I am not sure whether to buy a plunge saw or circular saw in the first instance, the plunge saw looks more usable in general use, but a bench saw would be handy, and a circular saw could be used for that either via a wolfcraft 2500 or diy solution, and I am not sure a plunge saw would be suitable. I think that a circular saw that I could fit a dado stack to would be ideal and probably the most cost effective solution to the use I would get out of it.

I have been pricing up all kinds of table saws and mitre saws over the past week, and could easily spend a fortune, but the reality is I have quite a few furniture projects for the next 2 – 3 years, but after that a well equipped workshop is going to become largely redundant, I need to be realistic about what would be really good to have, and what would be an expensive white elephant.

I think that a circular saw that I could fit a dado stack

Avoid going down that route. Modern saws are designed to stop the blade quickly – the extra mass and momentum in a dado stack isn’t that clever in that application unless its on a saw thats been specifically designed for them. In some instances its enough for the blades to unthread themselves and throw themselves around the room. If you’re talking about putting a dado stack in a hand-held saw thats an awful lot of work for a small handheld motor to do – dedicated handheld groove-cutting saws cost upwards of a grand.

I suggested the little dual purpose mitre / table saws further up the thread. But a lot depends on application. Before getting into larger floor-standing machines the benchtop Dewalt DW745 table saw is blimmin ace – quick, accurate, repeatable adjustment, extracts well, easy to put away when you’re not using it. I’d save money on the mitre saw (as in do away with a sliding one and just get well-made a non-slider) if you want to get table saw anyway as the extra options the sliding saw gives you (wider cuts, trenching cuts etc) can be covered by the table saw and a bit of jig making

I think also – maybe base your activity around the tool – rather than the furniture. You can look at a piece of furniture and there will be half a dozen tools and machines that would have been used in its production. But it you look at one tool – a table saw for instance – there are a whole hosts of processes you can do with that tool to cut, shape, joint, and detail material and you can devise and design perfectly good furniture just around those- theres really interesting things you can do with only that tool (for instance you you can turn a bowl on a table saw  if you like)

So rather than equipping a full workshop to make a small amount of furniture buy just one or two tools and exhaust the possibuilitues with them before making further investments.

ok, that is good advice, I certainly don’t fancy being sliced up with flying saw blades..

So I would probably be better forget using a circular saw as a table saw and getting a plunge saw first, or is there any advantage to a circular saw over a plunge saw? from what I can see a plunge saw is just a circular saw with some mechanical improvements so you can plunge it into a cut.

is there any advantage to a circular saw over a plunge saw?

not really. Regular circular saws are easier to use free-hand for rough, quick work. They have their benefits in a site situation but at a furniture scale a plunge saw is more geared towards the accuracy you need and is also cleaner to use indoors

I certainly don’t fancy being sliced up with flying saw blades..

it would certainly be the most entertaining obituary in the local paper that week

Especially if I started paranoid rumours that I believed ninjas were out to get me.

“from what I can see a plunge saw is just a circular saw with some mechanical improvements so you can plunge it into a cut.”

Strictly speaking, yes, but I suspect that most references in this thread really refer to a track saw – a plunge saw with a guide rail. If you’re doing any flat panel work they are really, really handy, and need much less space than a table saw. (“Cheap” ones in stock in Prestatyn Lidl if you’re quick!).

Forget dado blades in the UK – I don’t think you can even buy them – again, a router will cut channels / rebates.

A thicknesser is arguably more useful than a table saw – re-saw stock with whatever you have and clean it up with the thicknesser. Having uniform thickness stock makes everything much, much easier.

A thicknesser is arguably more useful than a table saw

useful at that job. I think you’d struggle to cut mitres, make finger joints, make mouldings and so on with a thicknesser 🙂

cut mitres – mitre saw
finger joints – router (but a table saw would be much quicker!)
mouldings – router again

😀

(Of course, it all depends on what the OP intends doing, how they like working, and how much space / money they have.)

I had considered a thicknesser combined jointer, although even the economy models are 300 quid. This is where it soon adds up, mitre saw would be nice, as well as table saw, some sort of shop vac dust collection system etc. I could easily spend a few grand before even making anything, which would be fine if it becomes a long term hobby but not until I really get going.

Can you get the lumber merchants to prepare wood through a jointer and thicknesser? I would kind of like to stick to hand (power) tools for at least a couple of  projects, before deciding if this is really for me and investing in workshop kit.

I think my first project will be a bed (as that is what I currently need). But I would like to do a good job of it, I think power tool wise I should be able to do that with a router, orbital sander, plunge saw and a borrowed chop saw. Really it should be fairly simple, but I would like to use hardwood, and connect the main frame using tenons and mortices, with some kind of simple panelling for the headboard.

