Is this still going on? It’s got a bit more interesting since people started getting testy though.

It seems to me that the most significant difference is that the PC has users while Apple has disciples. Kudos to GrahamS for attempting a discussion, but even he appears to be getting grumpy now.

Dunno what Charlie Brooker’s on about – my Mighty Mouse right clicks.

123 posts and not a girlfriend in sight….. 😀

surely it has even penetrated your addled noggin that there is a difference between a company with a 95% market share doing something, and a company with a 3% market share doing something?

Don’t ad hominem me son.

I think I have ably demonstrated that in areas where Apple have market dominance (e.g. in mp3 players) then they are quick to indulge in the same kind of monopoly tactics that Microsoft got slated for. But that no one is calling them on it because Apple is everybody’s friend.

And that by deciding to bundle software with OSX they can harm other companies that were already in that market in just the same way that Microsoft harmed Netscape.

Apple pushing Safari through with iTunes has hit Firefox’s share of the browser market – explain to me how that isn’t Apple abusing monopoly power??

Of course by design – that’s the point – that’s what it is. You want to copy mp3 files from place to place, there are any number of POS players will do that for you.

And that’s the Apple mindset. You want iThis? Right then you’ll need iThat, iTheOther and iSomeOtherDamnThing. And if you want to charge it you’ll need to buy a new Apple iCharger because the electricity produced by your old charger isn’t Apple compatible.

They forcibly join everything together like this, and the result is that it’s all nicely integrated, works simply and well. Which is why people like them.

But if Microsoft did that they’d get absolutely slated.

Hell – maybe you want to buy a nice brown Zune?

No ta. I’ve got an iPhone and I love it.

Of course I wish I could install whatever I like on it. And that Apple didn’t try to prevent me jailbreaking it. And that I could develop my own apps for it without buying a Mac. And that I could distribute those apps without Apple wanting a cut of my profits.

But it’s still better than a Zune.

GrahameS – I’m glad you’re happy with your efforts but from where I’m sitting I don’t see a single example of apple creating an unfair barrier to entry to the mp3 player Market. On the contrary – if you or I decided to manufacture an mp3 player tomorrow there is nothing to prevent us competing with the iPod. We can even make one that plays music bought from the iTunes store using free apple software. If there really were grounds to complain don’t you think that there would be a line of lawyers a mile long waiting to file suit?

Of course apple’s strength is its integrated product. But that is also its weakness. On the other hand the M$ business model was to make an is that runs (I use the term loosely) ok every box of crap from Kansas to Kowloon. That was the strategy that made them so hugely successful so it seems a little strange at this point to claim that they were prevented from adopting a different strategy!

from where I’m sitting I don’t see a single example of apple creating an unfair barrier to entry to the mp3 player Market.

Well no and I didn’t accuse them of doing so either.

In the case you cited Microsoft were accused of using their market dominance of desktop operating systems to gain advantage for their browser by bundling it with the OS.

I pointed out that Apple are doing exactly the same thing. Using their market dominance of MP3 players to push other Apple products (i.e. Safari, MobileMe, Bonjour). Yup.

But yet they are perceived very differently – as your ardent fanboism ably demonstrates – they are “the good guys” and can do no wrong in the eyes of the Apple faithful.

Of course apple’s strength is its integrated product. But that is also its weakness.

I’d argue that it is also their “evilness”. And that the tie-in, restrictive integration is a major part of the reason that some folk are wary of Apple generally.

Reading back, several other Apple sceptics have made similar comments in this very thread.

it seems a little strange at this point to claim that they were prevented from adopting a different strategy!

You mean apart from that bit where they actually tried a strategy of tighter integration and got thoroughly sued for it.