Cougar

Genuine question – or at least, perhaps even rhetorical but something for you to consider,

Is there a point on this path where you will consider yourself to be “happy”? Where you’ll sit back on your patio with a single malt and your faithful hound by your side and think, “there, I’ve finished”?

Or, is it ever-decreasing circles where the more ‘evil tech’ you excise from your life, the more you will crave to excise, until ultimately you drive yourself round the twist because you’re chasing an ephemeral dream which is undefined and therefore unattainable?

Fair question ….
There is in my head at least and the “evil tech” I currently want to exorcise is quite targeted and limited.

Bigger question though as I said to Stumpyjon is an increasing lack of interest in it as I get older.
So if I’m honest it sort of depends on how much work/tedium and frustration different stuff brings….

What was useful to use, read pages of T&C’s, spend time configuring and managing when I was younger and pretty much constantly travelling just isn’t any more.

What was “fun” to play with isn’t fun. I was an early adopter on nearly everything tech I can think of… then again I also liked fast cars and now drive a very slow van when I drive at all which is infrequently and I couldn’t tell you what size the actual engine is.

What I do know is the van has a every two years or 25,000 miles service (I may change the oil in between if I’m bored or check the timing chain)… but my phone feels like its every 3 months or 5000 miles with constant nagging and maintenance in-between and banking apps are always (understandably) going to want the latest security updates and mobile OS’s will keep bundling stuff into the updates that break pre existing apps or mean apps need to be reconfigured and more changes to TOS and T&C’s etc.

So I think the longer answer is more what doesn’t become too much hassle to use.

To turn it around I can’t see myself at 85 on the porch with the pooch and a dram being happy my banking app is broken due to some update to give me a new UI look and some extra korean language pack .. and spending ages setting it back up so I can order another bottle delivered by an amazon drone before I run out.

An interesting take, but I don’t share your experience. I have over a hundred apps but I only use a handful, and they just seem to work. Nothing has broken. But then this is a relatively high end Samsung phone so it seems to have support. I don’t think I have ever had a problem. what phone brands are giving you this trouble? Re banking, Barclays app has been decent. I don’t go through T&Cs though, I do most things on trust. Call me naive if you want.

The phone does give me an update every few months, but I just click the button and ignore it for 10 mins then it works. I just got Android 13 the other day – same story. Then, I’m not trying to do anything particularly demanding with it.

What brand of phone do you have?

Molgrips

An interesting take, but I don’t share your experience.

Happy to answer but as “a lot the same and some different things” a precursor in this my question was going to be do you read the T&C’s and TOS? (Which you answered)

That used to be me …. however one thing I can say specifically for you is I have 4 DD’s and no other regular payments because like you I was pissing money into stuff I didn’t want/use etc. etc.
One of the things got me to that point was making a rule for myself if I can’t be bothered to read the T&C/TOS it can’t be important enough to keep.

I personally found it rather cathartic to unsubscribe, stop useless/unused subscriptions and get rid of that “Oh shit I’m still paying for that” feeling. (this is in the something in the makes me feel happy not anxious bucket)
I’m guessing you get those “You paid £3.95 to … ” and each time you feel bad?

Easiest Q to answer …

What brand of phone do you have?

Currently Apple … and I’ve more or less had one since the Iphone 3 but not exclusively
Ive got an original Google Nexus / LG branded andrpoid and I had another Android from 3 (I can’t remember the brand).

I guess ironically the 3 one was one I bought for my father for emergencies. probably about 9 yrs ago…
It took a couple of years to find its way to me after he died… but it was to all intents a brick from an update POV. I tried to put it to some use at the time but it was really not possible even with enthusiasm. (e.g. mail wouldn’t work but tried just using a browser client and that didn’t either)

The google Nexus (?) similarly it’s just dead really..can’t be officially updated and apps don’t work and I don’t want it to do anything “new” and fancy – just provide a basic functionality same as my old 6120 but over 3G.

So (and I’ll answer all your questions eventually) but I’d just compare these “decade old” phones with the D300 sat on my desk. Yep it doesn’t do video… and never did but it still otherwise works exactly as it did over a decade ago as does my even older D70 (other than I converted it to IR).

