@richmtb – watch out for dog poo!

I brought up bunny hopping really as just a way of saying, for us, er, not so naturally talented riders, that just because you can’t do a continuous flat land manual, it doesn’t you should have a sad face!  Being in my mid 40’s and defifnately not being the Fonz on a bike, it’s taken me lots of time to learn these skills, and i found that mixing things up helps, especially to keep my enthusiasm up!  For most people, spending half an hour trying to manual and failing can be really pretty disheartening, so my suggestion, is of course, practice your manuals, but don’t that be your be-all and end-all of tricks!

I think these threads on manualing can often be fraught with misunderstanding. To geex the manual may be all about maintaining balance on the rear wheel and he’s quite right. But often when people say they can’t manual what they mean is they are having trouble lifting the front high enough reliably. If you can’t do that then practicing an American bunny hop may be helpful.

I’m going to echo a few comments already said: thanks to the various contributors, this thread is a bit of encouragement, inspiration and bloody helpful!

I too practice on the commute when no one’s looking. I’ve got to a pretty consistent level of wheelie but have hit a bit of a rut with drifting off sideways and constantly chasing a falling wheel so spin out. Whoever said to push down through your heels and push the rear wheel forwards rather than try and pull the front wheel up / back – bloody genious! I’m now looping out far too easily but chasing the falling front wheel has gone within a couple of tries…I also feel less drifty off to the side. I can see how this will all translate to the manual and straight away I was getting the front much higher with a lot less effort.

I know it’s hard to describe / think about pushing through your heels when wheelying as you’re also pedaling but it did help – heavy heels, light hands if you like (which is the whole attach position / pumping thing anyway…penny drops).

Definitely more practice required but a big step made tonight. Thanks all!

Barnsley / Rotherham area if anyone wants to form a South Yorkshire support group 😉

I have trouble getting it up – any tips?

roverpig – The short lived front wheel lift you describe is still a manual. the initaition of a bunnyhop is different as there’s absolutley no intent to hold the wheel high. only to get it high enough before lifting the rear and pushing the bars forwards. So. No. Learning bunyhopwon’t help you manual and may actually create a few bad habits

Max – I’m a fair bit older than you and currently re-calibrating/learning a few basic techniques as I recently started riding an Emtb and the extra weight combined with the torquey power assist (it varies by mode) means my muscle memory is slighlty off compared with a far lighter non motor assisted bike. It’s never too late to learn new stuff. Granted some things come quicker to some than others.

Paul – I don’t push through my heels at all when wheelying (it’s all about steady pedal inputs to maintain balance/momentum and although I do when manualling. The push comes more from the hips and I don’t think about my heels at all. If you get me? I’m not a fan of the term “heavy heels/light hands” it’s misleading and creates a strange reliance on the technique (ie. used often when not needed, a bit like “outside pedal down while cornering”). But as you’ll have found out when you have reached the balance point in a wheelie your bars are very light, almost weightless in your paws. That’s when you know you’re balanced. I think it probably freaks a lot of beginners out.

Chasing a dropping front wheel and having to accelerate too much is usually a sign of lack of commitment/fear of looping out. To get over it. find a slight upwards incline and practice in a low gear wheelying up the incline as slowly as possible.

Once you’re really decent at Wheelies you should be able to brake or change gear and maintain the balance point and stay straight throughout.

I actually prefer to wheelie/manual brakeless and am the first to admit because of this my braking control during either isn’t actually all that great. If I cared. I’d be practicing coaster wheelies down my hill every night. but as it is I can manual down it fine and I find that more fun anyway.

I practiced the stepping off the back thing on my commute home this evening – with no one looking. Didn’t review any advised technique other than to step off the back and to avoid using my arms to pull up. Made me realise how strongly my leading foot is most definitely my leading foot. It was difficult to tell really what I was doing with my legs. Felt like I was pedalling with leading foot to raise the front wheel. Even if I started with left foot leading, still seemed like right foot doing the work. Back would fly up into the air after stepping off if I lead with right foot. With saddle lowered tried to keep just above seated position to start. Moving my weight all the way forwards and then explosively back. Difficult to tell exactly what I’m doing at this point.

