Make Event fabric work again?

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  • Make Event fabric work again?
  • Premier Icon alfabus
    Subscriber

    ironing works quite well for me.

    failing that, use some nikwax tx direct wash in or spray on waterproofing stuff.

    http://nikwax.com/en-gb/products/productdetail.php?productid=3

    Dave

    jcromton
    Member

    Thanks Dave, do you iron straight onto the fabric on a low setting with steam?

    I’m lazy and use this;
    http://www.grangers.co.uk/product.cfm?cat=12&productid=4
    Seems good, but needs refreshing.

    Premier Icon alfabus
    Subscriber

    low setting, iron a tea-towel on top of the fabric. no steam.

    jcromton
    Member

    Hi, I got soaked this morning mostly because my jacket didn’t work. It’s event fabric and seems to have given up the ghost. It’s been washed regularly as per the instructions with liquid fabric. Last week I tumble dried it to see if that would help but it didn’t.

    Do I need to iron it? What do you do?

    Cheers,

    Chris

    anjs
    Member

    Sounds like your have striped the waterproof coating off. The jacket should only ever be washing in soap flakes / tech wash or similar. You should never use fabric softerner.

    I would try washing it in one of the above and if this does not return a ability for bead water off the surface then would try washing in Nikwax Tx proofer.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    Event recommend washing in a detergent, they say that tech wash etc isn’t aggressive enough to remove the oils that block fabric performance. Tech wash is good for gore fabrics.

    http://www.eventfabrics.com/care_and_maintenance.php

    jcromton
    Member

    anjs, I’ve never ever washed it with fabric softener, only liquid detergent like the instructions say. I will try washing it in one of the above and as per MSP’s link.

    Cheers for the help,
    Chris

    Yes, Event recommend using ordinary detergent unlike Gore stuff.

    I loved my Event jacket for the first year or so but it leaked quite badly after this, it just does not seem to have the longevity of Goretex.

    It’s not the ability to bead (which is mainly to promote breathability)but that it actually leaks on the wear points where rucksacks and straps sit.

    I would only buy if cheap with the intention of getting a year maximum out of it.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    Another former lover of Event who got very wet and very cold on one ride 🙁

    Premier Icon alfabus
    Subscriber

    Surely those wear points (where it is leaking) are the areas that the DWR coating has been worn away.

    Reproofing with TX direct should sort that.

    Dave

    boblo
    Member

    Event is supposed to be more breathable than GTX because they don’t coat the PTFE layer with PU. Gore had to do this when they launched GTX (1976?) after body oils contaminated the PTFE layer and made it porous.

    Anybody spot any parallels?

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    I just try not to ride in heavy rain any more 🙂

    trickydisco
    Member

    Mine has suffered the same fate. Very expensive montane event xt jacket that just isn’t waterpoof anymore

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    If the coating has gone it will never be waterproof again. However the various wash in / spray on proofers should make it water repellent again. I have just used some on my kit and am amazed at how well it works. Nowt to lose but the few quid it costs. I used Graingers stuff from Tisos.

    boblo
    Member

    But Event isn’t a coating, it’s a laminate. The coating being discussed is the DWR applied to the outside fabric surface to encourage water beading/runoff and therefore breathability.

    Once the DWR goes, the face fabric wets out and the Event laminate can’t breath. This then causes sweat to condense inside and makes you feel wet (as did all waterproofs before breathables).

    DWR is supposed to last a bit and then be replaceable by using the products discussed above. That’s normal.

    However, if the laminate has gone, I’d send it back to Event.

    rondo101
    Member

    +1 for nikwax. Tech Wash for washing and TX Direct to re-waterproof. Water will bead off the fabric again, rather than soaking in.

    Just take it out of the washing machine carefully as the pockets/hood/arms will be full of water.

    If a laminated or coated waterproof is no longer keeping you dry from rain then it’ll never be waterproof again. Loss of water repellency on the outside reduces breathability but that water repellency isn’t there to keep you dry.