So I guess what I’m saying is I just want a smartphone to be like my Nikon…. but for various reasons it can’t and won’t.
I’m moderately OK with the “it really was required to update security” (e.g. TFA for POP3) but I’m not really OK with the “screw you get a new phone stuff”

A pivotal moment in this was relatively recent… (maybe 4 yrs) and I was at a National Trust site where the only way to pay was an App. Sure I’m getting on a bit but I think I’m still fairly young in the demographic of National Trust visitors…

Firstly I wasn’t super-keen on downloading a parking App.. but I was meeting others and felt forced to (Yeah I can delete it later) except my iPhone6s (which I considered relatively new for me) was incapable of running the parking app. I even had signal and I was early so I even updated my (not very old to me) iPhone to the latest version and it still wasn’t capable of running a parking app.

A (relatively young compared to most people in the car park and probably me) lady was over talking to a Ranger so I went and waited… she had the exact same problem .. whatever phone she had wouldn’t run the App luckily the Ranger said they weren’t checking parking today.

This just struck me as completely mad…. who at the NT made a deliberate decision that people can’t park without a new smartphone? Did they sit round a table and discuss “how are we going to discourage older people?”
So I’m guessing not…rather some younger IT guy decided on a company that provided some App and didn’t even consider not everyone (and probably a disproportionate number of people visiting NT ) has the latest and greatest phone.

Moreover and based on my professional experience I strongly suspect they lied/misled to the (probably older and less tech savvy) people passing this budget/item because it was a pet project or they were getting a back hander etc.

.. and the thing is it’s a freakin parking App…. I don’t know what the App actually did but it just needs to take a reg and payment and update a database… it doesn’t need a 3D rendered virtual map and plan of the grounds or whatever that requires a “latest phone”.

I have over a hundred apps but I only use a handful, and they just seem to work.

Sorry, I’m kinda quoting out of context but then how many of these hundred apps are doing the same thing? How many are different parking Apps for example?

Can you not still rely on the sticker at NT properties? You could recently.

Sorry, I’m kinda quoting out of context but then how many of these hundred apps are doing the same thing? How many are different parking Apps for example?

About four. But here’s the thing – they all work pretty well, and they are all better than having to hunt for coins because I never ever have coins, which leads to some real frustration and a wasted half-hour whilst I try and get some cash then some change. So I like the parking apps – park, look for the number then walk off whilst clicking a few buttons in the app.

I have had the latest Samsung every few years for a while now, I went S6-S9-S21. Not because I get rid of them prematurely, but they always seem to break one way or the other. The S9 is still going though in my daughter’s hands, it’s going to need its second replacement battery soon. But the reason I get the latest S-series model is that they always work without compromises. My wife always said ‘oh I don’t need the best thing’ and always ended up with some piece of junk budget thing that had bloatware filling up too-small storage etc and didn’t get OS updates. Then she got Google phones and currently has a Flip 3 and as flagship phones they are all well supported and the manufacturers make sure they work well. So that might be part of why we have better experiences.

And yes, you are quite right that stuff shouldn’t become obselete so quickly, but I think that has slowed down a lot. The S9, despite having a poor battery, still works very well and is worth fixing so we will.

parking apps are a pain in the ass. but still easier than having sufficent coins.

I’ve never been to a national trust car park that needed an app though. every single one round here has a machine that you can scan your NT card on for free parking.

Molgrips

Can you not still rely on the sticker at NT properties? You could recently.

I believe you can for members … I guess regardless though the intention of “The Trust” as it were was never to discourage (older) people with older tech from paying for parking if they aren’t a member or in a relatives car etc.
I’m not a member, partly I have a few philosophical differences but mainly if I’m honest because it’s a subscription and I absolutely try my hardest not to have recurring payments (given I used to be in your situation) and I don’t trust myself. If I was doing anything it would be a one off donation….

About four. But here’s the thing – they all work pretty well, and they are all better than having to hunt for coins because I never ever have coins, which leads to some real frustration and a wasted half-hour whilst I try and get some cash then some change. So I like the parking apps – park, look for the number then walk off whilst clicking a few buttons in the app.

