Anyone done these?
Got a mate who’s currently doing Keto and seems to have dropped a fair bit, seems to be quite a well balanced diet – chicken, veg, eggs etc..
Also remember a mate from years back did Atkins – he seemed to live on cheese & bacon……

I could really do with cutting out carbs.

I did it last year and lost 16kg in about 6 months. Lots of veg, chicken and eggs (and a salad every workday).
Put a few kg back on but sure I can do it again if needed.

Eggs really are your friend.

IME (and i believe also why not recommended by any major health organisation) the keto diet works, but requires a level of understanding, commitment and attention to strict details that is beyond most people, and when you slip out of the “keto” zone it becomes a very unhealthy unbalanced diet.

Don’t cut out carbs, just get them from ‘green’ vegetables rather than from bread, pasta, spuds etc.

Aye, cos living on cheese and bacon, as good as it sounds, is gonna work wonders for your health! 🤣

Yeah, it works, requires a lot of creativity (or a high boredom threshold) to keep it going for a longer period.

Roasted veg, or rather cauliflower, broccoli and courgette figured pretty strongly, along with omelettes, fry ups, pecan nuts, chorizo, and coffee with double cream. Drink lots of water, particularly in the first few days until it kicks in, during which you will piss like a racehorse and feel a bit rubbish. After that you won’t get hungry during the day all that much.

Riding wise, if you are like me, your power will drop a bit, so you’ll find yourself spinning an easier gear on the climbs and unable to push as hard and as long as before. But you won’t need to stop for food. I was at one point riding a whole day on a handful of pecans and walnuts and a bit of salami.

Aye, cos living on cheese and bacon, as good as it sounds, is gonna work wonders for your health!

While a carb-high diet that also includes cheese and bacon might not be the best, I’m not convinced that the regular ‘high fat is bad’ mantra holds true in all circumstances. Sugar, particularly processed sugar, is IMO much, much worse. Of course, there is the separate argument that bacon equals death because of the processing, but well, it’s bacon. 🙂

I’ve been doing this for the last few weeks now and have found good results in general. First few days I thought I had a urine infection as didn’t read up all the side effects. Literally couldn’t stop going to the toilet.

I wasn’t a big guy in the first place, but have always accumulated all weight around my stomach and love handles and wanted to get rid of these. It’s made a significant difference in the 3-4 weeks I’ve been doing it. Initially I lost about .5 stone (bear in mind, I’m about 11.5 stone) which was mainly water. Since then it’s plateaued, which I’m cool with as the goal was not to lose weight, more to lost fat.

I echo the experiences of losing energy. First big ride with climbing on the diet had me nearly collapsing….I feel better now though as my body has adapted.

I lost weight easily on an atkins style keto diet. It was very effective. When I returned to a normal diet I got symptons like IBD so It’s a no for me.

It does work, but it’s a bit of a PITA.

As said, don’t eliminate all carbs, just white ones. This basically means filling up on vegetables (not potatoes), meat and beans. You will need to cook a lot, it’s very difficult if you aren’t in control of your own menu.

I found I needed lots of spicy and tasty food to keep my palette interested – you think potatoes are boring until you do without them and start to crave carbs. Don’t try and make ‘fake’ carbs with substitutes e.g. cauliflower rice; instead just eat foods that don’t require faking. So have your sausages and gravy with cauliflower cheese, far nicer than cauliflower mash. Also make a curry but stick a couple of tins of chickpeas or lentils in then eat like soup from a bowl. Likewise beany chilli con carne. I cook lots of veg and things like a chicken Kiev or a naked burger, then lots of seasoned boiled or roasted veg.

Having used Weight watchers to the tune of -15kg so far this year. I suggest a reasonable diet which still has carbs in it, admittedly reduced, but not gone altogether.

I have toast with my eggs every morning, although I have developed a sourdough (home or bakery made) habit, sticking to quality over quantity. I’ve had to cut down a lot on beer and sugary snacks, but they still form a part of my week, just not as much as they once did.

Keto, Atkins, all seem to kick into starvation, so you lose for a while, crave what you miss and gain it all back once the fad is over. I suspect Keto works if you are really committed, but most people probably aren’t!