I make furniture part time as a part of my income.  I’m not doing it all day every day, I’m self taught and I like to make a really good job of the work I do.  As a result most of my business is repeat and referrals.

Most of what  I make is melamine faced chipboard and vinyl covered mdf.  But these materials can be of excellent quality and are used in bedrooms, kitchens, studys etc. costing many thousands of pounds.  I can and do use oak and other stable woods.

Tools fall into 3 categories:  those which are essential to do a job; those which help you do a job faster and those which help you do a job to a higher standard.

My basics are a Festool rail saw with a MFT top, resting on a couple of saw horses and a couple of pieces of CLS. With this I’m fine making accurate and clean cuts on boards up to 2800mm in length.  With some bench dogs and a home made fence I can make angles and mitres so I don’t need a chop saw, table saw, mitre saw and I’m able to work in somebody’s kitchen or bedroom.

I recently invested about £800 in a Festool Domino setup.  It seems a lot but it’s taken my quality up a few notches and means that I can tackle jobs that I wouldn’t have been able to do before.  And that’s important because I usually get called on because other firms can’t do what the customer wants, like dealing with angles, corners, rebates etc.

However, stuff that isn’t that critical or I don’t use every day, I’m happy to use cheapies like Erbauer, Titan, Mac, JCB etc.etc.  But never ever skimp on tape measures.

And I’m very pleased with my cheap Titan dust extractor with power take-off.  Saved £300 over the Festool equivalent.

I’ve not really made any furniture except very ‘rustic’ outdoor benches and table, some fitted alcove shelves and a small simple bench for my children, but this thread is really wetting my appetite to make some freestanding interior pieces and basing my items on the relatively simple hand and power tools I have to hand.

I’m thinking of building some furniture, in oak, going to be joining the wood sections using a lap joint I think. Half lap at the corners and cross lap in the middles.

I have access to a chop saw that I think is height adjustable so I was thinking of using that to take out the majority of wood that I’d need to remove for the lap joints and then tidy it up using a rasp file? Does that sound sensible or is there a better way of doing it without having to purchase expensive tools.

Joints will be glued, and doweled at the corners for strength.

You can do it like that, but why not just use a hand saw and chisel?

The main reason is because I have the puny arms of a desk jockey. I’d be worried about taking too much off with a chisel, but it’s a good suggestion, thanks.

Its ALOT easier to remove too much with a power tool than a chisel.

And you do not need big arms to tap a mallet against a chisel.

Which makes me sound all hand tooly again.

Big track saw and router fan.

Bigjohn sounds like you work in a similar fashion to Peter Millard on YouTube. Well worth checking out his channel everyone else to see how he uses a track saw and domino to quickly create smart furniture.

Big John – are you getting a domino 500 or 700? I can’t decide. Biggest thing I’m likely to knock up is a bed or a door, which a 500 would be best for, but most of the time I’m working with 22mm thick redwood, which would suggest the 500. I see you can get an adaptor for the 700 so it’ll take the smaller bits, but I wonder if it’ll be too unweildy.

Don’t have any photos but I made some peices for a flat I had some years ago. (Money was…non existent). Bed, bedside tables, hall table & a few other bits & peices. Tool wise I had nothing electric apart from a drill. It was all pretty basic but it looked ok. I used dowel joints mostly.

Worth keeping your eye out for second hand Domino machines. I got the smaller version for about £200 and something from a bloke upgrading to the bigger one. I think the reason there isn’t similar machines from other manufacturers is one of patent.

Modern chop saws are fantastic for the above trenching work. They have a flip-out depth stop for repeatable cuts to a given depth. The addition of some simple stops can give you very accurate and repeatable halving joints.

In terms of cordless versus corded tools. Cordless are now excellent. I have the twin battery Makita 36v plunge saw and wouldn’t swap it for anything. The convenience of having no trailing cables is just fantastic. True, you have to switch your extraction on for the cut but….meh. Plus they actually do a Bluetooth receiver switch if it’s that much of an issue.

For diy stuff with a lower budget though, I’d go corded. Be inventive(but careful) with how tools are used and you can get by with much fewer.

The Festool  500 will do up to 10mm dominoes with ease. I tend to use dominoes just one third of the thickness of the material so the 8mm should be fine for 22mm . Most of my stuff is 18mm so I get through a lot of 6mm dominoes.

Peter Millard’s channel now checked out and subscribed.  Looks like he has to lacquer all his pieces on completion whereas I usually work with materials which don’t require finishing.  However, lots of useful tips that may contribute to my continuous improvement.  Or Kaizen, as they say in Nissan.