That’s sorta missing out the card payment option though ?
I guess for me there is some mindset thing… I’m going to <somewhere> (95% will be with my bike) what do I need to take?
Much as I agree a phone is a useful safety feature it’s also not something I want on a ride unless its being used as a satnav or something I’d think (or want) “oh must take a phone in case I need parking, food etc.)

Also as per another forked thread… lots of people are finding stuff doesn’t work after updates, including medical stuff.

And yes, you are quite right that stuff shouldn’t become obsolete so quickly, but I think that has slowed down a lot.

So just bypassing manufacturers .. going back to “a parking app” I’m totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.

I’m sure the “NT Exec” have some old fogies make us look positively young and would be quite horrified that somehow the App excluded people without “more modern mobiles” – I know the NT is a charity not a government org as such but using as an example there should IMHO be the same protections for people who either don’t want a smartphone or can’t afford one or just don’t want a modern one as other “lifestyle choices”. I’m not vegan (by a LONG WAY) but I’d support the rights of Vegans to exist in society … to use a daft example I don’t think insisting people wear leather goods to be allowed to vote or if they work somewhere they have to eat company provided food that they are given a vegan choice and even allowed to take their own food and eat at the same tables.

{I’m a bit invested in this as I’m coeliac and it makes life difficult when I’m with mates want to eat somewhere I can’t – even if I have brought my own food – “sorry you can’t bring your own food to these benches”}

going back to “a parking app” I’m totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.

I’m guess for anything involving payment info theres an issue with security and whether an older OS is still getting updated and patched

parking apps are a pain in the ass. but still easier than having sufficent coins.

Parking apps are a pain on first use. You invariably wind up somewhere trying to download and app with bog all reception. Once set up though they’re a breeze. The biggest annoyance for me is that there’s so many of them, I must have half a dozen on my phone.

I’ve never been to a national trust car park that needed an app though. every single one round here has a machine that you can scan your NT card on for free parking.

Assuming you’re a member, of course.

I think NT have changed their parking management provider, around here they’ve pulled all the units out that took cash or contactless and replaced them with cash only with a sign to use an app. I honestly can’t believe they thought an app would be easier that contactless, it’s simply down to putting it out to tender and an app being cheaper hence more profitable than contactless.

As for being fed up of needing a phone for everything, I’m a software dev and so burnt out with tech I have no patience with needing apps for parking, if I can’t pay cash or card I’m not visiting.

Also as per another forked thread… lots of people are finding stuff doesn’t work after updates, including medical stuff.

“Lots” of people? Are you sure about that?

In any case, we should differentiate between app updates and OS updates. Upgrading the OS always carries a risk of compatibility issues, especially if you’re an early adopter. App updates generally shouldn’t.

So just bypassing manufacturers .. going back to “a parking app” I’m totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.

As maccruiskeen says, you probably want security patches on anything that handles money.

That aside, there’s also the issue of testing. How practical is it to make sure that your app works with every incarnation of iOS / Android going back a decade, when most people only get two years out of a phone before getting sucked into their “free” upgrade?

it’s simply down to putting it out to tender and an app being cheaper hence more profitable than contactless.

It’s also a lot harder to pass on your ticket to someone else when you’re leaving.

So just bypassing manufacturers .. going back to “a parking app” I’m totally missing why it required a later version of any mobile OS.

Android went through some big changes early on, but now it’s a lot more sorted and most stuff now seems to require Android later than 4.3 or thereabouts. Barclays mobile banking app for example requires Android 5 which was released in 2014. I think things have been pretty stable since then. It does require iOS 14 though in Apple land which is from 2020 – is that part of the problem? Is iOS worse for this?

maccruiskeen

I’m guess for anything involving payment info theres an issue with security and whether an older OS is still getting updated and patched

I guess I should have written the longer version … (I do try and be less verbose)

At the time I had lots of stuff involving payment on the phone. (OK lots being somewhat subjective perhaps but not non) I think at the time I had ApplePay working for example… so it may have been “easier” or “cheaper” (or someone’s pet project)

So I’m guessing (based on being in similar meetings and having to keep quiet) someone did their best to gloss over this “requirement” or steer the non IT literate members away from asking

Stevextc – I have just skipped through the thread and I am a little puzzled. Your understanding of tech looks to be far superior than mine, yet I wouldn’t be without my smart phone. Its the most useful device I have.

