Low-end electronic shifting

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  • Low-end electronic shifting
  • Hob Nob
    Member

    The latest Dura Ace Di2 looks lovely, especially with an internal battery.

    The Ultegra stuff not so great, the motors on the mechs make it look like they have a growth.

    I’ve ridden a few bikes with it, and keep having expensive thoughts about having a nice new road bike, the costs involved are enough to make my eyes water though.

    Premier Icon ahwiles
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    that ^^^ is a total chav-wagon.

    why do people love MASSIVE logos so much?

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    Does a dynamo really make any sense here? Considering the low weight and long life of the batteries. It’s a good AA replacement (because AAs are stoneaged pish) but I can’t see any point to it with modern batteries)

    I’m a bike nerd, so it’s interesting to me and I can see more point on road bikes than mtbs (since road bike shifting is so compromised with flappy levers, cable routing designed to cause the cables to bind, etc) but cables are a good solid solution.

    That Cervelo has bigger worries than whether its shifting components are ugly.

    Hob Nob
    Member

    I think it’s a road thing. They want everyone to know they are riding a CERVELO!

    It’s what’s putting me off a nice carbon road frame at the moment, I don’t want to be a mobile billboard. Tempts me to look at Ti and leave it bare just because its more subtle.

    whatnobeer
    Member

    I reckon this might be the start of something interesting. The electric shifting will already self correct trim etc, but what if you were to select your ideal cadence, and have the system change gears to match for you? Sort of like cruise control for your bike…

    Pretty sure a dude/company in the states has already done this. Along with sequential shifting, so always changing in to the next easier/harder gear even if it means shifting on the front and back.

    Premier Icon njee20
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    Fairwheel Bikes did that on an MTB, was really neat, clever too, had a bit of a chat about it. It wasn’t a pre-programmed sequence, it had been done to minimise shifting on the front mech.

    If the new Ultegra stuff is lighter than the outgoing one (which has a significant weight penalty over mechanical, and even more notable over Dura Ace mechanical, which it’s a similar price to), then they could be onto a winner. 9050 is beautiful, but just so expensive!

    Not sure about auto changing to maintain cadence: 1) I like to vary my cadence – what if you’re out of the saddle?! 2) I’m not sure random unexpected gear changes would be much fun! 3) Off road particularly your cadence changes constantly, how do you either have it keep up, or not change 5 seconds too late.

    Premier Icon Northwind
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    Some sort of CVT for bikes could be good but automatic shifting of derailleurs? No ta.

    Premier Icon flange
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    I love it when people say its only for MAMILS – someone should have a word with Froome about that. Get him to cut down on the carbs..

    I think total integration of shifting, power meter, bike computer including GPS and so on will eventually be made available, probably wirelessly otherwise it’ll all start getting a bit busy. Have the battery in the ‘Garmin’ type device power the shifters and power meter. No nasty cables, no battery mounted anywhere. Finished your ride, download it to Garmin Connect/Strava/your choice of web-based showing off and charge your battery for your shifters at the same time.

    I think those saying its a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist need to try it first. It really is very good. Yes, Ultegra does look a little clunky at the moment but if you’re bothered about aesthetics then buy DA.

    Does it have a place on an MTB? Maybe if you integrated it with the new electronic shock from Fox? In my opinion its of more benefit for racers rather than trail riders, consistent shifting which you don’t always get with mechanical (think muddy races).

    Mister P
    Member

    9070 Nick 😉

    Does anyone else remember Nexus Auto D? 3 speed automatic transmission for comfort bikes.

    I’m a bike nerd, so it’s interesting to me and I can see more point on road bikes than mtbs (since road bike shifting is so compromised with flappy levers, cable routing designed to cause the cables to bind, etc) but cables are a good solid solution.

    7900 was compromised (as is every other shimano groupset of that generation that followed), but 7800 is brilliant, and by all accounts 9000 is as good/better.

    Not sure about auto changing to maintain cadence: 1) I like to vary my cadence – what if you’re out of the saddle?! 2) I’m not sure random unexpected gear changes would be much fun! 3) Off road particularly your cadence changes constantly, how do you either have it keep up, or not change 5 seconds too late

    Not insurmountable though. keep the shift buttons and use them to vary cadence instead, click down and it drops 5rpm before you stand up to avoid drop kicking the guy behind, then a saddle sensor to automaticaly go back to your normal cadence when you sit down again?