Round back of quiet estate seemd a good place to practice wheelies (after raising saddle). Suddenly balance point came almost naturally. Managed to not chase the front wheel by pedalling for a whole 5 seconds.

Feeling motiviated.

The Fonz approves

*I do hope the irony behind me posting pics of a greasy middle aged man who spends far too much time hanging around trying to appear cool at a diner frequented by School kids is appreciated.

It’s my dream to be accepted by a  gang of youths who think ‘wheelies are where its at’.

If you can’t do that then practicing an American bunny hop may be helpful.

I’d add “not driving somewhere to ride, and only riding when you’ve driven somewhere” to that as well. Time on the bike, being comfy moving around on it and not minding falling off it or having a laugh at yourself all help. It’s ok to fall off and make an arse of yourself, just avoid the dog poo 😀

I don’t push through my heels at all when wheelying (it’s all about steady pedal inputs to maintain balance/momentum and although I do when manualling. The push comes more from the hips and I don’t think about my heels at all. If you get me? I’m not a fan of the term “heavy heels/light hands” it’s misleading and creates a strange reliance on the technique

Yeah ok. I’m not describing very well. I’m doing the push with legs / heels / feet / hips (whatever works in one’s brain) rather than rely on pulling the bars. It works / helps, thank you.

Same with the heavy heels / light hands comment, I’m well aware it’s not the be all and end all of riding and I can well believe some people get hung up on it but I’m comfortable with what that description means to me and how it translates to my riding and helped years ago when I went from “pedal/ brake/ pedal” approach to keeping better flow and pump.

Can we stop calling it an ‘American Bunny Hop’ please? It’s a bunny hop, not an american anything. The other crummy little my-feet-are-stuck-to-the-pedals hop is nonsense, let the Yanks claim that one.

Happy to stop talking about bunnyhops altogether on a thread about manualling. It’s just distracting.

Mmm… Bacon

@richmtb – watch out for dog poo!

We don’t have dog poo up here, it’s dug shite. Far worse….

Yeah Kayla. I don’t know why folk seem to think they need a purposeful destination to learn basic skills on their bike. Anywhere will do. The closer to home the better really so you can just take the bike out anytiime you’ve got 5 minutes free.

We don’t have dog poo up here, it’s dug shite. Far worse….

Ugh! Bring back old white crumbly, that’s what I say.

A good read. And far more relevant to learning to manual/wheelie than spending time learning to bunnyhop. 😉

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-risk-paradox-ryan-leech-mountain-biking.html

Sort of sums up what I like about riding mountainbikes and why I enjoy manualing so much.

Bringing this back to some thoughts relevant to learning to manual my E-mtb actually reminded of the the initial feelings felt when learning manuals for the first time all those years ago. Probably nowhere near how you guys just starting out must be feeling, just reminiscent and nostalgic. What I’m on about is the 15lb extra weight on the downtube and BB area (battery/motor) meaning the front wheel needs to be a fair bit higher at the balance point. Hugely so in comparison to my hardtail or BMX (which I like to manual with the front wheel really low to the ground). Learning something new or re-learning something differently is a good feeling.

😀

Is anyone keen on joining the Tooting Manual Club in South London?

We practice 4-5 times a week for 30 min at around 7pm, so far I’m the only member (practicing with others would make it less embarrassing).

Is there an obvious reason why TRYING to do a manual when going down an incline feels easier? Is it the speed?

Please note the trying, haven’t actually done one

Firstly. The slope causes the bike to accelerate naturally so the rear wheel has less to overcome to gain on the front while you push the rear wheel forwards.
Secondly. (but linked) a slope maitains momentum (whereas on the flat or uphill you’ll be losing momentum)

It doesn’t make a whole lot of difference anymore once you’re compitent. You jus naturally compensate for gradient (or lack of)

I think it’s more to do with the fact that you are accelerating rather than the speed itself. To lift the front you transfer your weight backwards. This produces a rearwards force that would tend to decellerate the bike. From the discussions above it would appear that what you should be doing is thrusting forwards with your legs, which resists that decelleration, but if the bike is actually accelerating forwards anyway then some of the work is being done for you. Note I’m just talking about the physics of the forces being applied to the bike here, not trying to make any comment about what you should being doing. I’ll leave that to the experts. I’m just suggesting a reason why it might be easier to do on a downslope, which is something I’ve noticed too.