It does work, but it’s a bit of a PITA.

Seems so.

I got symptons like IBD

stick a couple of tins of chickpeas

Chickpeas (and other legumes) are surprisingly high in carbs. Obviously not a problem unless you are trying to get into a proper ketogenic state. I was even steering clear of gravy (or at least counting it properly when adding up carbs).

When I returned to a normal diet I got symptons like IBD so It’s a no for me.

I have cut out a lot of carbs, used to eat a lot of bread, now I don’t. If I eat much more than a slice it plays havoc with my stomach. I guess you get used to digesting it but when you re-introduce it, your stomach doesn’t like it.

Chickpeas (and other legumes) are surprisingly high in carbs

Yes, but they are very low GI, which is what the iDave diet was all about. But what’s interesting is that it’s easy to eat a huge serving of rice, whereas you just can’t eat that many chickpeas.

which is what the iDave diet was all about.

I thought that was more High Cost, Low Product? 🙂

I can see both approaches working – certainly post-Keto, I try to stick to low GI carbs with main meals – sweet potato rather than potato, no bread or pasta – and save sugary stuff for during exercise. Some weight does creep on, but then I have a few weeks where I get into proper ketosis more regularly.

I’m never going to be a racing snake, but it keeps weight manageable for riding.

Keto 🙂 Going on a diet is a bit old fashioned, I thought the modern thinking was all these diets are just pish and just another way of restricting food groups for no good reason and generally unsustainable in the long term.

Go easy on the chocolate and ice-cream, a maximum of 4 pie and chips per week (and fill half your plate with vegetables when you do). Try and eat fruit and vegetables everyday, but don’t stress if you have the odd day when this doesn’t happen. Try and eat foods that make you feel full. Move more, eat when you’re hungry. Try and find healthyish meals that you ‘want’ and are not just eating because they are healthy. Be a ball of energy and enjoy life.

Carbs aren’t the work of the devil, they’re GREAT.

Low carb / high fat has certainly worked for me. It’s not Keto, it’s just reducing the amount of carbs significantly. I just find that fat and protein make me feel full for longer so I feel hungry less often and therefore eat less (satisfying the eat less/move more rule).

I thought that was more High Cost, Low Product

It was zero cost, the product was posted on the internet for free….

Been on LCHF/keto since Jan, dropped around 15kg, plus I do 16:8 ish fasting, so last meal around 7pm and skip breakfast eat again around 12, sometime later. If I do have a snack in the morning it’s peanut or almond butter.
Dietdoctor.com is a good place to start.
It can be restrictive but many ways around it.
As one of the comments above , when you are fat adapted, using ketones as energy you can go for long periods without eating.
Lots of good stuff on YouTube , but also lots of bad stuff, so be careful what you watch

2016 top story: Complete Idiot’s Guide to Tim Noakes Diet – banting made simple

Home Page 2 Example

https://www.food24.com/News-and-Guides/Food-in-Focus/Top-10-low-carb-high-fat-recipes-for-banting-diet-20140217

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/8727466-why-we-get-fat

I could really do with cutting out carbs.

then cut out carbs. don’t eat sugar

Did it for a couple of months a few years ago and really hated it. Made me obsess over food in a way I’ve never done before and I never got to that stage where you stop feeling hungry, there’s always something missing. I lost a bit of weight but it felt so unhealthy. I guess some people like the black and white food restrictions but that’s what made me obsess over everything – checked every label and was paranoid about taking in any sugar. I’d rather stick to something balanced and sustainable long term.

Tallpaul

Member
Don’t cut out carbs, just get them from ‘green’ vegetables rather than from bread, pasta, spuds etc.

Just don’t eat sh!tty white starchy carbs – spuds, white bread, white rice, white pasta, white sugars…

A side effect of a strict vegan diet is keto breath and keto crotch. Google it. But your gut needs certain carbs to function normally. There’s lots of evidence, new and emerging, about gut balance and effects on mood. Worth a read, even if it confuses you. I get the feeling some think they’ll be the next Ninja Warrior just because they stopped eating toast 2 weeks ago.