I agree that with an ageing population and the decrease in real banks on the Highstreet and cash then some people will struggle with the tech. However, its just change and improvement, lots of people dont like change as they get older, and I guess the technology has changed within a generation. To me using cash and cards to pay for anything is now alien, I pay for everything using my phone.

I have a bank account on my phone that I’ve had for 20 odd years, only about £150 in it, I use it for occasional bike purchases. Lloyds never bother me or query me. Our other main bank is only available online and again is simple to use, although their security checks used to be over onerous it is now only face ID which is great.

My parents are in their 80’s, occasionally they ask for help on how to do things on computers etc, but once learned it is so simple.

Cougar

It’s also a lot harder to pass on your ticket to someone else when you’re leaving.

I think its better to quote the entire thing matt303uk wrote.
matt303uk

I think NT have changed their parking management provider, around here they’ve pulled all the units out that took cash or contactless and replaced them with cash only with a sign to use an app. I honestly can’t believe they thought an app would be easier that contactless, it’s simply down to putting it out to tender and an app being cheaper hence more profitable than contactless.

As for being fed up of needing a phone for everything, I’m a software dev and so burnt out with tech I have no patience with needing apps for parking, if I can’t pay cash or card I’m not visiting.

So passing the ticket on? Bad requirements gathering… no reason you can’t stick in the Reg as well?
but that’s really not the top thing is it?

As an organisation they need to consider revenue they lose due to people not having the App…. I don’t mean not able to use it or not having their phones I just mean turning up being willing to pay a reasonable fee knowing it’s going to the NT seeing you need YES another App and just thinking sod it I’ll go park or visit elsewhere that’s easier.

This specific occasion I’d arranged to meet people but there is plenty of on street parking in walking, let alone cycling distance. I was happy to pay a reasonable fee knowing it was for the NT… so no more and I no longer arrange to meet people in NT the car park so they miss that revenue as well.

They should also consider reputational cost… not just me and matt303uk but older people (than us even) who see this as alienating them from the NT.

FunkyDunc

Stevextc – I have just skipped through the thread and I am a little puzzled. Your understanding of tech looks to be far superior than mine, yet I wouldn’t be without my smart phone. Its the most useful device I have.

You probably cross posted but read matt303uk’s post ^^

I’m certainly burned out from it… but the other part is I’ve been on both sides of the fence in that I’ve worked for multi-national companies that are “tech consumers” and multi-national companies that are “tech providers”.

In both I’ve been told to keep my mouth shut or not ask difficult questions when someone is trying to sell something inappropriate to the client/end user or been I’ve told to modify the requirements to fit a product.

To use a non pure tech example… take “Smart Motorways” … Lets say theoretically I know a person who made the suggestion or was at least involved to conflate what the UK called Smart Motorways with what Germany calls Smart Motorways (with hard shoulder) and use the stats from the latter to justify the former.
The aim would have been to ensure they could sell the tech regardless… and they would have been under pressure to do so… they may well have then seen the deaths and like me decided to leave the industry but unlike me found something more worthwhile to do with their life.

Mis-selling things is nothing to do with tech, it’s been happening since forever. You just saw it happening in tech because that’s where you work.

Molgrips

Mis-selling things is nothing to do with tech, it’s been happening since forever. You just saw it happening in tech because that’s where you work.

Well sure, banking doesn’t seem to be any better 😉 (or used car sales)

Perhaps why I’m super-wary of the overlap 😉

A little less flippantly – many of the overlaps are about TOS / T&C etc. and pressuring people into something they don’t actually want whilst steering them away from reading the TOS and using terminology requires in depth knowledge of a SME level.

I guess an example is PPI – “Do you want the mortgage or not… it comes with PPI or you can go find another provider” vs “do you want to park or not… just download the app and put your card details in”

From an “insider” perspective it feels to me like the tech is being used as a tool for mis selling.

Well you still need to pay for parking, so your is going to get used somewhere.

