Luddite/phone/GPS question

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  • Luddite/phone/GPS question
  • dobo
    Member

    gps doesnt use internet but i think some phones try to approximate your position using any available networks. also the app that you use for the gps may want to use an internet connection so… ill say no but it might do..

    mattsccm
    Member

    Do mobiles using the GPS actually use the web to do so? I am sure that some one here was on about using an old phone sim free. Does that mean no internet needed?
    Contradictory advice from phone shops, all of whom lost interest when I mentioned that 10 quid of calls on PAYG lasts me about 8 or 9 months if I am extravagant.

    Premier Icon richmars
    Subscriber

    GPS no, but mapping maybe, and approximate position from GSM masts (I guess this would need a valid SIM).

    CountZero
    Member

    Depends entirely on the mapping. Most modern smartphones have the GPS built-in, but they will also use local towers, and wifi hotspots to improve the geolocation, and to improve the speed that the phone can connect with nearby cell-towers. That’s what the big fuss over Apple’s supposed abuse of personal location data was all about; crowdsourcing of anonymous location data stored in the cloud allows phones to find locations more quickly and accurately when entering a new area.
    Lots of maps require a network connection to download data from servers, like Google and Apple Maps, but if you’re using something like TomTom, CoPilot Live, Viewranger or MemoryMap, then the maps are native to the device, and work without a SIM installed, although geolocation may be slightly compromised because of the inability to triangulate off of local cell towers to improve the satellite signal.
    Hope that clarifies a bit. 😀

    mattsccm
    Member

    Assume maps on SD card.
    Back to the other thread then
    Ta

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    Assisted GPS allows phones to get a faster first fix as it tells them approximately where in the world they are and which satellites they should be looking for.

    Otherwise they need to work it out and that takes time. I’ve got some survey grade gps’s at work that can take a good few minutes to fix from a cold start.

    clubber
    Member

    What he said. This is the thread you are probably thinking about

    http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/home-made-gps-with-mapping-and-tracking

    My defy mini works without any network but it can take longer to lock on

    mattsccm
    Member

    That the thread but it got to technical for me.
    I still don’t really know what an app is. Some form of program?
    Was starting from the beginning. So without a sim are we talking mega slow or just a few seconds ?

    Premier Icon jam bo
    Subscriber

    Up to a couple of minutes

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    Without a sim it should still find the location quite quickly, seconds not minutes. It will depend upon the phone but it should remember where it was the last time it had a fix and use that as a starting point. As an anecdote I have had a dedicated garmin gps take a few minutes to find it’s location when I transported it from uk to Singpore as the difference in location is so great it hard to find totally new satellites.

    The mapping may/may not need the web depending upon which app (program) you’re using, a lot of gps apps download maps for a surrounding area when they have a connection or when you explicitly load a map, then they can use that as its stored in the phone so don’t need a signal. “old fashioned” standard gps mapping devices have no Internet connectivity so use just satellites and stored maps. Hope that helps and doesn’t confuse further

    mattsccm
    Member

    Cheers.
    Main reason for thinking about web free is non existent phone signal and a refusal to pay for it. No one will /can tell me what the costs are. Minimal I guess but I am bloody minded! 🙄
    Too tight to buy a Garmin 800. My other GPs units are ancient and don’t display maps. Phones are cheaper. It would also keep the missus happy as I’m the type who hasn’t seen the mobile for a month and never take it with me. I might if it was useful.
    Ta lots.

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    it’s only for the first fix – after that it knows approximately where it is and works on that assumption initially. If you then drive to somewhere else before switching on again, you’re back to “first fix”

    CountZero
    Member

    App=application=programme. An Application/app like Viewranger will let you download areas of OS map at 1:50,000 and 1:25,000 scale, selected from a large-scale base map. There are other, similar apps, like UK Map, which also has a base map of around 1:1,000,000/250,000, and which allows you to download free OS map tiles of 1:25k and 1:10k, but which are less sophisticated in what you can actually do with them, like recording and uploading tracks, for instance.
    You can buy a cheap PAYG SIM, like GiffGaff, and just switch off things like text, have it purely as an emergency phone, and let location services function to improve GPS accuracy, or live with it and keep the phone as an MP3 player and satnav device, although it would be better to have the phone function available; you may not have it at home, but there may well be a time it’ll be essential. There’s usually a certain amount of data included, as well.
    Having the maps on a separate SD card means loading from a computer, usually, via wifi, or USB. The basic apps are usually relatively cheap, then, in the case of Viewranger you set up an account, buy so many credits at around £10-20 a time, which allows you to download map tiles for a selected area; once downloaded, they’re stored on the phone, and you need no further network connection. Of course, if you go outside that area, the app can only show the large-scale base-map, until you can find free wifi and download extra map tiles.
    UK Map is similar, except you pay more for the app, £5.99, against £1.99, if memory serves, but your map tiles are free from then on, and you can chose either 1:25k, 1:10k, or both together.
    Very useful addition to a smartphone, I use mine a hell of a lot, especially in large wooded areas, where it’s very easy to get turned around and find yourself a long way from where you thought you were.
    I’ve even done that in Savernake Forest, and found myself at the wrong end, getting dark, and no lights, when a glance at a map on a smartphone would have shown me my error instantly. 😳

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    backcountry navigator – app is 6 or 7 quid, map downloads free (if you ignore the wifi bandwidth cost) and no data usage once you’re out with your preloaded maps
    (bear in mind you’ll need decent storage space if you’re having large scale maps of big areas)

    Premier Icon jambalaya
    Subscriber

    @scardypants – what are the uk maps like (seems as though it’s us focused) ? Can you post a screen shot ?

    Premier Icon scaredypants
    Subscriber

    Can you post a screen shot ?

    Not unless you tell me how 😳

    there’s a free 21-day trial version though, so you can test for yourself

    (you can download what appear to be OS maps for the UK, as well as US mapping – I’ve had all of southern california on my phone too, again for free)

    clubber
    Member

    backcountry navigator – app is 6 or 7 quid, map
    downloads free

    Oruxmaps is free as are the downloads which includes OS. Can’t beat that really 😉

    gwaelod
    Member

    Get an Etrex 20 and load free OpenSOurce maps on there.

    It’s a GPS not a phone

    Half the price of an 800

    Tonnes of battery life compared to a phone and it takes AA batteries

    job done

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-eTrex-Outdoor-Handheld-Unit/dp/B00542NVDW

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