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london lorry ban
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thomthumbFree Member
Apologies if there is already a thread – can’t find one.
Sadiq Khan is proposing a rating of lorrys based on visibility from cab.
The Road Haulage Association accused the mayor of “demonising lorries”.
If they can’t take responsibility for the drivers then we need to legislate against them.
The stats are clear
The mayor’s office said that over the past two years HGVs were involved in 23% of pedestrian fatalities and 58% of cyclist deaths in London, despite accounting for just 4% of the miles driven in the city.
whitestoneFree MemberI suspect it’s a bit of sabre rattling and what will end up happening will be somewhere in the middle.
I’m surprised given the knowledge that there is limited driver visibility of the areas close to the vehicle that current designs are still being produced or even allowed on the road. Look at refuse collection trucks – the cab is much lower and has glass to a low level so the driver has better visibility of those around the truck. If it can be done for those then it can be done for other trucks.
OnzadogFree MemberBloody good on him I say. Nice to see a politician making tough decisions. Finally someone looking to address the cause, not the symptoms.
Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition
Latest Singletrack VideosFresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...ninfanFree MemberThere are different specs of construction vehicles – a phase in of newer vehicles with better visibility would take years, but I suspect that a ban of N3G vehicles (off road spec without underrun protection) is the most likely outcome and could be achieved quickly
thisisnotaspoonFree MemberI’m all for it, even starting a debate about it will have an effect if buyers are looking at new trucks then whether or not it meets any potential future regulations is surely a factor in their decisions.
As ninfan said, big off road tipper trucks are the worst offenders, and could probably be redesigned if there was some impetus to do do (underrun protection that retracted off-road, lower/longer/glass cabs.
philjuniorFree MemberIt’s not demonising when it’s based on death rates and common sense. If a driver can’t see what’s around them in an area full of vulnerable road users, it’s simply inadequate and needs to change.
amediasFree MemberThe Road Haulage Association accused the mayor of “demonising lorries”.
Did the Road Haulage Association offer any other constructive solutions to the problem? or did they just whinge and go on the defensive…
I’m all for this discussion starting, even if outright bans aren’t possible* immediately then at least it will get the industry and public thinking about the situation, and legislation for new vehicles shouldn’t be too difficult which would at least start a phased change.
*It’s been done elsewhere…
bikebouyFree MemberWhere’s the like button ?
Sadiq gets my support.
I’d also like to see a ban on vehicles 2/3 days a week in the city through to the west end..
dovebikerFull MemberWith cyclists making up to 50% of commuter traffic in London and when a minority of traffic makes a significant threat to that majority, then regulation and exclusion are sensible precautions. If only the HSE would only bring the weight of Health and Safety legislation onto the owners and operators of such vehicles they’d soon change their tune – deaths in the construction industry reduced significantly under corporate manslaughter legislation. Why shouldn’t the same be true for ‘professional’ drivers who squish cyclists? Even if they were banned at peak travel times would be sensible – the problem is that many are paid by ‘run’ which incentivises the wrong type of behaviour.
milky1980Free MemberThe RHA are a pain in the arse, they just moan. It’s always the cost to their members they cite as a reason for not doing anything.
Khan’s talking about a phased introduction, same as the Low Emission Zone was. Large operators (supermarkets, Stobart etc) keep their fleet fresh with trucks usually around 5 years old so they’ll be getting compliant vehicles as a matter of course. The problem will be the private operators who tend to buy their trucks second-hand, these tend to be 5-10 years old and older designs. Then you have the bottom end operators who have vehicles that are 10+ years old. It’s the trucks being operated by these that are the problem.
That said the sooner we do something about truck design the sooner the new trucks start to filter through the system so for that it gets my vote.
dovebikerFull MemberThere would be uproar if the train or bus operators squished passengers, but an acceptance that squished cyclists are simply ‘collateral damage’ in commercial property development and the needs for investors to maximise returns.
NorthwindFull MemberSounds like sense tbh. The RHO can moan all they want, safer vehicles and processes already exist, the only reason this will disrupt hauliers is that they haven’t bothered to use them, it’s a problem 100% of their making.
What always strikes me as weird, watching them onsite they have banksmen and observers and speed restrictions and WAIT HERE TIL SIGNALLED and people walking around in hardhats, on a controlled site where everyone knows what the’re doing, and if they ran someone over, someone’d swing for it.
Then they drive onto a public road into a less controlled environment full of people less aware of how dangerous they are, and all the safeguards go away, and when they run someone over it’s “Yeah well you can’t see out of these trucks so it’s OK”
MoreCashThanDashFull MemberI agree that visibility from lorries needs addressing and this may help improve design.
That said, cyclists need to understand the risks presented by lorries as well and be cautious around them. Recent case up here saw a driver get a suspended sentence but it was shown in court both parties had ignored the advice of the Highway Code which may have prevented the incident.
T1000Free MemberThe driving penalties should be shared with the owners and directors
In a similar way that penalties flow in legislation enabled under the HSAW Act
It would help professionalise the industry. Lots of drivers are under a lot of pressure and sharing the penalties would encourage better training and management
Killing another road user should have the same corporate penalties (in addition to traditional rat penalties) as killing someone at a place of work, if someone is paid to drive
BuzzlightyearFree MemberThe police did a changing places event at my work, they had with them a large Tipper truck which we could sit in.
I am amazed that they are allowed on the road, the design is so dated with such poor visibility in just about every direction. It worked as i stay well away from them now, however it angers me more when one comes flying past with a close pass knowing that they probably would see if they did run me down.
Im all for it.
nickjbFree MemberAbout time. That picture of lorry blind spots that did the rounds a while back and the very recent safety video we dedated both used to apperntly show cyclists how to stay safe but really just highlight how inappropriate these vehicles are. Some great points above especially about prosecution of owners and the different attitudes to h&s on and off site.
brFree MemberIt’s got to be said though, that while they can’t see you (cyclist) you can certainly see them.
This was always my thought-process when I commuted into/around London (on a m/c), and tbh buses are no different except they usually have ‘slab’ sides so you’re more likely to bounce off them than go under – which I did more than once…
MurrayFull MemberIt’s a good idea, it’s being phased in and it’s not demonising trucks, its addressing a safety issue. Extending HSE to the road for professional drivers makes sense.
aracerFree MemberDid the Road Haulage Association offer any other constructive solutions to the problem? or did they just whinge and go on the defensive…
Yeah, they suggested the victims should change their behaviour
MoreCashThanDashFull MemberA lot of what the RHA says there is technically correct, but does look like they are trying to duck any responsibility.
philxx1975Free MemberYou can fit what the lorries carry In vans just as easily
Pretty sure a bus is as big as an 18 wheeler
In fact sod it just pedestrianised the whole area ,level the playing field , everyone should walk.
wilburtFree MemberTheyve pnly got away with so far because the haulage firms are major sponsors of the tory party.
projectFree MemberI cycle a lot in Liverpool, a place full of idiot drivers, and only very infrequently is a truck or bus causing a problem with close passes , sharp braking or left turn overtake at last moment, its usually larger cars of german parentage that cause the problem and their drivers.
whitestoneFree MemberTypical bully tactic of blaming the victim by the RHA there, imagine the fuss if they blamed rape on how women acted.
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