+1 Northwind… horses for courses.

Yup, +1 Northwind

Northwind:

i’ve searched the entire internet and haven’t found a ‘nailed it’ jpeg that adequately expresses just how completely spot-on your post is.

someone should print off your essay, and staple-gun it to the desk at the next BC meeting.

i’ve searched the entire internet and haven’t found a ‘nailed it’ jpeg that adequately expresses just how completely spot-on your post is.

I’ll +1 that, superb post that captures things more eloquently than I could have ever managed!

I appreciate that from an industry point of view, the ideal sport is the one you watch on telly and read about in magazines, that pays salaries and creates sales and rockstars. But from our point of view, the ideal sport is the one we actually do.

That’s not the impression I got from speaking to people in the industry.

We interviewed various racers and industry types in Finale after the EWS, here’s their thoughts…

State of the enduro nation – nine views on where it’s heading

It took off because people tried it and loved it, and raved to their mates about it, and people kept putting them on. Where it changed direction, it was because that was where it wanted to go, not because that was where it had to. A natural thing, driven by the enthusiasm of riders and inspired organisers. The cliche that “it’s just like riding with your mates” is what defines it, and imo anything that takes us away from that is bad for the sport.

That is spot on IMO.

The joy of UK enduro is the way it’s grown from the bottom up

Not being contrary for the sake of it, but aside from a handful of events like those Mash-Up races, hasn’t UK enduro developed from the top down?

Parr’s successful series have inspired other promoters to have a go, with grassroots events developing after the national series.

I think it’s quite fitting that the UKGE series should be a step up in fitness and technical challenge from local events – and perhaps from what it used to be.

Developed from the top down my frackin bottom, if you don’t mind me saying.

I am pretty sure that we (Inners MTB) put on some of the first Enduros in the UK. (I think the Kona Mash-Up at Glentress, which was like an Enduro apart from the fact that nobody got any times, might have been before us, I am pretty sure we pre-dated UKGE)

And Northwind is right, we developed the format using what we had available in terms of tracks and what riders wanted.

Dan the genius cracked the timing using dibbers and the rest is history.

Well said Northwind.

At this rate in a few years we will have downhill races on the Rampage course, enduros’s being held at Champerey, XC races in the Tweed Valley and sod the newbies, if they ain’t good enough they don’t get to race.

chakaping – Member

Not being contrary for the sake of it, but aside from a handful of events like those Mash-Up races, hasn’t UK enduro developed from the top down?

i understood his ‘bottom’ to refer to the level of talent/skill/speed required.

back in the day, if you could pootle around a red run, you could have a crack at an Enduro. The best still excelled, but everyone could join in.

it’s maybe not quite as easy as that now.

or at least, that’s how i read it.

ahwiles – OK that might make a bit more sense to me.

But as the discipline grows surely it makes sense that newbies start at more local events and the national series becomes more challenging?

I like doing the odd XC race but I wouldn’t dream of entering a national series event, even if I’d magically accrued the points required.

I like doing the odd XC race but I wouldn’t dream of entering a national series event, even if I’d magically accrued the points required.

No points needed unless you mean the elite category?

But as the discipline grows surely it makes sense that newbies start at more local events and the national series becomes more challenging?

I like doing the odd XC race but I wouldn’t dream of entering a national series event, even if I’d magically accrued the points required.

^^This.

Just because the national series have stated they want to raise the bar and bring the UK series in line with other national series, doesn’t mean the discipline is becoming “exclusive”.

As for Enrico’s comments about inclusion and participation, I took them to mean participation in the whole event vibe, things like the kids coming down to meet riders, the guided rides with pros, the people from town coming into the event village etc.

I am pretty sure that we (Inners MTB) put on some of the first Enduros in the UK. (I think the Kona Mash-Up at Glentress, which was like an Enduro apart from the fact that nobody got any times, might have been before us, I am pretty sure we pre-dated UKGE)

Apologies hels, I think in my mind the Scottish races are a bit separate because you’ve had access to such good tracks from the start.

