I was late in the other night from cycling, not mega late but I had gotten two punctures and ended up getting in the house after 11. The wife said something that made me think and it’s not something I had ever considered before. It was along the lines of ‘women wouldn’t be out that late alone’ and she means out, alone, in the dark, far from home.

Many many times I’ve under estimated the length of time it would take for a ride and found myself in the middle of no-where on a route I’ve not done before, peering at the garmin to check if I’m on the right path, one time over Gradbach I got back to the car at 12.30am! lol. When this happens I actually consider it fun, what actual harm is going to befall me? I might get a mechanical and end up walking back to the car but even out walking in the dark at 2 or even 4am, what does it matter? I can alk to the car, I’ve got a phone and money to ring for a cab if really needed. (obviously falling off alone and damaging myself is a different matter but I’m not talking about that here.)

Turns out most (every?) women feels anxious about going out alone and would never go out alone late or after dark. My wife says when she was younger even with a friends out together they would feel anxious walking back to the house from the pub or event. I dunno what I’m trying to say here, maybe just next time you’re out alone in the dark by yourself having a good time consider not everyone is able to do so.

Just tell her not to worry, you were with the other doggers.

I’m sure there are some males who avoid such behaviour due to not feeling safe.

My GF is always worried about riding through woods etc by herself even when I mansplain to her that no-one is going to be lurking in some dark, cold woods just on the off chance. I can totally appreciate though why anyone would be nervous about riding/walking through urban areas alone – although judging by what I read in the local papers, a single bloke walking alone is just as (if not more) likely to be set upon by roving packs of feral yoot.

Statistics would say that as a man you would in more danger of being assaulted than a woman.

Maybe its a perceived risk rather than a real one.

Pah! Excuses. Plenty of women out solo all over the place on adventures. Maybe the privilege is hers for having an excuse people will easily fall for to stay in rather than go put in some effort and confront her fears. If a man were to try that he’d be told to man up etc.

Yeah but as a male you were probably a violence slut that dressed a bit aggressively and deserved or were actively looking for the violence that befell you.

from the many nightrides i frequent i always find the threat of wherewolves keeps me going.

Pretty much yes.

There are loads of things I do without thinking too much, my Wife wouldn’t.

It seems madness, but she has to do a little risk assessment to be alone at high risk times and places. Places she feels are high risk don’t even register to me.

Some of it is personal risk aversion, but most of it not, the world seems to work differently for her than me. People just talk and act differently to her when she’s alone than if I’m there.

There was an interesting thread on Twitter some time back about a husband/wife – wife was forever leaving their car empty of petrol, was a constant annoyance to him. And when it came to a head, it came out that she just didn’t feel safe on forecourts, and was always worried about being harassed or attacked, and avoided filling up the car for tht reason. There’s a whole other world out there from that perspective, all kinds of scenarios like the one the OP mentions, but also more everyday, seemingly innocuous ones that can be scary for some folks, especially those who have actually had experience of harassment(or worse), which makes their fears very rational. Doesn’t have to be “violence” to be unpleasant or scary.

rapists and murderers lurking around every corner!

Its actually quite insulting to normal women assuming that are all scared to do anything.

And the one thing they’re not scared of, is the one thing that frightens me the most… DRIVING!

from the many nightrides i frequent i always find the threat of wherewolves keeps me going.

It’s not the wherewolves you want to worry about, it’s the herewolves.

Grimes summed this up quite nicely in her video for her song oblivion.

Grimes – oblivion

PS. If anyone knows how to embed that as a video please point me in the right direction.

Statistics would say that as a man you would in more danger of being assaulted than a woman.

Not sexual assault, or just from walking along the road.

Its actually quite insulting to normal women assuming that are all scared to do anything.

Who said that? Apart from you.

Statistics would say that as a man you would in more danger of being assaulted than a woman.

Maybe its a perceived risk rather than a real one.

Do those statistics take into account the probable fact that more men are putting themselves in those situations and more women are avoiding them (as in the OP and his wife)

I suspect not ?

I remember a Twitter thread along the lines of what would you do if the opposite sex didn’t exist/weren’t around for a set time period.. The men’s answers were the predictable p0rn, m*sturbate, drink etc.. a huge proportion of the women answered along the lines of “Go for a late night run”.. something which most guys probably take for granted..

a huge proportion of the women answered along the lines of “Go for a late night run”.. something which most guys probably take for granted..