I spotted a lovely oak cupboard in the gift shop at Tate Modern the other week.  Well within my capabilities and it had a price tag of £12,000.  I don’t know if my customer base would wear a tenfold price uplift, but food for thought.

How much do you pat for oak? say a 5cm x 15cm x 200cm plank

Looking around here, the cost of wood seems to be a lot more than the yanks pay.

Do you have any tips for sourcing decent wood without paying full retail?

is there a laymans version of the domino without the hefty price tag?  surely someone must do a cheaper version? it looks like a biscuit jointer on steroids..

From what I can see no, other than marking up carefully and using a router with maybe a centring jig, which still wouldn’t do everything a domino would. If makita/dewalt came out with one for around 200 I would buy one in a flash, or if I could get a second hand one as someone mentioned above. In the states festool could probably patent a “tool to cut holes for floating tenons” but I don’t think that would fly for most of the rest of the world.

Do you have any tips for sourcing decent wood without paying full retail?

That’s why someone was talking about buying a planner/thicknesses earlier 🙂

the more processed timber is, the more it costs. Tree = cheap, sawn boards = money, planed boards = proper money.

But also, why oak? Look at ash, it’s blimmin lovely and a lot cheaper than silly oak. Why does everyone always want oak! Or chestnut, or English walnut, or cedar (technically softwood). Most of these are half the price of oak. Find a local sawmill. For the small furniture maker you need to find the offcuts department, some will be planed and ready to use. The rest will make you want to invest in a planer.

Where are you?

Mafell do a double dowel machine but it isn’t as versatile as the Domino.  It has a fixed separation between dowels so the joint is always 56mm wide – wider than a cupboard door frame.  Festool has the ability to make both tight and loose mortices (very handy) allows for anywhere from 0 to 90 degrees bevels and is fantastically accurate even for fast repetitive work.  Some joints you don’t need either to mark or measure.

If you’re looking for expensive – check out the Lamello Zeta biscuit jointer.  Eyewateringly pricey (both machine and consumables and has a very limited range of uses.

Do you have any tips for sourcing decent wood without paying full retail?

One of the downsides of the middle-class enthusiasm for woodburners is smaller stockists of hardwood are finding it difficult to get reliable supplies – its so much easier for landowners / foresters etc to just chop or chip trees and flog them in bulk than take the time to select out and extract good wood for any other application.

Depending on the scale you work in some ways of acquiring nice timber can be:

Salvage it – find damaged or uninteresting furniture made out of good material and split it all up and make something new from it. Church Pews for instance – some salvage businesses sort of cut and shut then – shortening them to domestic scale and keeping the ends – so theres bits of straight board that come from the middle. But something like old dining tables, old office desks, school science desks etc would yield good wood. I’ve made stuff out of gorgeous iroko boards that were the benches and handrails from a 1960s school games changing room. Buildings of a certain age even the skirting boards would make good timber for furniture

For oak in particular look out for local suppliers of railway sleepers – some reclaimed sleepers are oak but are big and gnarly and difficult to work wit –  however often they have a supply of new oak slabs in sleeper dimensions and  in more manageable half thicknesses (about 2″ thick) about the size and shape of a scaffold plank – for about a tenner. Not necessarily well seasoned and not selected, furniture grade – but oak non the less and a good size to rip up into the board sizes you would actually want.

If you can find a supply locally – whisky barrels are made of really good, straight grained, knot-free oak. “Barrel’ staves are curved all the way round but ‘cask’ staves (which are actually much more common in the UK)  are sort of boomerang shaped- a bend in the middle and two straight ends. The bigger the cask – especially the taller – the longer and more useful those straight sections of stave are. From a decent size barrel you can get a stack of short, chunky bit of straight oak (and have a smaller stack of curved bits for your fire 🙂 ) . You need to put a fair bit of work to then get them regularised and square, but its nice work as everything smells of whisky. Putting them through a thicknesser is heavenly – binbags of whisky pot pouri! But with a bit of jig making you can get them all squared up on either a bandsaw or a table saw

Another option is finding places that offer reclaimed wood flooring. I’ve just bought a couple of square m of maple planks that used to be the floor of a sports hall at Birmingham uni, cost about £35/sq  (which is not a lot of floor but it can make a lot of furniture) . Again a bit of regularising involved to remove the tongue and groove, but really nice wood – the reclamation yard had all sort of woods there though. Given that their main market is in supplying room-fulls of matched material you can often do a bit of a deal on small quanities where they don’t have a room-worth of material left.