From my POV, the best UKGE I did was at Inners and I’d like to see more of the rounds offer that level of challenge.

chakaping – Member

surely it makes sense that newbies start at more local events and the national series becomes more challenging?

maybe, perhaps, but now i’m in danger of playing the ‘what would Northwind say?’ game…

Enduro has taken off like a rocket because people (even slow duffers like me) can and do join in, thanks to Enduro we’re not spectators anymore, we’re racers, and that’s awesome.

“enduro is in a place that downhill would love to be, with great participation and buzz, new events, sold out races… And yet enduro seems to be moving towards where downhill has ended up, with elitism and barriers to entry… It’s at risk of becoming “not for us” to most people just as downhill has… As soon as the image of enduro becomes pros, impossible courses, special bikes and full face helmets it becomes “not what we do”, something you read about other people doing.”

Another +1 from me for Northwind’s thoughts, sums up my feelings entirely.

Hopefully other organisers will continue to put on Enduro races without the mandatory FF rule.

Yeah yeah I know, nobody cares about Scotland or Women’s racing, we have learnt to accept it !

Just out of interest when were the first “gravity” enduro races held in the UK?
I raced the Avalanche enduros at Keilder and Ae in 2009 were there any before them?

Dave Morgan did a Stage race back in the 90’s for the SW series’s. Does that count?

Yeah yeah I know, nobody cares about Scotland or Women’s racing, we have learnt to accept it !

Do you want a whale to go with that chip your shoulder?

Bloody brilliant post Northwind! I found myself nodding along to stuff I’d never really considered until you said it.

Got to add my +1 to Nothwind, my thoughts exactly.

Yep +1 for Northwind

Nicely put Northwind.

However I don’t have a problem with any race organiser demanding a certain level of protection – they’re the ones arranging insurance and first aid. I’d rather they don’t ask for full-faces on night stages though because I don’t have a light mount for that hat! 😉

Just out of interest when were the first “gravity” enduro races held in the UK?
I raced the Avalanche enduros at Keilder and Ae in 2009 were there any before them?

I did the Saab Salomon Avalanche Trophy that came to Glentress in summer 2007. Standard enduro format as in transitions and mainly-down timed stages.

Didn’t they have the USP of not managing to actually time anything two years on the trot.

Its a good post Northwind, but downhill still has plenty of acessible grassroots races that sell out all the time,with a great atmos and even in the topographically challenged southeast, my facebook feed is full of races, ,tidworth, porc, gravity project, Aston etc. Plenty of races for the little people. Were talking 1 minute courses on any kind of slope you can build a berm or jump on and yet…
Dh races have BC regs, need armour full faces, and just as pricey bikes and we go on to dominate the World Cup, men, women, juniors and fort bill voted best round every year, and uplift costs an arm and a leg but FOD, cwmdon, antur,BPW etc book up well in advance.

Enduro is a brilliant format, its great because it can link up the the sweet bits of dh or single track in any part of the country, no matter how flat.
I think its plenty strong enough to survive some standardisation, yeah it’d be a pita riding the transitions in a full face but it’s hardly gonna kill the sport overnight.

In fact just like enduro in general has been driving improvement in bikes and armour (650b aside) we’ll end up with better vented better protected helmets than ever (troy Lee are have a super duper new enduro ff on the way)
And OnOne will have a bargain parachute/switchblade style lid out before you can say ‘enduro specific’

I still have my 2008 kona mashup t shirt somewhere. They did manage to cock up the timing two years in a row.

That was an enduro before the rest of the uk really knew what endure was.

The great thing about enduro is that you can turn up and race on the bike you ride week in week out, in the same riding gear and helmet you always ride in.
Who normally goes out riding in a full face helmet?