EDIT: Damn, beaten too it 🙂

I built a manual machine and I can manual on it for days, it doesn’t translate to anything on the bike.

I knew it wouldn’t mimik the balance that I needed, it was slightly useful in stopping me from panicking about coming off the back.

I had a couple of bad experiences when I was younger where I winded myself.

Practice sessions do pay off, an hour on the manuals and I can get to 4m or so.

Yeah. Both of you need to stop overthinking and just practice more.

Thanks for the incline explanation, makes sense

Give yourselves goals. eg. nwmlarge. you’re getting 4m now, make a goal to go for 5, then 6, then 8, 10, 15 etc.
Mark out a start line, doesn’t need to be a physical line. whether it be a hedge row, lamp post, kerb stone, tar line in the road surface etc doesn’t matter. but something you’ll remember every time you go to your preferred practice spot.

What bike have you got? My old Hard Rock and Croix de Fer have always been impossible to get there, the Trailstar, 456, Rocket and even the Dirty Disco (to a point) are much easier. Borrow a BMX??

“Fear is the mind killer.” Use flats on a grassy, slight downhill, go past the tipping point so you become comfortable with the fact you can hop off the back if it goes too far, fall on yer erse so you learn it doesn’t really hurt that much!

(he says, like he’s actually any good 😀 )

Dude. I have 12 bikes. I can manual all but my roadbike. (but only because I refuse to slam it’s aero carbon seatpost into the carbon frame).

Don’t practice on a BMX unless you already ride a lot of BMX – BMXs are easier to raise the front wheel but actually harder to master manualling on than mtbs. Not easier.

An ideal bike to choose to learn/teach manuals for me would be a DJ/4X hardtail. but it’s not that important. But if you have a choice. choose one of your shorter wheelbase bikes with a nice short (50mm ish) stem rather than something long with a long stem. Once you have got the hang of manualling properly you can transfer it to any bike with a little re-calibration

He’s right, my vid was on my old 4x frame.

So how’s everyone getting on?

You are all still putting in practice aren’t you?

Been too busy at work unfortunately and youngest has been ill.

So how’s everyone getting on?

You are all still putting in practice aren’t you?

Ah, errrm, well, I decided I couldn’t be assed with keep changing the saddle height on the rigid 26″ I commute on. I’ve got an RSP Plummet to put back on it but absolutely needed a new remote for it, went for the Bontrager Drop Line. I just need to put it on which will happen this weekend and then the manual madness will commence on my commutes home from work.

Hahaha… if you think altering the seatpost height on a bike is too much trouble I’m not sure you’re going to have the commitment required to learn manuals. I sincerely hope to be proven very very wrong though. 😉

Bump for the dude asking about manuals.

Ps. Who perceived and can now manny like a boss?

Would love to say yes but no. Not being practising enough.Been practicing bunny hops more. Getting interested in basic trials stuff, like in this video. If I manage to get any of that dialed then manuals might become a logical progression.

still can’t manual, was doing ok, till I demonstrated your stepping off the back advice to my wife on the road, only I got my clipless shoes caught on the flat pedals of her bike…. cracked several ribs and still can’t get properly comfortable at night to sleep 8 weeks later 😉

Is it bad to smile at that story?

I still can’t wheelie, still practising that on my MTB when I get out on that. I can get a couple of pedal strokes in if I do a good one

Barely ridden my bike over the summer 😥

Moved house and need to find somewhere to practice out of sight of the local youths.

yeah, I would have laughed, if I could have drawn breath :), probably not helped by the fact I’d been diagnosed with osteoporosis a couple of weeks earlier 🙁

I often doss about on my bike in the street after fixing or fettling it.  But it’s quite a steep hill which is a PITA.