Simple stopping carbs is not the answer, as has been mentioned, carbs are in many things, not just places you’d expect them. As a T1 diabetic for nearly 30 years, you’d be amazed where the carbs are, where the sugars are and the effect on (for me at least) blood sugar levels which can be screwy (for me) much longer than 2-3 hours post prandial.

<Just don’t eat sh!tty white starchy carbs – spuds, white bread, white rice, white pasta, white sugars…>

Ha comedy, see this is the problem, remember a few years ago lots of people were cutting out gluten for no good reason just because 0.9% (or whatever) of the population have a gluten intolerance. These may have an effect on you as you are diabetic, but labelling starchy cards as sh!tty is just wrong. What’s wrong with potato’s and rice as part of a balanced diet. Again, restricting/demonising food groups isn’t the way to have a long term sustainable balanced diet.

A side effect of a strict vegan diet is keto breath and keto crotch. Google it.

Not sure I’m brave enough to google “keto crotch”.

What’s wrong with potato’s and rice as part of a balanced diet.

He’s not looking to eat a balanced diet though, he wants to slim down whilst still getting nutrition. There’s nothing wrong with eliminating certain foods for a while to subvert your body’s feedback mechanisms, as long as when you reach your target weight you adjust sensibly and don’t just give up and pig out.

Re good carbs – there’s a lot of evidence that the nutrients in whole grains are very good for your guts, so if you need starchy food have some wholegrain.

hat’s what made me obsess over everything – checked every label and was paranoid about taking in any sugar.

It’s not really necessary. It’s not all or nothing – a bit of ketchup on your eggs or whatever doesn’t ruin the whole thing.

That’s fair enough, as temporary measure to slim down. It’s the random labelling of some foods as being bad, when they are really not that gets on my goat.

Kebabs? Like a stronger lamb flavour.

I wonder how accurate the food labels are for the various calories, fat content etc. Must be hard to calculate them.

a bit of ketchup on your eggs or whatever doesn’t ruin the whole thing.

Actually it does, it doesn’t take much sugar to take you out of ketosis, and that is where keto/atkins becomes a very unbalanced and unhealthy diet, and it takes 2 or 3 days to get back in ketosis.

This is the thing, keto/atkins is different to a sensible and achievable diet of cutting out “white” carbs, getting plenty of colourful veg, protein and a moderate amount of healthy fat, and in this case a small amount of simple carbs every now and then doesn’t destroy the diet.

This is why health organisations shy away from recommending this kind of diet, it is so easy to get wrong.

Yes, it does ruin ketosis, you are right, but I wasn’t talking about that. But if you are following low GI or iDave (low insulin-genic) then it doesn’t matter much as you say.

The benefit of iDave’s idea was that it was simple – just no white carbs, eat everything else til you are full, no need to count calories or analyse labels.

This is why health organisations shy away from recommending this kind of diet, it is so easy to get wrong.

there are other more prevalent reasons than that one but your a believer so ill leave you to it .

https://nypost.com/2019/07/02/could-a-mandatory-keto-diet-improve-us-military-performance/

The iDave eating plan worked. I lost 3 stone. Refried beans are you friend.

All this seems a bit…. weird… and unhealthy somehow?

Could you just not eat less cake and go for a bike ride a bit more?
That’s what I do when I want to lose weight and it works fine.

keto and atkins are not recommended by healthcare professionals as its an incredibly poor and unhealthy diet increasing your risk of stroke, heart attack etc.

jagain

Member
keto and atkins are not recommended by healthcare professionals as its an incredibly poor and unhealthy diet increasing your risk of stroke, heart attack etc.

. Wondering if you can explain why keto or atkins increases your risk of stroke and heart attacks? The research out there certainly points to the contrary.

Think i’d rather listen to people who have studied and understand metabolism, biochemistry and fat metabolism or those that have been treating people with obesity for significant amount of tim like Dr David Ludwig or Richard Feinman.