    CaptJon
    Member

    My snowboard instructor (many years ago) preferred to reproof his kit with Ronseal – “It’s a bit crunchy for a few days, but great after that.”

    SiB
    Member

    IMO event needs washing more frequently that gortex for it to function correctly

    Non bio liquid detergent (Fairy non bio works fine)
    Drip dry
    cool iron setting straight on to jacket
    jobs a good’un.

    occassional reproofing

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    If the coating has gone it will never be waterproof again. However the various wash in / spray on proofers should make it water repellent again. I have just used some on my kit and am amazed at how well it works. Nowt to lose but the few quid it costs. I used Graingers stuff from Tisos.

    Utter bollocks, but you say it with such conviction.

    1. As above, eVent and Gore-Tex are both ptfe laminates, the waterproofing comes from the membrane which is durably waterproof – it’ll leak if you puncture it, but otherwise will last for a very long time.

    2. The coating is something called a DWR – durable water repellent – treatment. It coats the fibres of the face fabric, the bit on the outside and stops it absorbing water. If the DWR wears out, as it will, the face fabric soaks up fluid and gets heavy but also reduces the breathability overall leading to condensation on the inside of the jacket – you get wet, but it’s not leaking.

    3. eVent as already mentioned, can be washed with normal detergent, needs to be in fact to get the dirt out effectively. I double rinse after washing.

    4. Heat treating with an iron (careful, don’t iron reflective bits or you’ll kill them) or a tumble drier on low (careful, if the thermostat is faulty it can melt bits of trim etc plus tumble drying abrades fabrics – guess what that fluff is in the filter…) may revive the DWR. try splashing some water on the surface to see if it beads and runs off.

    5. If you can’t do that, you need to reproof the garment, or rather restore the DWR. Grangers and Nikwax both do suitable stuff, the latest new Nikwax version is claimed to last up to five times longer’ and seems good. Neither brands need heat-treating except the all-in-one washer and reproofer from Grangers, but it may improve performance slightly.

    6. The rattle in my Pikes mixed with excess play and travel was actually a loose circlip, fixed.

    7. TJ, I’d stick to your other career as a professional lawyer.

    8. I’ll say it again, membranes like Gore-Tex and eVent aren’t likely to leak unless they have a hole in, seams might if the taping goes, pockets and zips can, depending on construction, water comes through the big hole your head fits through regardless – try a Buff to slow the process.

    If the DWR goes, the surface wets out, you will get wet from condensation and it may feel like your jacket is leaking, but it probably isn’t.

    9. HTH

    FWIW, I recently bought an Event Rab jacket, Tiso’s recommended wash in re-proofer as opposed to a direct spray on, I guess because you get better coverage. Interested in using a detergent advice, I just figured on very frequent washes to prevent build up, using Grangers. Could get expensive I suppose…

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    BWD

    Misunderstandings. No need to be so rude

    If it is actually leaking then the waterproof layer has failed and nothing you do will restore it. using the repellent might improve matters by encouraging water to bead up and run off

    I have had several goretex garments fail and leak.

    boblo
    Member

    @BWD

    True but…. As I said when Berghaus (first in the UK market with a GTX jacket) brought their Mistral out in 1976 it used first gen GTX. It was taken off the market a few months later as the PTFE membrane was getting contaminated with user body oils. This made the PTFE layer porous and people got wet. Not through sweat condensation or punctures, throught he membrane becoming porous.

    Gore got over this by coating the PTFE in PU. This stopped the contamination and GTX went on to lead the way. Years later, along came Event and claimed to have solved a problem the mighty W L Gore could not as their PTFE layer is not PU coated. This is why Event is more breathable than GTX.

    ….And now we have similar reports of porous fabrics. Might be coincidence or….

    I always reproof the DWR on my waterproofs and iron to activate.

    In my Rab Latok Event I will get wet through if I stand still for 5 minutes out in the rain, it’s definately leaking, not getting wet through condensation due to lost breathability.

    I really like the cut, function and appearance of it so tend to use it for local rides/walks in sub zero where its breathability is great and lack of waterproofing don’t matter.

