I was in the garden this morning feeling a bit sorry for a Jasmine plant that we managed to coax into surviving last summer.. It’s been trying to flower on and off for months, and was just about to go for it when the first snow hit.

After the thaw it looked very pleased and tried again, but it’s starting to look despondent now as the second thaw begins. One of our bamboos started sprouting but the new shoots died in the cold.

With another possible cold snap predicted and the food supply network already struggling a bit, will this unusual weather have any effect on food production? I guess a lot of UK crops would normally be sown around this sort of time.

How reliant is our food supply on UK grown produce?

I’m going to chuck in another question as this topic might attract the sort of people who take an interest in such things – I remember recently reading (a meme probably) that the gulf stream is now properly kaput, and not even really a stream as such any more. Is there any truth in this, and if so is there a realistic possibility of real climate change for the UK, prevailing Siberian easterlies, disturbances to the regular pattern of the seasons, moar snow! and so on?

Good.. that’s some rock solid data that you’ve managed to contribute there hols2 🙂

well done!

Although some early blossoming trees started to show last week (a few of my willow for example) none of the fruit trees or vines around here were starting to flower so shouldn’t have suffered as a result of the late frost and snow.

I think Brexit will have a bigger effect on UK food production…

[url=https://flic.kr/p/23rbnZL]Blue Passports[/url] by Ben Freeman, on Flickr

The simple answer is that there are no long-term implications of the current weather.

(BTW this is my professional area)

 so shouldn’t have suffered as a result of the late frost and snow.

It’s perfectly normal for there to be snow and frosts in March, it’s not ‘late’

It snowed in April a few years ago, the world didn’t end.

It snowed in April a few years ago, the world didn’t end.

That’s what you think.

We’ve been in a simulation for the last year or so.

I was in the garden this morning feeling a bit sorry for a Jasmine plant that we managed to coax into surviving last summer

Feeling sorry for a plant is like feeling sorry for a rock. They don’t have any feelings, so you’re wasting your time. What you’re really doing is feeling sorry for yourself because you wanted a nice plant but are disappointed.

It’s been trying to flower on and off for months

It hasn’t been trying to do anything. Plants just follow their genetic programming, they have no free will.

After the thaw it looked very pleased

No, it did not. You’re imagining this.

it’s starting to look despondent now

You’re imagining this too.

will this unusual weather have any effect on food production?

This weather is not unusual. You’re imagining things.

I guess a lot of UK crops would normally be sown around this sort of time.

If you spent 5 minutes researching this, you wouldn’t have to guess and imagine things.

How reliant is our food supply on UK grown produce?

If the UK suffered complete crop failure, it’s wealthy enough to import enough food to not starve. If there was a global crop failure, food prices would skyrocket and it wouldn’t matter where you lived.

I remember recently reading (a meme probably) that the gulf stream is now properly kaput, and not even really a stream as such any more. Is there any truth in this,

No. This is crackpot conspiracy nonsense made up by people who think plants are sentient and use guesswork to try and figure out how the world works instead of looking up reference books.

Being from Sunny Devon aka The English Riviera, I’m perhaps being a little bit hysterical.

Is that the gist?

No disruption to agricultural cycles?

And the gulf stream thing.. any views on that?

Not a symptom of climate change?

not sure if paranoid or surrounded by trump supporters

EDIT: ahhh thanks hols2, more good data. You’ve cleared that right up for me! 🙂

This weather is not unusual. You’re imagining things.

he’s not imagining it. You’re projecting your own emotions onto the OP. Yunki isn’t sentient. He has no more ability to imagine the concept of weather than a box of tissues is able to determine the nuances of a Samual Beckett play or figure out whether it prefers Daddy or Chips. You’re just imagining that he’s imagining it. I think.

This weather is not unusual.

It happens every day. No matter what you say.

You’ll find it happens all the time.

You’re just imagining that he’s imagining it. I think.

Absolute proof this is all a simulation.

It happens every day. No matter what you say.

You’ll find it happens all the time.

but baby, it’s cold outside

My garden looks a bit dull at the moment.

My main worries are the wildlife in the garden. I’ve lost a colony of bees, not seen my hedgehog yet this year, and fear my newts may have died. Saw a great crested newt 2 years ago so hoping its had a chance to reproduce.

I blame your garden’s ability to heal on Unilever and Brexit.