Do these women avoid late night runs because of the statistics that show that a huge proportion of women get attacked/assaulted when out late at night? Or is it because society/media/upbringing has conditioned them think that they are not safe in these situations and there is always an attacker (man) waiting for them around every corner?
As a parent I see the same thing with paedophiles. Parents are scared to death that there are podophiles everywhere just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on their kids the second they are out of sight

joeydeacon

I remember a Twitter thread along the lines of what would you do if the opposite sex didn’t exist/weren’t around for a set time period.

Yeah, read that also. It’s not a case of women being incapable or irrational, but what the OP said, that some stuff that men can take for granted just isn’t the case for women.

rapists and murderers lurking around every corner!

Rings true for me. My regular night ride in winter is up into the Downs, it’s not that remote but on a winter’s night there is zero chance of meeting anyone and a rapist or murderer would have to wait every night for decades for a suitable victim.

I ride it. My wife won’t. [1]

So is the male privilege being able to make a rational assessment about risk?

And the one thing they’re not scared of, is the one thing that frightens me the most… DRIVING!

This. My wife is terrified walking the kids near water where I’d argue it would be almost impossible for them to come to any harm, yet a busy A road holds no fear for her at all yet one false move would be certain death.

Again, is the male privilege being able to make a rational assessment about risk?

In an urban environment I guess it’s different but I’m pretty sure men are at greater risk that women in that context. …and even if rape is the concern do all rapists have to be heterosexual? I doubt it.

As a parent I see the same thing with paedophiles. Parents are scared to death that there are podophiles everywhere just waiting for the opportunity to pounce on their kids the second they are out of sight

This too. It’s all about peados when cars and obesity are the very real danger kids actually face day in day out.

[1] I’ll be honest, I am actually terrified doing the ride, but it’s not a rational fear, it’s a ‘monsters under the bed’ fear. I dread a puncture in a spooky bit.

Do these women avoid late night runs because of the statistics that show that a huge proportion of women get attacked/assaulted when out late at night? Or is it because society/media/upbringing has conditioned them think that they are not safe in these situations and there is always an attacker (man) waiting for them around every corner?

Or a stream of first hand experiences where they’re made to feel unsafe and/or uncomfortable when it’s not dark, and they’re not alone

I was a police officer for 10 years and often patrolled alone at night so I don’t think that I am in anyway a naive or particularly scaredy woman but I avoid being out alone late at night.

I don’t realistically think that there is a rapist hiding and waiting in the trees on the off chance that a lone woman will appear; it’s just that a woman, alone at night, seems to attract nob-heads. Should you be out by yourself at night every drunk/druggy/nob-head feels that you are clearly desperately lonely and therefore obliged to be their new best friend. Often they can be quite unpleasant and aggressive when you decide to carry on with your planned evening.

Is this male privilege being talked about a new thing.. or has it been the way since the cave men?

“UGH Gugh ugh” =”I’m not going out there alone.. there might be a big woolly mammoth!”
“Ug” = “Don’t worry dear, I’ll go”

Its actually quite insulting to normal women assuming that are all scared to do anything.

Perhaps but like the OP I definitely recognise the same thing from my missus. It’s so bad that in the winter she won’t walk home from town at like 5:00pm, it gets dark earlier and due to one 30ish yard pedestrianised railway bridge on the route that has high sides so pedestrians can’t be seen from the nearby road, apparently that’s where they’ll get her…

I joke that she needs to dial back on her DM reading, and that despite the news the world isn’t actually full of Murderers and Rapists that only come out after the sun sets…
But fear of the post sunset world has been drummed into her at some point and she can’t get past it.

I’m quite happy to be out “late” either in the countryside or in town where (statistically) I’m apparently more likely to be mugged and murdered to bits as a male.

Maybe there is a bit of “everyday sexism” at work here, where (hyperbole ahead) Boys are taught to be “brave” and not be afraid of the dark/bullies/anything and value confidence in the face of uncertainty, while girls are maybe taught to a bit more meek, cautious and that if they’re out late ‘something bad’ will happen. Those behaviours learned as children carry on through to adulthood and worst of all get passed on to your own kids…

Again, is the male privilege being able to make a rational assessment about risk?

No it more like being so (over?)confident in your own judgement and lacking in empathy, to the point where that you simply dismiss other people’s concerns as being due to their irrational, fear driven nature and try to infer that they are unable to make reasonable, logical assessments of a given situation because they have a Lady Brain…

In an urban environment I guess it’s different but I’m pretty sure men are at greater risk that women in that context. …and even if rape is the concern do all rapists have to be heterosexual? I doubt it.