^^^ i do. its just a helmet. less people will get hurt. its not a big deal

^^^ er, so do I. I have no desire to ruin my film star good looks + the new met parachute is light, well vented & breathes well.
Personally I see no need for open helmets.

Well as a counter point I never ride in a full face way too hot and insulating from the surroundings.

Me neither unless there’s an uplift.
I can’t imagine riding 30km in a full face helmet no matter how well vented and light weight it is.

Oh and Nothwinds post deserves another +1.

Hey I did one of those Mash up races with a mate, I quite liked the format actually, there were no cut offs or anything, you just turned up at the start of each section and ride it when you fancied, you could have another go if you cocked up a stage and you could ride them in any order if you preferred…
Unfortunately yes the timing was utter bobbins.

Aside from the timing element it really was just an overpriced trundle round a trail centre… Happy days.

Was that really the first go anyone in the UK had at “Gravity Enduro”? Seems a shade more serious now…

The first uk ones I know of were 1997/98? NACC events organised multistage dh races (7 stages) in the sw. Packed out races riding the bike between each stage. Its nothing new really

Surely if FF helmets are mandtaory for Enduro, then this means the courses are too much like a DH course and maybe too difficult?

Enduro should be about all-round MTB ability, not just ‘how fast can I go down a downhill course’, which should mean slow technical parts and even some up-hill technical obstacles. Some of the X-Fusion Enduro-1 rounds have this in them.

We should be given the choice to make up or own minds. Mandatory helmets – of course, but having to shell out even more money for a sweatbox that restricts your vision – hmmmmmmm

(point to note: I have a full face, used for uplift and Alps – but wear an open face (sometimes with goggles, sometimes glasses) for #Enduro)

Surely if FF helmets are mandtaory for Enduro, then this means the courses are too much like a DH course and maybe too difficult?

Why does it mean that? You could make FF compulsory for road racing, but that doesn’t actually make roads any more dangerous, or imply they’re too dangerous as is.

Enduro is a moveable feast, and that’s the problem, some are very technical and FF would be wise, some aren’t, and folk like choice.

Surely if FF helmets are mandtaory for Enduro, then this means the courses are too much like a DH course and maybe too difficult?

No it doesn’t, if the courses were easy then there would be no differentiation between the top riders.

Enduro should be about all-round MTB ability, not just ‘how fast can I go down a downhill course’, which should mean slow technical parts and even some up-hill technical obstacles. Some of the X-Fusion Enduro-1 rounds have this in them.

We should be given the choice to make up or own minds. Mandatory helmets – of course, but having to shell out even more money for a sweatbox that restricts your vision – hmmmmmmm

If you want a less technical test of all round MTB ability, why not race XC? This is what I don’t get. We have XC, and DH as two disciplines, then someone decided to create Enduro as a series of mostly DH stages with untimed climbs/XC linking them. There are plenty of technical XC cousrses/races (Ok, there’s also Sherwood Pines) where you ability to do technical climbs and decents are tested, if you want a less technical alternative to Enduro then why not race XC?

Whilst the flatter ‘not really enduro’ races may be popular, if they want to use open face helemets then maybe they need to come up with a new name to differentiate themselves. Becasue like you I wouldn’t ride a fractured Xc course in a FF helmet, but then I’d probably not ride it at all, I’d rather race the whole lap.

There probably is room for both formats to co-exist. But rules need to be made/set for one reason or another and at the top end FF is probably the right way to go. Is there the same argumet in DH racing that Fort William needs FF helemts, but Aston Hill doesn’t because it’s not as Gnarr?

thisisnotaspoon – Member

if you want a less technical alternative to Enduro then why not race XC?

Because the 2 sports are completely different? That doesn’t seem too hard to grasp.

What people are talking about here (I think) is offering something easier, but still recognisably an enduro. So gravity-fed, descent oriented, skills focused, just less hard. Heh, like an early UKGE 😉 But nothing at all like XC racing.