Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 89 total)
  • Low carb diets.
  • Solo
    Free Member

    how does that relate to your answer?
    As others have pointed out. The lower the amount of insulin your body has to deliver to deal with what you have consumed, the sooner the insulin should subside to levels which permit the use of stored fat. But in addition to this, if you’ve consumed less sugar/fewer carbs then there will be fewer carbs to store, should you not use them all.

    Today’s, western / developed world, diet is too high in processed carbs, imo. Therefore I view these types of discussions as being about getting back to a normal level of carbohydrate consumption, with the premise that carb consumption might be inversely proportional to how refined those carbs are. So, the more refined / processed the carbs are, the fewer of them, I should consume. However, I’d not cut anything out entirely. Its just an acceptance that I can’t consume chocolates and/or beer all the time, as in every day.

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    The lower the amount of insulin your body has to deliver to deal with what you have consumed, the sooner the insulin should subside to levels which permit the use of stored fat.

    So, intake quantity problem, no?

    Solo
    Free Member

    So, intake quantity problem, no?

    No, glycemic load. The higher the GI, the greater insulin response.

    Right, I’ve got to go now. Have fun.

    🙂

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    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    man, just when it was getting interesting. (btw GI, or GL? they’re different)

    anyway, our scenario; more insulin response = more blood glucose stored, if carbs are simple.

    but wait, because, later, blood glucose drops = energy required = stored energy gets released.

    now, in the process of blood glucose whizzing up and down, you’re dealing with more blood glucose variance, which has its own problems (hunger, mood) – but assuming you’re eating the same amount of carbs, of one type or another, same overall body weight effect

    Or, to put it another way, intake problem… Simple carbs make you hungrier and grouchier, but they don’t make you fatterer, unless you eat more of them (which is tempting, cause you’re hungry and grouchy).

    Moses
    Full Member

    the brain needs carbs to generate serotonin but can only do this when there is an absence of protein in the blood stream.

    Jeebus. Since the bloodstream is normally a solution of dozens of types of proteins, just how does that work?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Low blood glucose is a trigger for appetite afaik.

    I presume your approach would thus tend toward minimising insulin release and maximising lipase response, through food quantity & food type?

    Credit where it’s due, the low insulin idea was posted by iDave. And yes that s the idea. Insulin inhibits lipolysis, so even if you eat fewer calories you will find it harder to use fat stores if there is insulin ffloating around your blood.

    As for riding fasted – I’ve done a lot of it and got much better at it, but I recently found I still go shitloads faster carbed up.

    _tom_
    Free Member

    I think you lot are worrying/nitpicking about the fine details too much. I lost about 11-12 stone without even thinking about food macros or carbs. Only reason I looked into keto was because I plateau’d a bit and was interested in trying it. When I was in Canada I pretty much lived off microwave lasagne, rice, pasta and beer and still lost 3st in 2 months 😆

    littlemisspanda
    Free Member

    As for riding fasted – I’ve done a lot of it and got much better at it, but I recently found I still go shitloads faster carbed up.

    Yep. I found that, so if I know I’m going for a long ride, the night before is plenty of sweet potato, potatoes, etc.

    I will sometimes have white rice as well, as this is a fairly “safe” starch, that doesn’t have the problems of other grains in terms of digestibility. But, at the end of the day, it’s bulk food, it’s not that nutritious. And that is my main problem with grains in general. Ditto for sugar – plenty of calories, but no nutritional bang for your buck.

    “Conventional nutrition”, i.e. the eatwell plate, didn’t work well for me, and quitting on the grains, sugar, and booze was the only thing that helped me lose stomach fat as well.

    There’s a whole host of other things you can look into as well, for example I try to minimise my intake of PUFAs (polyunsaturated fatty acids) from seed oils like canola, sunflower et, and I use coconut oil for frying, ghee, and even (shock horror) bacon and duck fat. I also try and stay away from soy, although I do use gluten free tamari soy sauce sometimes for flavouring.

