Could he have done it without F. W. deKlerk?

Done what?

Perhaps he should have spent his life trolling a mountain bike forum instead? 🙂

don’t you work woppit? you seem to be on here a lot.

What he said 🙄

Done what?

Achieved a bloodless coup.

[musnt feed the trol………. arrrgghh to late………]

yes, if hed had to wait till he was 95 hed have found away with or without deklerk

despite the best efforts of those on the right such as thatcher and her tory chums

Achieved a bloodless coup.

He didn’t. He won a free election. FW de Klerk of course played a significant role in that, which is why he shared the 1993 Nobel Peace Prize with Mandela.

I’m glad this thread was started, otherwise I wouldn’t have seen Kimbers post.

Well, the incumbent regime could have dug it’s heels in, become increasingly isolationist and slowly and surely headed toward a short, bloody and divisive civil war.

So no, he couldn’t have done it (in the way he did) without deKlerk.

To be fair to Cameron (and I hate doing that) there’s some doubt about whether he was in the FCS.

When David Cameron latches on….

Yes. I felt a little bit of sick coming up when I watched his eulogy on the News (on the BBC) this morning.

Could he BE any more sincere?

Edit. Unfair.

I’m glad this thread was started, otherwise I wouldn’t have seen Kimbers post.

Yes, I assumed that as his political upbringing was during the time when the party he supported was most entwined with Botha’s South Africa, there would be some personal involvement.

But, like FW de Klerk, perhaps he was prepared to put aside once passionately-held views and strive for reconciliation…. 🙂

Wow. Using the death of one of the men of our time to have a cheap dig at the Tories. Classy…….

wrecker – Member

Wow. Using the death of one of the men of our time to have a cheap dig at the Tories. Classy…….

Cheap dig?

No, he’s merely reminding people what the Tories genuinely believe.
Does it make you feel uncomfortable?
It should.

I however, genuinely feel uncomfortable having been drawn in to one of Woppit’s ‘hate’ threads.

Here’s an idea Woppit – try being pleasant to people on the internet.
Once you’ve got over the initial shock you might just like it.

actually I can well believe that cameron was shallow enough to not really care about politics at uni beyond any benefit to his career, unlike someone like Gove who was very active in the FCS at the time, hes definately a true believer.

but a couple of months after the Arab spring had begun in Tunisia, Cameron was happily jetting of to such lovely regimes as Bahrain, Saudi, Egypt etc where sought assurances that the arms he was selling them wouldnt be used to repress civillians, only terrorists…….. how did that work out?

edit:
oh im sorry wrecker did thatcher not label mandella and the ANC terrorists lending credibility and support to apartheid?
you can try and re-write history if you like though

No, he’s merely reminding people what the Tories genuinely believe.
Does it make you feel uncomfortable?

I think we all know what the Tories believe. Every other thread on here seems to point it out in case anyone forgets.
Why should it make me feel uncomfortable? It’s nowt to do with me chief.

JY, I’m not trying to rewrite history. This is a time of mourning for a great man, not an opportunity to score cheap political points.

Why should it make me feel uncomfortable? It’s nowt to do with me chief.

I beg to differ – otherwise you wouldn’t have posted this, would you?

Wow. Using the death of one of the men of our time to have a cheap dig at the Tories. Classy…….

Rusty, you’re not making any sense at all.

Those that make digs at Mandela’s opponents pre-release seem to misunderstand his greatness. His ability to forgive his opponents won over many of them to his cause and allowed him to achieve what he had so long worked for.

ahh a tory bashing thread, I’m no tory but I’m out.

Oh good, we’ve politicised the death of Mandela and descended into arguing onto the Internet. Way to go guys.

buck53 – Member

Oh good, we’ve politicised the death of Mandela and descended into arguing onto the Internet. Way to go guys.

I think we need to see him in a political context.
The hypocricy inherent in the film footage of those who hated him crying crocodile tears is disgusting.

wrecker – Member

Rusty, you’re not making any sense at all.

Sorry.

And apologies to Woppit too – it’s a perfectly valid political question. My comment was unecessary.

I should try being more pleasant to people on the internet – I might just like it.

In the wider African context Mandela showed that it is possible for whites and blacks to live together. Imagine what would have happened if Mandela had encouraged a war of vengeance against whites. South Africa has its problems like any country but generally it works and there’s reasonable peace and security, unlike some other coutries on the continent. I hope that the generation of new South Africans who Mandela inspired will grow up and become the leaders of the future. His old enemies are now dying out and in hiding in some of the conservative and Afrikkaaner areas and I hope their attitudes will die with them.

my fault I stuck the mandella pic up

ok ill rephrase it
yes he couldve done it, despite all the opposition he faced from within and without south africa, I think by the 1980s the (western?) world would no longer turn a blind eye to something so obviously wrong as apartheid

Mandela? Well look at Mugabe for what could have gone wrong.

I listened to Mandela making a speech at Wembley stadium when he came over after his release. He began by saying “For ten decades now…”

Due to his heavy Seth Efrican eccent, the people around me wondered who the “ten dickheads” were he was talking about… 😀

Apologies from me too. Maybe I should have just kept my mouth shut.
A truly great man in the truest sense of the word.

growing up in SA during this time when many preached hate and scared the minority into believing that there would be a vengful backlash, there was one man, who had more reason than most to want revenge, who stood up and not only preached peace and reconciliation but enacted it every single day for the rest of his life. He provided me and everyone I knew with hope and promise that we could survive and thrive following the most cruel of circumstance. The world is a worse place without him but he can now finally rest. A man who literally gave his entire life for South Africa and for its people. His personal sacrifice allowed me and many oppurtunity and the freedom to have a choice. Something many felt we no longer deserved as a result of the sins of my forefathers. I can never thank him enough for what he did for me, my family, my children, my grandchildren and more. Lots will be said of him in the next few days but tonight I will raise my glass in toast to a flawed man who showed the humilty to strive to be more, to be better every single day of his life, not for himself or his own personal interest but for his love of the his country and those that lived there.

A truly great man in the truest sense of the word.

Yup.

The support for Mandela, his force of personality, his achievements and willingness to forgive were gifts to both his supporters and his enemies.

He gave people a sense of focus and a determination not to screw things up.

He also gave some thoroughly unplesant people an easy exit, an amazingly pragmatic act which enabled the success of such a huge handover of power.