    Would also need an input from the brakes/speed/gradient too, to stop it shifting into a really easy gear when coasting downhill or upto trafic lights. TBH it’s probably far too complicated to work well for everyone. It’d be a cool ‘mode’ for a training session (maintiain 90rpm for an hour and let the computer pick gears that make you do a 2x20min FTP workout regardless of headwinds, accelerations and gradient). But for just riding arround, races or club runs, 99% of people probbaly just flick gears subconciously based on 101 factors a computer program would struggle to resolve, how would it know you’re about to aproach a climb, even with a GPS/map data to base it’s decision on you might want to either ease off in anticipation of an attack, or up the speed to get to the front in anticipation of being dropped (basicly Cav and Froome would want entirely different modes).

    Premier Icon flange
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    Oh, and battery unit aside (which is quite big) Campag EPS is lovely. The action of the buttons is a fair bit nicer than Di2 and it looks more like a traditional groupset. Just a shame its 3.5k..

    As for automatic gears, I wouldn’t want it but on comfort/city bikes it might work. Maybe rather than having a set of gears, it uses an expanding cylinder similar to a 50cc scooter where the faster you go, the bigger the gear gets with no noticeable jump in ratios

    Premier Icon njee20
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    9070 Nick

    Right you are, my bad!

    It’d be a cool ‘mode’ for a training session (maintiain 90rpm for an hour and let the computer pick gears that make you do a 2x20min FTP workout regardless of headwinds, accelerations and gradient).

    That’s probably closer – link it to a power meter, that’s probably not all that difficult!

    Premier Icon ransos
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    I’ve ridden a few bikes with it, and keep having expensive thoughts about having a nice new road bike, the costs involved are enough to make my eyes water though.

    Ultegra Di2 is available for about £1k, the mechanical equivalent about £600. Ok, so £400 is a fair wedge, but not that bad in the context of a new bike purchase.

    I’m waiting until Shimano sort out an electronic system with hydraulic brakes…

    Premier Icon D0NK
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    I can see more point on road bikes than mtbs

    despite dodgy shifting on my mtbs I never have a problem with my (105) road bike.

    Auto trim forgot about that, good feature.

    Those who’ve ridden leccy shifting, what are the downshifts (up to a bigger cog) like? are they silky smooth rapidrise-esque eeeeeeease the chain into the pickup gates or more like the standard none-RR *snick* straight across?

    Premier Icon flange
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    Those who’ve ridden leccy shifting it what are the downshifts (up to a bigger cog) like? are they silky smooth rapidrise-esque eeeeeeease the chain into the pickup gates or more like the standard none-RR *snick* straight across?

    I can shift under full load up and down the block and its silky smooth

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
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    what happens when the batteries die? No shifting? For me that puts Di2 etc back into the niche category and not suitable for everyday utility type riding (eg commuting).

    Can’t believe this is still being trotted out!

    You get 500 MILES warning before it goes. 500 miles, even for a committed club rider is a couple of weeks. For a weekend warrior, it’s likely to be a month. Even then, it stops the auto trimming feature first, then it stop the front mech, then it stops the rear so you can still drop it into the granny ring, use the rear for another 50 miles. Should get most people home. Frankly, if you’re stupid enough to let your battery die, you deserve to be stranded miles from home!

    Dura Ace Di2 now weighs less than the mechanical Dura Ace.

    The extra benefit is that it frees up lots of space in the lever for hydraulic brake internals for when disc brakes become the norm. Completely cable free bike – internal electronics and hydraulic hose routings. Nice. 🙂

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
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    If battery life is a concern, how about wireless charging? You just park your bike on a powermat and it tops it up. As has been said, you don’t actually need to do it more than twice a year, so its never going to catch you unawares then.

    I wonder how hard it would be to make a version for Rohloff?…

    Premier Icon njee20
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    I can shift under full load up and down the block and its silky smooth

    +1, I’ve always tried to confuse it, to no avail, it just works really well, even the front will shift flawlessly when you’re out of the saddle. That’s just Ultegra too, I’ve not done any more than a car park test on DA.

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
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    Do the shifters move like conventional STIs, or are there a couple of buttons to press?

    tonyd
    Member

    Can’t believe this is still being trotted out!

    I wasn’t aware I was trotting anything out! I’ve never used Di2 and am unlikely to for some years to come, it was a valid question that was answered shortly afterwards. No need to call me Frankie or stupid.

    Premier Icon njee20
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    Do the shifters move like conventional STIs, or are there a couple of buttons to press?

    Buttons – the ‘smaller cog’ button is in the same place, the ‘bigger cog’ one is just in front of it. See here:

    The textured bit replaces the moving brake lever, the other button is behind. They are close together, I think they could have done more with that to be honest, they’ve tried to mimic the mechanical shifter too closely.

    I must say I don’t get on with the ergonomics of it, but I still use 7800 STIs on my bike, and really like the more pronounced hook at the front and the external cable as a place to put my thumb.

Viewing 21 posts - 41 through 61 (of 61 total)

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