    Basically, if something needs a lot of processing to become edible, it’s not food.

    Better food = nutritional needs satisfied with less = reduced calorie intake without deprivation.

    Our appetites go crazy because the highly processed food we eat does not provide us with the nutrition we need, so we stay hungry, our bodies crave more of it, and we eat more of it and get fat.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    I don’t carbo load before a big ride. If it’s going to be long I want my body to be burning fat. I only carb up now for short very hard sessions.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    I think you lot are worrying/nitpicking about the fine details too much. I lost about 11-12 stone without even thinking about food macros or carbs. Only reason I looked into keto was because I plateau’d a bit and was interested in trying it.

    This is a great point worth remembering if all you want to do is shift some weight (especially if it’s quite a lot). Following something like the iDiet works great without having to think too hard because a) you naturally end up eating less and b) you eat better (less crap)

    I don’t carbo load before a big ride. If it’s going to be long I want my body to be burning fat. I only carb up now for short very hard sessions.

    Pretty sure carb loading in any circumstance (except where you’ve literally depleted all stored glycogen) is bunk, but if it works for you for whatever reason then that’s groovy! 🙂

    winston_dog
    Free Member

    Basically, if something needs a lot of processing to become edible, it’s not food.

    Spot on.

    If you think about it bread is the original processed food. You need to take the grain, grind it up, mix it with other chemicals and then cook it for quite sometime to make it edible.

    However, wheat and corn are such massive parts of global “agribusiness” that is almost unthinkable to reduce their consumption in the Western World. What would Kellogs and Nestle make their billions from?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    except where you’ve literally depleted all stored glycogen

    Well when dieting my glycogen stores are generally low, which makes it harder for me to do intense exercise. So I tend to drink something before hand so that my blood is fully of glucose and insulin when I start. This means that I can get a lot more energy going into my cells and I can work much harder for the short duration.

    Basically, if something needs a lot of processing to become edible, it’s not food.

    Not entirely convinced by that. Lots of processed foods start off as unprocessed foods, it’s the processing itself that strips out goodness. And lots of natural foods need to be significantly altered by processing for us to eat them or get the most nutrition from them. Cooking is pretty significant processing!

    There’s a school of thought that says the human invention of cooking and processing food are responsible for our success as a species. Alice Roberts seems to subscribe to it, at least.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    If you think about it bread is the original processed food. You need to take the grain, grind it up, mix it with other chemicals and then cook it for quite sometime to make it edible.

    Hear hear. It’s exactly the same with cereal, and the only reason people think these products are healthy is because advertising tells them that they are. It’s a massive brainwashing campaign that’s been going on for decades purely to sell a product to the masses. Right, I’ll take the tinfoil hat off now! 😆

    wrecker
    Free Member

    You think losing fat is hard?
    Try gaining muscle whilst staying lean. It’s a minefield, especially when trying to avoid dairy…

    It’s exactly the same with cereal, and the only reason people think these products are healthy is because advertising tells them that it is

    Low Gi museli is pretty un-****ed with though is it not?

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Well when dieting my glycogen stores are generally low, which makes it harder for me to do intense exercise.

    I guess that makes sense, although to me dieting (as in calorie restriction) and intense exercise are mutually exclusive activities. Personally I’ve found I need to concentrate on one or the other or I will fail at both!

    Low Gi museli is pretty un-****ed with though is it not?

    Yep, but 99.9% of the time that is not what is being pushed with the advertising.

    _tom_
    Free Member

    Cereal tastes nice though. And doesn’t have too many calories if you get something reasonably good.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    Breakfast cereals, with the exception of muesli, are pretty processed crap anyway, that’s fairly obvious. And yes it’s a pretty crappy marketing campaign.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    Cereal tastes nice though.

    Some. Not as tasty as eggs & bacon though.

