We should get your FIL down to sort out all these tradesmen with shitty old vans. I’ve got a Euro 6 for getting the shopping in, so should you.

According to the north-west expert on vehicle ownership in the trades, Chapaking, most tradesmen are already driving compliant vehicles. Then you pop up with your website link suggesting proof of such, which isn’t in the link or the point you made and the obvious points you are now making.

May I suggest when you respond to a specific question on behalf of another forum member you should read the preceding comments.

Anyone got a Transporter shuttle for sale as temporary measure until the goalposts move again?

Chapaking didn’t post the link. But don’t let that stop you.

Nice to see some vigour on the forum.

Well **** me what do we have here the reanimated corpse of Barry Chuckle showing off his NVQ level 2.

Dude soooo much anger and tired clichés.

I’d ask if your OK but meh

What has that go to do with anything. Breathing pollutes What next a punishment tax for breathing ?

Good god man don’t give them ideas!

I can see it now, a rebranded Poll Tax. The ideologues, shills and stooges would be out in force on the internet, telling people how it’s nothing, only x amount per day, easy to setup via Apple Pay and how it’s only fair all adults should contribute to improve society!

Now’s probably the best time to give it another whirl under the auspice of saving the environment. No one would fight it, they’d roll over and justify it.

Don’t forget mouth breathers only have to pay 50%

There’s a park and ride car park under the junction of M60 and A580 near the end of the M61 on the north side of Manchester.

@tthew I’d always wondered about that.

FWIW I don’t understand why private cars are allowed inside the inner ring road – no justification whatsoever for private cars on Deansgate. And maybe now Leese has gone…

I had a look at the government site linked here and our 2004 petrol Astra estate is surprisingly exempt on all and my 80’s car only falls foul of the Birmingham charge (which suits me).
I can see a lot of tradesmen picking up cheap petrol estates and MPV’s for van use.

FWIW I don’t understand why private cars are allowed inside the inner ring road – no justification whatsoever for private cars on Deansgate.

Manchester City Council make millions every year from parking fees and fines. There’s every justification from a financial point of view for having cars in the city centre. This isn’t unique to Manchester either, this is nationwide. Cities are trying to get rid of cars but at the same time desperate for the revenue they bring.

Manchester City Council make millions every year from parking fees and fines

True enough, though IIRC CoM outsourced a lot of their parking to NCP, and across GM paragon enforcement is… questionable.

Cameras and a specific congestion charge for anyone daft enough to drive inside the inner ring road would bring in a few quid, and I don’t buy the ‘2008 vote argument’ because frankly Lab can do whatever they like in Manchester and still control the council.

We need to get rid of nobbers in the city centre with high powered cars – nearly got run over last night as a nob in an M3 decided to try and jump a trafic queue on the wrong side of the road. Booted it in the wet and the back end slid all over. The wife is now wearing a big bruise on her arm where I dragged her and me out of the way.

Looks like there’s been a bit of work on Deansgate today: https://twitter.com/ourmanonthem62/status/1470135418670788612

From Burnham today:

I am pleased that Greater Manchester councils have just voted to refer the Clean Air Zone back to the Government

GM has tried in good faith to make the Government’s legal direction work. However, changes in the vehicle market mean it is impossible to proceed on the current basis without causing real hardship to some of our residents.

We remain committed to tackling illegal levels of air pollution in GM as soon as possible.

This decision opens up the space for urgent, joint discussions with the Government about potential changes to make the scheme fair for everyone.I am listening to people’s concerns and will always stand up for GM. I am not the final decision-maker but will do everything I can, working with Government, to get this to the right place.

I know it’s difficult but bear with us and I will keep you posted on progress.

Hmmm.

So, DEFRA have told Burnham he needs to have a charging Cat C scheme in the city centre and that a non-charging scheme is unrealistic.

Anyone have any thoughts as to what happens next?

So, DEFRA have told Burnham he needs to have a charging Cat C scheme in the city centre and that a non-charging scheme is unrealistic.