A shortage of marmite compost – that’s what it boils down to.

You need to do some research, Hols2

You won’t have to look very far to find:

Plants are genetically programmed to respond to seasonal changes, when the weather is non-seasonal the programming fails them. One hard winter destroyed most of the olive trees in France and that was the end of large scale olive production as most of the trees were never replanted. Just one hot Summer can lead to a forest fire that destroys a habitat that never recovers as it is no longer connected to similar habitats as it was when the habitat first formed post glaciation.

This weather is unusual and related to unusually warm air over the Arctic. Which is so unusual that it’s the first time its been recorded and apart from climatic change there isn’t an explantion that fits.

In the case of a world food shortage it does matter where you live, preferably somewhere with a sufficiently dissuasive military capacity, lots of food reserves and diversified agriculture in many climatic zones.

So Yunki has made accurate observations and is right to be concerned.

They don’t have any feelings, so you’re wasting your time.

When the triffids come, first against the wall etc.

So Yunki has made accurate observations and is right to be concerned.

I don’t know much at all about the subject so I thought I would consult the informative and knowledgable folk of the forum.

Thankfully hols2 was able to provide insightful and accurate scientific information.

The Gulf Stream certainly hasn’t gone kaput – satellite and buoy data can show the warm waters moving still, and the specific details of which change on a number of timescales.  You can see examples of up to date data here: http://www.opc.ncep.noaa.gov/sst/GulfStream_compare.shtml

However there is work going on into how the Gulf Stream might change in the future, with longer term climate change (not year by year weather).  The palaeo record provides evidence that over longer time periods, it can shift north and south by quite a bit and likely weaken in the amount of heat that can be transported.

This is a quite nice summary of some of the debate http://blogs.ei.columbia.edu/2017/06/06/could-climate-change-shut-down-the-gulf-stream/

Important is this line though:

“The bottom line is that the thermohaline circulation is a very complex system and scientists do not yet understand all the variables involved in how it functions. There is an ongoing debate about why the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation has weakened and how much is due to the effects of human activity on the climate”

I remember recently reading (a meme probably) that the gulf stream is now properly kaput

If it had, it would be as cold as Alaska here.  However we had quite a mild winter overall so doesn’t look like it, based on that.

Anyway… last set of cold winters did wonders for our garden.  Far fewer pests.  I think it killed off a lot of slugs.

Garden looks a  bit drab, I’m more concerned that my house appears to have sprung lots of lots of hair line cracks in walls and ceilings that weren’t there last year.

It snowed in April a few years ago, the world didn’t end.

I was snowed into Malham in April in the 70s. No-one thought it strange.

June the 2nd 1976, yes 1976….Snow stopped a cricket match in Buxton…..

You’re in the UK. If you don’t like the weather, wait 20 minutes.

Weather isn’t unusual…all seems normal. With any luck this will make way for fewer midges and a warmer/drier summer…

June the 2nd 1976, yes 1976….Snow stopped a cricket match in Buxton…..

I think it might have been ’75. Our school (Grantown-on-Spey) sports had to be postponed because of snow on the playing fields.

I can remember a winter when it started snowing on Boxing Day, and the snow finally melted in March.

The world didn’t end 55 years ago either.

“This weather is unusual and related to unusually warm air over the Arctic. Which is so unusual that it’s the first time its been recorded and apart from climatic change there isn’t an explantion that fits.”

Apparently there was a similar spike in arctic temps in 1976.

Arctic Alarmists Hit New Records Of Hysteria

Anyone who lives near Lee Quarry will tell you that snow in June isn’t unusual

Exmouth is not the English Riviera 🙃

@irc I think we can safely file the contents of that link with most of JHJ’s posts…

It means I’ve had to spend more money on a better work jacket. Keela stuff is pretty good as it turns out.

irc

…Apparently there was a similar spike in arctic temps in 1976…

If St Brendan could voyage north of the current line of ice around 500AD, there’s still a way to go.

Tim Severin’s book on the Brendan Voyage is fascinating for those who like boats etc.

Less bugs this summer.

June the 2nd 1976, yes 1976….Snow stopped a cricket match in Buxton…..

I got snowed on in Devon in July 2002. It conveniently arrived as I was at the roadside fixing a puncture.

I was on my way to Princetown, so snow wasn’t the weirdest thing that happened that day.