    Also, it’s odd when you think about it that we as a society have been conditioned to eat this very specific type of food at a specific time of the day for no real reason other than the TV adverts tell us to…

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    Ah, Carb loading.

    A fine excuse to put away a small mountain of bolognese 🙂

    Ultimately, low carb or whatever, it’s whatever works for you, managing hunger on reduced calories is the trick.

    _tom_
    Free Member

    Yeah, although the novelty of bacon & egg does wear off after a while.

    bjj.andy.w
    Free Member

    Been on a low carb lifestyle now for 4-5 years. Less than 30g of carbs a day Mon-sat then a carb up on a Sunday (which coincides with my big ride, be that road or mtb) 5 small meals a day consisting of protein and fat. Three of those also have some form of green veg in them as well. My carb up consists of anything that takes my fancy ( within moderation ) reason for this is that in my eyes if you deny yourself things you’ve always liked you end up saying “stuff this” and go back to your old (bad) eating habits. If I fancy a choccy bar I know I can have one on a Sunday. Energy wise I never have a problem during the week. The only times I start to suffer if I go for a ride that lasts longer than 3-4 hrs but during the week that doesn’t happen very often. Some people on here my pull my eating habits to shreds but it works for me and that’s all I’m bothered about. 😉

    wrecker
    Free Member

    I thought that a cheat day was important to stop your metabolism slowing down?

    winston_dog
    Free Member

    managing hunger on reduced calories is the trick.

    I disagree to some extent. When you eat less carb hunger is easer to mange overall.

    I have found that since I have reduced my carbs and only eat low GI stuff, I don’t get the really strong hunger pangs. Because of my job I sometimes have to go without food for relatively prolonged periods and it is not a massive problems now. Where before I would of grabbed a chocolate bar or crisps to keep me going I can wait until I can get to “proper” food.

    littlemisspanda
    Free Member

    Breakfast cereals, with the exception of muesli, are pretty processed crap anyway

    Mueslis and granolas often have a ton of added sugar/sweetener, despite being marketed as a health food. Even the low GI ones. They might have honey or agave as a sweetener instead of sugar, but it’s still sugar, at the end of the day, and on top of all the sugar in the dried fruit you get in muesli.

    not aimed at you at all molly the ads for these things just make me mad!!

    however, buying plain oats, fruit, nuts/seeds etc and making your own is definitely better – I make granola with toasted nuts and seeds, coconut flakes, and add raisins for a bit of sweetness. I don’t do oats, because I’m an avoider of grains in general, but as grains go, I don’t think they’re the worst of the bunch.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Mueslis and granolas often have a ton of added sugar/sweetener, despite being marketed as a health food. Even the low GI ones.

    [quote]
    Incorrect. Shite like Alpen does. Dorset cereals simply museli has no added sugar. At all.
    https://www.dorsetcereals.co.uk/things-we-make/muesli/simply-delicious-muesli/

    molgrips
    Free Member

    LMP I know some muesli type stuff does have sugar in it. As any familiar with my STW persona will know, I am the kind of person to read the ingredients 🙂

    littlemisspanda
    Free Member

    Dorset cereals has barley malt extract in there. That’s a sweetener.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    ^^^ yep, that’s the type of sugar used in beer-making. The yeast turns it into alcohol.

    As that Dorset cereal says, contains “naturally occurring” sugar, not no sugar. Fruit, dates in particular, are pretty high in sugar as well.

    wrecker
    Free Member

    Oh bollocks. 😡
    Lying bastids.

    As that Dorset cereal says, contains “naturally occurring” sugar, not no sugar. Fruit, dates in particular, are pretty high in sugar as well.

    Yeah, I’m aware that there’s fructose in the dried fruit. There is in LMS’ museli too. But it does say “no added sugar”.

    winston_dog
    Free Member

    All carb turns into glucose in the blood anyway. The only difference is how quickly this happens.

    Table sugar isn’t that bad and has a GI of about 50. A jacket potato has a GI of 85.