Feinmans papers on low carb

Dietary carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management: Critical review and evidence base

The benefits of carbohydrate restriction in diabetes are immediate and well documented. Concerns about the efficacy and safety are long term and conjectural rather than data driven. Dietary carbohydrate restriction reliably reduces high blood glucose, does not require weight loss (although is still best for weight loss), and leads to the reduction or elimination of medication. It has never shown side effects comparable with those seen in many drugs

Carbohydrate Restriction has a More Favorable Impact on the Metabolic Syndrome than a Low Fat Diet

the Carb restricted diet subjects showed more favorable responses to alternative indicators of cardiovascular risk: postprandial lipemia (−47%), the Apo B/Apo A‐1 ratio (−16%), and LDL particle distribution. Despite a threefold higher intake of dietary saturated fat during the CRD, saturated fatty acids in TAG and cholesteryl ester were significantly decreased, as was palmitoleic acid

Low-carbohydrate nutrition and metabolism

Cardiovascular disease risk factors
As shown in Table 3, the outpatient obesity studies found a consistent reduction in fasting serum triacylglycerols and a fairly consistent increase in HDL cholesterol, but little change in total or LDL cholesterol, in the LCD groups. Two of these studies published examinations of the fasting serum lipid concentrations by using a lipid subfraction technique, and both found an average change in LDL-cholesterol type from small LDL to large LDL cholesterol, which corresponded with a decrease in LDL particle concentration for subjects

The reason why atkins and low carb work is because it plays into the important role particular hormones have on the body and metabolising food. These are insulin (regulates fat, carb usage) ghrelin (hunger hormone) and leptin (satiety hormone). Low carb is really good at controlling hunger. This is why the eat less move more method often isn’t sustainable. You will slow down your metabolism and doing exercise will often lead to more hunger. It;’s worth looking at the people that have been on the programme the biggest loser. Most have put the weight back on

Essentially when insulin is high in the body ,fat cannot be oxidised as well
Diabetes happens when cells are resistant to insulin

Notice you didn’t reply to the other thread on this

Intermittent fasting, keto and timing of exercise

<T

<p>TJ,</><p>Lots of pseudo science around this. Most of it utter bollox. Have a read round the peer reviewed literature for the dangers including increased risk of cardivascular disease, insulin resistance, non alchol fatty liver disease and that the weight loss effects like with all fad diets are only temporary.</p>

<p>Yep. I have</p>
<p>Long-term effects of a ketogenic diet in obese patients</p>

<p>The present study shows the beneficial effects of a long-term ketogenic diet. It significantly reduced the body weight and body mass index of the patients. Furthermore, it decreased the level of triglycerides, LDL cholesterol and blood glucose, and increased the level of HDL cholesterol. Administering a ketogenic diet for a relatively longer period of time did not produce any significant side effects in the patients. Therefore, the present study confirms that it is safe to use a ketogenic diet for a longer period of time than previously demonstrated.</p>

<p>Long term effects of ketogenic diet in obese subjects with high cholesterol level.</p>

<p>This study shows the beneficial effects of ketogenic diet following its long term administration in obese subjects with a high level of total cholesterol. Moreover, this study demonstrates that low carbohydrate diet is safe to use for a longer period of time in obese subjects with a high total cholesterol level and those with normocholesterolemia.</p>

Consuming a hypocaloric high fat low carbohydrate diet for 12 weeks lowers C-reactive protein, and raises serum adiponectin and high density lipoprotein-cholesterol in obese subjects.

<p>Relative to the LFHC group, the HFLC group had greater improvements in blood lipids and systemic inflammation with similar changes in body weight and composition. This small-scale study suggests that HFLC diets may be more beneficial to cardiovascular health and inflammation in free-living obese adults compared to LFHC diets.</p>

Can you explain why a high fat diet or the presence of ketones in the body present risks around cardivascular disease, insulin resistance, non alcohol fatty liver disease?
If you read about human metabolism you’ll realise it’s carbohydrates that trigger insulin and leads to insulin resistance. Also if you are on high carbohydrate diet you are also on a high fat one because the body will convert it to fat (triglycerides)

I wonder how accurate the food labels are for the various calories, fat content etc. Must be hard to calculate them.

It’s a bit rubbish tbh when you realise the measurement of calories is physics experiment . 1 calorie will raise 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius. Think it’s a bit more complicated when applied to human metabolism