Are they all male (let’s extend it to perpetrators of sexual assault in Scotland). I and other men I know have been subject to varying levels of unwanted attention from both men and women out and about. 3/4 of the times for me it was in a kilt, 3/4 of the time it was women. For him I only know of one specific occasion (though there had been others) and it was in a kilt, with a large number of women – but that’s OK cos we’re asking for it if we show a bit of knee, right?

None of these incidents occurred out in the woods, where the main risk is definitely alien abduction and monsters.

I initially read that DM as Danger Mouse…

Carry on.

I’m a 6’4 bloke. But I’m going to admit…I do get a bit freaked out in the woods alone in the dark!

But then I can’t watch scary films either haha!

Most women first experience some kind of sexual assault (doesn’t have to be physical to count) before they get to secondary school. Men don’t.
Most of the women i know its the harassment or unwanted attention that they are avoiding, most men don’t even see this as a problem or worse as something real.

As a husband and father of 2 daughters (and a son) there is absolutely things my wife and girls think about every day which would not occur to me if we had not talked about it.
Where to park in the car park so it is light, does the button on the key fob open all the doors or just the drivers, how can I walk the dog avoiding that dark alleyway?

The most surprising one was one of my daughters carrying her keys with the house key sticking out of her fist so if someone jumped out she could hit them with it and run.

There are absolutely things I do that they would decide not to (riding bikes in the woods after dark
being one great example).

Just stick to the roads, stay off the moors and it’ll be grand.

Tosh in my experience. I ride year round on my own. Out in the woods in the middle of winter I’m as likely to encounter lone female runners as lone male ones these days.

Our younger daughter, 17, has a job at a Indy pizza place in town, 25 mins walk from home. She finishes at 10.30pm every Fri and Saturday night. I walk down and meet her half way, purely for my peace of mind, she insists quite vehemently that she is quite safe walking home on her own, and actually enjoys it.

I love the fact that she has such confidence, albeit with a bit of youthful naivety. It’s also very noticeable that about 80% of the people I pass, going into and back from town, at that time are young women on their own. Therefore I also love the fact that I live in a city where young women appear to be totally comfortable walking around on their own after dark. How common this is elsewhere I don’t know.

Some of you come across as completely clueless ****, if you don’t mind me saying say so. The world is very different for men and women and most of that is the fault of certain men, whose behaviour ranges from merely unpleasant to actually evil.

If you think it’s just women being irrationally silly, maybe you should listen more and talk less.

I would imagine that all of those saying that male privilege is tosh are men suffering from male privilege.
Many women will have first had experience of being harrassed (anything from being made to feel uncomfortable all the way through to physical/sexual assalt) and they will have secondhand experience from their friends/family/etc – that’s why they don’t feel comfortable doing things that an ‘average’ male may see as normal.

Invisible Women – by Caroline Criado Perez – is a great read and includes some of this.

Any man who talks about male privilege as an actual thing worthy of anything but laughter is not worth listening to.

OTOH I wouldn’t risk sitting on my own watching a children’s playground as a middle aged man, whereas I doubt a woman would have any qualms.

My missus doesn’t like walking the streets after dark. So if she’s been out drinking with the girls she will run home from the pub. Presumably that’s safer as rapists can’t run. Alternatively she’s so knackered and out of breath if anyone makes a grab for her she’s in a less able to state to successfully fight or flight.

It’s certainly an issue. On our evening club rides we make sure ladies don’t have to ride home alone, certainly when we ride in the dark. Most seem to appreciate it. One or two brush it off but even they stick a “three rings” message up on the club Facebook page so we know they got home.

The world is very different for men and women and most of that is the fault of certain men, whose behaviour ranges from merely unpleasant to actually evil.

You’re just part of the patriarchy trying to control women by making up stories of ‘certain men’ hiding on the trails.

What would you say if a woman MTBer suggested to you that ‘certain men’ aren’t very likely to pick a deserted trail “in the middle of no-where” to find victims for their murdering and raping? What if she said that ‘certain men’ will be looking for their victims in places where there are actually likely you be potential targets? What if she asked you how the ‘certain man’ hiding in the “in the middle of no-where” waiting for a woman to harm would know that behind the 2000 lumin light approaching was a potential female target? Or the departing red? How would you convince her that she’s at risk? Are you saying that the ‘certain man’ knocks off every approaching cyclist off to check their gender? How come men aren’t constantly knocked of their bikes on the trail by weirdos checking to see if there’s a potential victim?