    Some people are arguing about the same thing here…
    If the membrane has a hole in it due to accidental damage or wear and tear, you can’t make it waterproof again, just water repellent with a DWR coating. Some garments protect the eVent membrane with an additional lining inside the item, some have the eVent membrane exposed. Typically, the lighter weight the item is the more likely it is to have the eVent exposed so save on weight (it also breathes faster/better). This leaves the membrane far more likely to get worn out faster due to rubbing from wearing and dirt/grit. It’s true that if the DWR coating has worn out then the garment won’t breathe and condensation will build on the inside. A garment that is properly leaking will get you wetter much faster than a build up of condensation though! Only the OP will be able tell.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    I knew mine was leaking when a pootle along a flat easy trail in cold, wet weather caused me to get wet in places I didn’t think sweated on cold, wet days.

    This made the PTFE layer porous and people got wet. Not through sweat condensation or punctures, throught he membrane becoming porous.

    How does contamination with ‘body oils’ make a membrane porous? (genuine question).

    Have just invested in a Rab Latok Alpine eVent jacket, hoping i don’t regret it six months down the line… 😕

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    How does contamination with ‘body oils’ make a membrane porous? (genuine question).

    Process called reverse osmosis, which pulls moisture through from teh damp outside to the drier inner area, apparently.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    @BWD

    True but…. As I said when Berghaus (first in the UK market with a GTX jacket) brought their Mistral out in 1976 it used first gen GTX. It was taken off the market a few months later as the PTFE membrane was getting contaminated with user body oils. This made the PTFE layer porous and people got wet. Not through sweat condensation or punctures, throught he membrane becoming porous.

    Gore got over this by coating the PTFE in PU. This stopped the contamination and GTX went on to lead the way. Years later, along came Event and claimed to have solved a problem the mighty W L Gore could not as their PTFE layer is not PU coated. This is why Event is more breathable than GTX.

    ….And now we have similar reports of porous fabrics. Might be coincidence or….

    I’m actually aware of all that. The way eVent works is that the inside of the pores of the membrane are actually coated microscopically with a protective substance, so it should be protected from contamination, which is what causes reverse osmosis. That’s why it’s more breathable than Gore-Tex. I’ve used a lot of eVent and not had problems with the waterproofness. If you do have issues, take it back to the retailer and ask them to return it to the manufacturer. Most outdoor brands are pretty hot on customer service, so it’s worth doing.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    TandemJeremy – Member
    BWD

    Misunderstandings. No need to be so rude

    If it is actually leaking then the waterproof layer has failed and nothing you do will restore it. using the repellent might improve matters by encouraging water to bead up and run off

    I have had several goretex garments fail and leak.

    ‘Bollocks’ was maybe a little harsh.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    If you do have issues, take it back to the retailer and ask them to return it to the manufacturer. Most outdoor brands are pretty hot on customer service, so it’s worth doing.

    I used to be one of those retailers and you’re right, I was quite obliging. I was also quite disgusted how many “waterproof” jackets came back into the shop no longer waterproof. One brand in particular – and one model in particular – was woeful in terms of how many we had to send back. Myself and my father between us returned 3 in a relatively short space of time.

    (Much) time has moved on but I’m not sure the quality has

    boblo
    Member

    BadlyWiredDog – Member
    If you do have issues, take it back to the retailer and ask them to return it to the manufacturer.

    That’s the answer! 🙂

    However 1. for Event fans… Beware. If WL Gore in 35 years haven’t managed to crack the ‘secret’, I’d be very very surprised if someone was able to come along and just happen across it. Gore have spent £10m’s on R&D (and even more on marketing) and surely would have come up with ‘the answer’ before now?

    However 2. As I understand it, Event is now a ‘dead’ product. No more development and, IIRC is either being sold or sidelined. Gore however, continue to develop their products and I understand the latest gen of GTX outperforms Event (for £££’s though).