I can see where you’re coming from. I don’t have many apps on my phone, those I have are those that make my life useful , without making it a lot more stressful. I have, as well as google stuff, a single parking app that covers most everything in the country I live. It occasionally updates, but it works most everywhere, reliably, and only really needs an update or recheck the security.. once a year. I have a similar app for getting public transport – needs an update once in a blue moon. And a banking app, that allows me to pay other people very fast, needs a security check every now and again. I’m not very hung up on the T&C’s, I’m not missold – I need parking or I don’t, and this saves money. Ditto the bus

This I have changed – I changed power supplier as they couldn’t bill properly, and kept trying to sell me stuff, at a rubbish price. So they get changed, and deleted. I also use a few apps to fast charge my car… ones that don’t cause me hassle get a lot more use than ones that are shonky and unreliable rubbish.

I don’t have your background, but for me it’s a balance of stuff that does what I want, when I want, with a tolerable level of pain (for want of a better word), if they’re more hassle I don’t want them, and if I don’t have them it’s a p.i.t.a. also.

Balance

Maybe working in the industries, you have has made you think about things ‘tech’ too much, or maybe I am just positively happily naive.

My wife wont use her mobile to pay for stuff, I will. She thinks its open to fraud. My thought on that is if the bank are allowing it, then its their risk if it goes wrong.

I dont use ‘social media’ although I do need it for my sons football club and my cycling club, but I share minimal data (although I appreciate that it may be more than I think)

I was just thinking I dont use many apps. But just looking at my phone there are probably 20 that I use almost daily, all of which make my life simpler or help it.

Back to your point – just go off grid and keep your money under your mattress…. can you still wander over to the council offices to pay council tax?

As an organisation they need to consider revenue they lose due to people not having the App….

If I were a betting man, I’d hazard that NT don’t police their parking areas at all. Rather they rely on honesty / donations.

FunckyDunc

Maybe working in the industries, you have has made you think about things ‘tech’ too much, or maybe I am just positively happily naive.

probably both … Molgrips isn’t wrong saying I see overselling and misrepresenation etc. in the industry I worked in.

My wife wont use her mobile to pay for stuff, I will. She thinks its open to fraud.

Yes and no… at one end anything connected to the internet… at the other way less than contactless assuming it requires a passcode/fingerprint/face recognition.

My thought on that is if the bank are allowing it, then its their risk if it goes wrong.

Well, there will be some legislation… (I haven’t read) and T&C etc. but its also a question of how inconvenient it being blocked is (you might be paid back eventually but the process may be more or less unpleasant)… and the more you have especially you don’t understand the more you open yourself to scams or fraud. (I often get scams pertaining to be from banks I don’t have… not only the one I do… which makes these somewhat easier to spot)

My mum had some scam and by chance I was visiting her but she was in tears dealing with the bank security.

I was just thinking I dont use many apps. But just looking at my phone there are probably 20 that I use almost daily, all of which make my life simpler or help it.

If your happy then no reason not to….

Back to your point – just go off grid and keep your money under your mattress….

Well I was looking to stay a step away from that…. e.g low tech solution / pre paid card etc.

can you still wander over to the council offices to pay council tax?

Not according to my council website… but someone said you could so its possible they are just not advertising it but have to or one council are less pushy than mine???

Well my In-Laws have smart phones but apart from WhatsApp almost no Apps. They use Halifax for banking after they fell out with Lloyds (Lloyds ended up paying a lot of money for their actions)

Apart from email and the very occasional WhatsApp message that’s the extent of their online activity.

Yes they do drive 6 miles to the Halifax branch but they live in a small South Cotswolds village and they do their food shopping on the same trip, they also have an account at a local garage for petrol/diesel, that they settle up every month by cheque. So yes its easily possible to not do banking online for the present time. But that would be my worst nightmare as I have averted a few cockups/overcharging situations by having my phone alert me of every transaction. It also makes paying people a lot less stressful & saves me hours of time and money.

But if you want to do it the low tech way, for now it seems possible.

Branch coverage can also be regional. Near us HSBC are quite good in small towns but my partner is RBS and not one for 50 miles.

HSBC you don’t need a app. I use a dongle.

If you want to reduce tech your best bet is to have a smart phone or tablet to use for banking but no data or contract. Keep it in a draw like dongle. Don’t use it for anything else. Use a basic non smart phone for actually carrying around.

can you still wander over to the council offices to pay council tax?