Linky to more details?

Manchester Evening News has the story

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greater-manchesters-clean-air-zone-24120914

I’ve got a Euro6 VW van on order since last November, but it won’t be built till 2023 given current lead times.

Makes much more sense than the massive area they were covering, if you need to go into the inner ring road commercially youll need to factor it in or upgrade (taxis). Can’t see how a non charging solution would work. Personally i think Burnham forced this outcome and wasted millions to make the point the government forced this on Machester originally. No one has come out of it well and the congestion continues to get worse due to poorly thought out routes in and out of the city designed to maximise congestion.

Personally i think Burnham forced this outcome and wasted millions to make the point the government forced this on Manchester originally.

He’s a fairly shrewd political operator – unlike Khan who is taking the flak for cutting bus services and hasn’t managed to loudly and constantly state that it’s the Tory Government that have put TfL in that position.

Yes, it’s money wasted and there was a forest of signage went up but I think he had to let it get to that point before the outcry over the fare zone became too much for the Government to ignore.

Yes, it’s money wasted and there was a forest of signage went up but I think he had to let it get to that point before the outcry over the fare zone became too much for the Government to ignore.

People had forgotten / not heard about the incoming CAZ up until the signs went up.

The perimeter was too big as proposed but I can see it happening inside the M60.

I wish someone could come up with a workable scheme for ELR to become a commuter line to reduce the burden on the A56

But nutty that it would’ve started here

So, GMCA appear to have signed off a non-charging scheme. Not sure why they’re expecting HMG to agree to this when they’ve made it clear it won’t fly…

Think the only realistic scheme is a charging zone in central Manchester/Salford. Also strongly suspect this is what Burnham wants, but he also wants HMG to mandate it to deflect the political fallout.

Massive waste of money so far.

Aye. I’d also love to know if there’s any other city that’s successfully implemented a non-charging CAZ, that has actually improved air quality.

The cynic would suggest that the people doing the latest business case for GM were locked in a room and told they couldn’t leave until they’d made the maths work.

Massive waste of money so far and no chance of a non charging zone making any difference, we’ve got that already, its the status quo. Manchester can cut emmssions by making the traffuc fliw and stopping people using the residential areas as rat runs. Pretty much everything implemented in the last 10 years has increased congestion and therefore pollution. The exception is some if the better cycling provision but that’s not very wide spread.

Aye. I’d also love to know if there’s any other city that’s successfully implemented a non-charging CAZ, that has actually improved air quality.

Nottingham.
They were told to implement a CAZ but – because the council own and run all the bus services in house, it’s not privatised like almost everywhere else – they were able to renew the bus fleet and also do a load of work with taxis (EV grants etc). Most of the council vehicles are electric as well.

That (believe it or not) brought the air quality back within limits without having to go through the time, expense, consultations etc of a charging CAZ.

Manchester can cut emmssions by making the traffuc fliw and stopping people using the residential areas as rat runs.

To go off down a rabbit hole, there’s a complete lack of political will to filter rat runs (some of which is not surprising in given e.g. rioting in Rochdale and allegedly death threats to councillors in Oldham) when it’s been suggested. I think of 10 TfGM funded traffic management schemes, only one has made it to full implementation.

The only way traffic flow is going to improve is by reducing the number of cars on the road, and if you think a CAZ is politically toxic in Manchester, a congestion charge is worse. We’re still paying for the referendum on that…

The only way traffic flow is going to improve is by reducing the number of cars on the road, and if you think a CAZ is politically toxic in Manchester, a congestion charge is worse. We’re still paying for the referendum on that…

Very much this ^^.

Every week at around this time of year (and often when there’s a big match or concert as well), Manchester Evening News will have a story about how it took [family] 4hrs to even get out of the multi-story car park due to absolute gridlock outside and then calls for something to be done about it.

So a suggestion is made that perhaps [family] could think about using P/T and [family] has a complete meltdown that THEY should be the ones expected to do something!