    I’m no GTX fanboy. I have GTX (of loads of different flavours), Event, Endura and HyVent. They’re all OK apart from when it’s really pi$$ing down or exercising hard…

    I only found out a couple of years ago about the great GTX myth. It’s really a semi permeable PU coating with limited breathability. The PTFE ‘7 billion pores per square inch’ is mainly marketing bollocks and we’ve all been sucked in by it. That’s why I don’t believe the Event hype.

    Aye – breathable fabrics are largely marketing bollocks but do work if the conditions are right. Problem is, conditions in the UK are rarely right for the membranes to work.

    Paramo anybody? Heavy but does work in typical UK conditions.

    Going off on a slight tangent … but I’ve always been under the understanding that the layers underneath the jacket are more important than the layer on the outside. Most jackets will either

    a) leak when the outside pressure exceeds its tolerances (ie cycling into a gale force wind)

    or

    b) fill up like a kiddies paddling pool with sweat …

    Back in the younger days the standard bush dress to go tramping was a wool undershirt, a jumper a big heavy woollen “bush shirt” and a PVC waterproof to chuck on if it really started belting down (or the wind got up a little).

    Obviously the rest of the attire consisted of shorts (cause legs are waterproof) and some woollen socks.

    In fact we did both the Annapurna circuit and Everest base camps wearing the same without bother.

    Along came Gortex and all the others with their millions of dollars of research and tried to outdo it all …

    Ok, so its lighter thats a given. But I still swear by the woollen undershirt (icebreaker) Woollen jumper (mums christmas special) and a jacket to keep the bulk of the wet out. If it leaks … no dramas the wool keeps me insulated until it drys out again, and if I actually work up a sweat … it wicks it all away.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    However 2. As I understand it, Event is now a ‘dead’ product. No more development and, IIRC is either being sold or sidelined. Gore however, continue to develop their products and I understand the latest gen of GTX outperforms Event (for £££’s though).

    Wrong, they thought about de-branding the fabric and dropping marketing spend on it, but they haven’t. And as for the next generation of Gore-Tex, it’s called Active Shell, it’s constructed slightly differently, it works well, but subjectively although it’s competitive with eVent, I wouldn’t say it ‘out-performs it. It’s a load better than previous Gore-Tex fabrics though.

    a) leak when the outside pressure exceeds its tolerances (ie cycling into a gale force wind)

    If the wind you’re cycling into is massive enough to overcome the hydrostatic head of a technically waterproof fabric, you won’t be cycling, you’ll be being blown backwards at a phenomenal rate. Trust me, it won’t happen.

    Fwiw, I think eVent’s very good, new Gore-Tex Active Shell is also very good, Polartec’s NeoShell similarly seems to be appreciably better than anything else on the market. Paramo breathes very well, but is heavy, warm, a little ugly, a little heavy and leaks under pressure, eg if you sit on a wet rock.

    boblo
    Member

    @BWD

    De-branding? What does that mean?

    The last I read, there was to be no more R&D and the product was to be effectively shelved in terms of future development.

    Are you saying that’s not now the case or are you saying it is but they are keeping the eVent brand and continuing with the marketing noise? (or something else?).

    I can’t find the stuff I was reading at the mo so a reference would be helpful if you have it. Just curious.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    They were:

    1. Going to make eVent available as an unbranded fabric so major clothing companies could use it under whatever name they want – in fact MHW’s new stuff, Dry-Q Elite is based on the eVent membrane, so they have done that.

    2. They’re still promoting the fabric, as I understand it they backtracked on that one.

    I don’t know what the current situation is with further development of the fabric, but it’s not changed much since launch anyway.

    Sorry, this is crashingly dull stuff, as far as the real world goes, all you really need to know is that eVent still exists. You know it’s produced by GE?

    Anyway, enough. I’m losing the will to live 😉

    If the wind you’re cycling into is massive enough to overcome the hydrostatic head of a technically waterproof fabric, you won’t be cycling, you’ll be being blown backwards at a phenomenal rate. Trust me, it won’t happen.

    Not if you’re a REAL man and took your rigid SS with carbon rims off your Chubby mini and went for a gnar ride down a chalky run …

    Its only them lazy full sussers that would stay dry.

    8)

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