Not according to my council website… but someone said you could so its possible they are just not advertising it but have to or one council are less pushy than mine???

I wonder, does the oft-misunderstood notion of ‘legal tender’ apply here? If (IF) council tax is considered to be a debt then they cannot refuse a cash payment. AFAIK anyway.

I will add admire your aim and I don’t like the infiltration of apps either. I try and use a computer rather than apps where possible.

As my previous post I think the mid way is the phone / tablet in a draw solution. Keep it for admin and minimal use.

The Brick

I will add admire your aim and I don’t like the infiltration of apps either. I try and use a computer rather than apps where possible.

As my previous post I think the mid way is the phone / tablet in a draw solution. Keep it for admin and minimal use.

That’s not a bad shout … indeed I got an Amazon deal tablet (£20-£30?? I think) a few months ago to use as an appliance.

Honestly, I think you’re taking 2 minute jobs and turning them into tedious half-day long excursions that involve identification papers and travelling and the like.

The jobs are always depressing – do them the fastest most convenient way you can. 5 minutes of depression to pay your council tax is better than finding your ID papers, riding to <wherever> for 30 minutes, locking your bike up, standing in a queue whilst worrying if someone’s going to nick your bike, talking to someone who’ll be saying “why don’t you pay online? Have you tried paying online? Online is the most convenient method! Here – let me give you some information about how to pay online!”, before handing over all your ID, waiting whilst it’s checked, hoping you’ve got everything (and there’ll be times you won’t). “Do you want me to email you the receipt?”

By by walking into a branch and doing the do there you’re still accepting the “t’s&c’s” – it’s just that they don’t read them to you.

Honestly. You’ll be happier if you stop raging against the machine.

Honestly. You’ll be happier if you stop raging against the machine.

Some people do just like finding reasons to be unhappy….

I will add admire your aim and I don’t like the infiltration of apps either. I try and use a computer rather than apps where possible.

out of interest, how do you see that as being different?

out of interest, how do you see that as being different?

Im here for this answer. whats meant by “infiltration”? With bio and face id the phone is way more secure and any sort of tracking done on the phone will be done on a website too.

I mean, you call it a phone, but it’s computer with a phone app. And the for most the phone app is one that probably gets used the least..

chevychase

The jobs are always depressing – do them the fastest most convenient way you can. 5 minutes of depression to pay your council tax is better than finding your ID papers, riding to <wherever> for 30 minutes, locking your bike up, standing in a queue whilst worrying if someone’s going to nick your bike, talking to someone who’ll be saying “why don’t you pay online? Have you tried paying online? Online is the most convenient method! Here – let me give you some information about how to pay online!”, before handing over all your ID, waiting whilst it’s checked, hoping you’ve got everything (and there’ll be times you won’t). “Do you want me to email you the receipt?”

Worst bit is the “worrying if someone’s going to nick your bike” – the rest is a lot less so due mainly to me doing it like overshoots inlaws but on a bike.

I actual enjoy doing stuff manually … and sometimes its more convenient. [turning something on rather than finding a remote type convenient]
Another way I see it is I can cycle to the council offices (for example) maybe do some other stuff or I could use some App whilst I’m cycling on an indoor trainer ??

The worrying about someone nicking the bike I’m addressing separately as a council tax payer (perhaps ironically)

 but someone said you could so its possible they are just not advertising it

Lots of councils don’t want to do this because…High Street banks are disappearing. If you go to a council with a cheque or cash money, someone then has to go to a physical bank and pay it in…They have the same issue we all have, that’s it’s becoming very difficult to do.

‘to use as an appliance.’

That , I think, might be the best way to view a phone.

Another way I see it is I can cycle to the council offices (for example) maybe do some other stuff

I guess it then comes down to how “rural” you see your future location. I think it’s a 50 mile round trip to any council building where I could hand over cash. I could try to combine that with other reasons to go there but that would most likely start to involve a car rather than a bike and I try to drive as little as possible.

jam-bo

out of interest, how do you see that as being different?

I mean, you call it a phone, but it’s computer with a phone app. And the for most the phone app is one that probably gets used the least..