    According to google Barley Malt Extract has a GI of 42. Similar to table sugar.

    zilog6128
    Full Member

    But it does say “no added sugar”.

    This is the problem I have with the way processed foods are marketed. They don’t lie, they just don’t tell you the whole truth.

    The implication here – although they don’t explicitly say it, of course – is that “natural” sugar is ok but “added” sugar is bad. However the truth (as winston points out above ^^^) is there’s very little, if any, difference. (with the caveat that you will get more micronutrients from things like malt extract).

    heavyman
    Free Member

    Most good healthy lower carb diets maybe don’t actually explain but processed carbs are the enemy, anything which has to be ‘made’ or bought in a bakers is bad carbs. Good carbs are complex carbs and of course some natural simple carbs.
    Have a look at the ZONE diet it was/is developed for health, cure for diabetes and also athletes see HERE

    If you want a precise analysis of what to eat then you should get a metabolic typing done (quite expensive) and you will find out exactly what foods you should and should not eat.

    Basically though if you tend to put on weight easily Endomorphs and Mesomorphs – you should stay away from pastries, white rice, white pasta and bread, except for German Rye bread, which has a high toilet visiting quality….. If you are an Ectomorph you can get away with just about any food although if you eat crap your performance will be crap!

    mrmonkfinger
    Free Member

    If you want a precise analysis of what to eat then you should get a metabolic typing done

    Alternatively, you could try water divining, a seance, or at a push, joining the church of scientology.

    It’s grade A horseshite. Just FYI, etc.

    The zone diet food plan is decent enough (although it too is sadly dressed up to try and make it all sciencey sounding, mainly it seems because you can’t sell a diet book unless it has a gimmick).

    molgrips
    Free Member

    It’s grade A horseshite

    Explain?

    hilldodger
    Free Member

    Metabolic typing, a sound principle twisted into a sales pitch 😕

    all the diet addicts should have a read of either “the health delusion” or the “diet delusion” both well referenced critiques of the “healthy lifestyle industry”

    _tom_
    Free Member

    imo everyone should just read Racing Weight and follow the DQS system. It’s by far the best “diet” I’ve followed (ie I’ve seen the best results in the shortest amount of time) and is actually sustainable unlike these fads.

    winston_dog
    Free Member

    actually sustainable unlike these fads.

    tom – What is unsustainable about reducing carbs and eating low GI foods?

    You can eat meat, fish, eggs. Loads of vegatables and salad. You have to watch what fruit to eat but berries, apples, pears, cherries all have relatively less sugar than other fruits.

    The only difficulty is that everyone wants to sell you starchy carbs when away from home, not a lot of choice but a sandwich for lunch at most places. You just need to prep your own food at home or have a salad with no bread.

    _tom_
    Free Member

    You just need to prep your own food at home or have a salad with no bread.

    That’s a big part of why it’s not sustainable for me. I work long shifts and making two half decent meals a day to take in to work gets very old very quick. Especially when the fat loss results aren’t even worth it. Sandwiches, soups etc are much easier and can be bought if I can’t be arsed to make anything.

    If I worked from home it’d be easier, but I don’t.

    fwiw I never eat potatoes or pasta any more as I don’t think they’re any good, but I still love brown bread and sandwiches are pretty much the most convenient form of lunch!

    granny_ring
    Full Member

    Just having a quick browse in between giving the shed another coat of paint so not had time to read all the thread.
    If it’s been mentioned sorry, but OP check out the fasting diet if you haven’t already.

    molgrips
    Free Member

    The thing about eating low GI or slow carb or low insulin or whatever, is that it’s not a temporary diet, it’s just knowledge about how foods affect your body. It means that you just minimise glycaemic load wherever possible by choosing the lowest GI food you can for any meal.

    So if you can only have a sandwich for lunch, just grab a wholemeal sandwich or a wrap (tortillas are low GI). Overall you can still improve a great deal on a typical Western diet, so you’ll still lose weight.

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