Short and perhaps flippant answer… I don’t turn up on on a ride and someone expects I have my laptop

Longer answer .. for me it’s the expectation that I have a phone, it’s turned on and I’m happy to carry it about and be contacted one way or another …. and because of that expectation that I’m happy to download and configure some App to do a (often one off) task then either have to delete it or manage it somehow.

A perhaps extreme example (but I’m using it because it wraps a lot up) is I’m sat in a field with a small group (6 or 7) of other parents having carried BBQ’s/Gazebo’s and the like to volunteer my time (and Gazebo)to a fund raising Fete.
After 1/2 hour we start wondering WTF … there should be 30-40 parents and some teachers and stuff… after an hour someone turns their phone on and calls the head teacher to be told “Oh we cancelled it on Facebook, you should have seen it”.

Neither myself or any of the others volunteered to use/see/install and agree to TOS for Facebook**… no-one made it clear that it was expected the communications by email or in person asking us to volunteer were no longer used because implicitly we must have FB and “Follow and Like” the school and instead I’m meant to sign up to a social media website and check that and when they decide on another mode of communication I’m meant to adopt that as well?

I think I remember this one as it was the first time perhaps I was blamed for not having a specific bit of tech/App/Social median as in “it’s your fault you didn’t know its cancelled you should have checked FB”.

I mean it could have been FB/Twitter/WhatsApp or whatever …. but it seems people (me) are expected to just adopt and mix and match Apps and stuff and have communication spread across platforms based on some whims.

joepud

Im here for this answer. whats meant by “infiltration”? With bio and face id the phone is way more secure and any sort of tracking done on the phone will be done on a website too.

I can’t answer for the Brick but above is what I see as App infiltration.
This pressure to download another App… to fix a problem I don’t have or to invent a term “marketing by exclusion” by which I mean getting others to make someone miss out if they don’t adopt your platform/App etc.

With bio and face id the phone is way more secure and any sort of tracking done on the phone will be done on a website too.

That depends what you call secure… you certainly have an illusion of security if you think access to your phone and your data is controlled by bio and face id. At your end the phone is locked and secured to you.. until you do some bio/face ID thing it’s still sharing your data with the rest of the world as permission has been granted to Apps that “require” or not this data to work.

If you ever use a properly MDM secured device you’ll realise how little works when services are only enabled by exception that have to be justified… this has proven to be a pain in the arse for some like Suella when she wants to share confidential and secret information with a mates wife for example.
(I’m using that as an illustration… I’m not condoning her actions.)

This is another aspect of the “infiltration” through the “marketing by exclusion”.
We get cooerced into accepting TOS or sharing data we probably wouldn’t given consideration because we are urged to “use this app” or “use that platform” in order not to be excluded.

Oh we cancelled it on Facebook, you should have seen it

How would you have preferred to have been told?

I think you are starting off from a negative premise here – that apps are bad, and that you are objecting to them becoming prevalent. But if you see them as a positive thing, then their prevalence is also positive.

For example, in your barbecue example, without some kind of bulk messaging platform someone would have had to ring round all the participants (and have their numbers) individually and either speak to them and leave a message. This is much more work for the organiser and also a lot more intrusive for those being called. The app in this case should have made life easier. I agree that FB isn’t necessarily the best platform for this though because many people have privacy concerns. WhatsApp is better for this.

Of course, they should have made it clear that the barbecue would be arranged on a specific platform beforehand rather than just assumed, but that’s not the app’s fault.

someone would have had to ring round all the participants (and have their numbers) individually and either speak to them and leave a message.

But that still mandates the ownership and use of a telephone. Why should someone be forced into that? Surely the correct approach would have been to despatch a series of messengers round all of the participants.

nickc

Lots of councils don’t want to do this because…High Street banks are disappearing. If you go to a council with a cheque or cash money, someone then has to go to a physical bank and pay it in…They have the same issue we all have, that’s it’s becoming very difficult to do.

So they could have a card reader ???
There are lots of easy and simple ways to solve this.
I live in a seperate “sub town” as it were… we have our own (dying) neighbourhood shopping centre(s) etc. and I think counter intuitively amazon lockers and click and collect have actually increased footfall.