Having a loft conversion built at the mo, one week in and the dormer is up.

We are a terrace house which is stepped ( on a slope) on one side the plans showed that dormer was being built up to shared chimney stack (this was about 1.5 foot from party wall.

Had a look up stairs today and the builders have built the dormer upto the party wall and left a 50mm gap between edge of dormer and wall of neighbour  roof line so it’s up to our border but not over hanging the party wall ( this wouldn’t be possible as we are stepped) and still on our side.

our roofs are different heights due to step( slope of road) so his tiles are not affected

Will speak to the chief builder tomorrow- I’m worried as the plans submitted to council show something different and also the party wall agreement in place says we’re building upto the chimney ( which is 1.5foot away from PW)

we are still on our property so it’s technically okay ?? It’s permitted development council wouldn’t care as long as it’s signed off by building reg? Would my neighbour care – he can’t its on our side !

it gives us more space !

Any advice would be great

I would notify your party wall surveyor” They can then inspect it and advise if there are any issues. The whole point of the party wall is to protect your neighbour against damage done from your building work. If there is no damage, or you’re not jeopardising any waterproofing, flashing etc, then there shouldn’t be a problem.

Building Control won’t care if it’s built in a different place to the plans, as long as it doesn’t affect the structure and roof finishes.

However, I’d be worried about the flashing: 50mm is not a much space to be able to fit a proper flashing: Check how the builder has finished the flashing between the roof, the dormer and your party wall.

Thanks for replying

its still being built within our boundary, the party wall agreements already states flashings tiles etc need to be made water tight etc if touched.

The 50mm gap is the distance from edge of dormer to roof (stepped) no flashings have been fixed yet as dormer is still a wood construction.

So my local council don’t need to be notified as it’s permitted and still on our property ? With no real change apart from it’s about 25-30cm closer to my neighbour but still on our property

So my local council don’t need to be notified as it’s permitted and still on our property ?

Yep. Building Control will see it anyway during their site visits. I assume you haven’t submitted any kind of planning application/drawings to the Planning Dept. as it’s PD?

Well it’s on the council website for all and sundry to see ! We didnt to have to pay any fees to the council

But is that due to the Building Control application or is it on as a Planning application? They are two very separate things. Many councils are now listing BC applications on their websites.

copy of letter all personal details council removed

CERTIFICATE GRANTED

Dear Sir/Madam,

TOWN AND COUNTRY PLANNING ACT 1990

Please reply to: Email:

SECTION 192 (as amended by Section 10 of the Planning & Compensation Act 1991)
Town and Country Planning (Development Management Procedure) (England) Order 2015: article 39

1st Schedule PROPOSAL: Construction of a rear dormer with rooflights to the front and an extension to the soil pipe at rear.

2nd Schedule LOCATION:, hereby certify that on, 22nd November 2016 the use/operations/matter described in the First Schedule hereto in respect of the land specified in the Second Schedule hereto and coloured red on the plan attached to this certificate, WOULD BE LAWFUL if instituted or begun at the time of the application, within the meaning of Section 192 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended), for the following reason(s):

1. The development would constitute permitted development by virtue of Article 3, Schedule 2, Part 1 B, C and G of The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (England) Order 2015 (as amended).

Dated: 25 January 2017

Authorised on behalf of:

If you have any questions about this decision, please contact the planning officer

List of plans and documents referred to in this Notice:

Additional Information

1. This is a determination based on the plans submitted as to whether or not planning permission is required. It is based on the use of the property being that of a single dwelling house. This is not a grant of planning permission. If the measurements indicated on the submitted plans are exceeded during construction, or the use of the property differs from that stated on the application form and shown on plans, this certificate would no longer be valid.
2. The applicant’s attention is drawn to the following condition- the materials used in any exterior work must be of a similar appearance to those used in the construction of the exterior of the existing dwellinghouse.

3 The applicant is informed that Class A additions have not been considered under this submission.

Notes:

THIS DECISION IN NO WAY AFFECTS ANY LIABILITY YOU MAY HAVE TO OBTAIN APPROVAL OF YOUR PROPOSAL UNDER THE BUILDING REGULATIONS BEFORE ANY WORK ON SITE IS COMMENCED.

1. This certificate is issued solely for the purpose of Section 192 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 (as amended).
2. It certifies that the use/operations/matter specified in the First Schedule if to take place on the land described in the Second Schedule would be lawful on the specified date, and thus would not be liable to enforcement action under Section 172 of the 1990 Act on that date.
3. This certificate applies only to the extent of the use/operations/matter described in the First Schedule and to the land specified in the Second Schedule and identified on the attached

plan. Any use/operations/matter which is materially different from that described or which relates to other land may render the owner or occupier liable to enforcement action.

1. The effect of the certificate is also qualified by the proviso in Section 192(4) of the 1990 Act, as amended, which states that the lawfulness of a described use or operation is only conclusively presumed where there has been no material change, before the use is instituted or the operations begun, in any of the matters relevant to determining such lawfulness.
2. In the case of new building works, this decision is issued on the understanding that no part of the building works, including gutters and footings, encroaches beyond the curtilage of the application premises.
3. This decision does not convey any approval or consent under the Building Regulations which may be required before starting the development hereby granted permission. Advice on whether an application under the Building Regulations is required is available from the Council’s Building Control Service on our website or by contacting Building Control by email at

Ah! So you went for the PD Cert. In that case, I would suggest a quick call to your planning officer to inform them of the change. They’ll probably ask for a drawing.

There may not be a charge but if there is you should have a chat with your builder about who pays as it’s them who’ve built it in the wrong place.

Planners usually accept a 1mm variation between drawings and built i.e. 1mm = 100mm at 1:100 scale, but you are outside that, so it’s worth a call to cover yourselves. They may not care, but at least you’ll know for sure.

Okay – thank you !!!

…and if we didn’t notify the council what’s the worst that could happen ?

the worst  you could be made to take it down and redo it to the plans.  I would be worried about what other mistakes the builder will make.

Your certificate says

If the measurements indicated on the submitted plans are exceeded during construction

So I’d tell the Council. They will probably only be concerned if the increase in volume of the extension takes it outside PD.

I’m assuming the neighbour’s roof is lower than yours, so your dormer wall almost lines up with the party wall and the flashing covers the step? But in that case where’s the boundary – isn’t it down the middle of the party wall?

If the neighbour’s roof is higher, you’ll have a 50mm slot between the party wall and the dormer, and it will impossible to flash that properly, or even if it was, you couldn’t maintain it. So as well as your roof leaking, there would be potential for damp to into the party wall, which the neighbour would object to?

They will probably only be concerned if the increase in volume of the extension takes it outside PD

Presumably that could be address easily just by make the walls thicker (extra insulation for example).

I frequently build loft conversions. We’re always build the dormers leaving  a minimum of 300mm between party walls. As far as I was aware that was an actual requirement of PD and building control. If both houses were to build 50mm back from the wall then the loft build second wouldn’t be able to weather in the side cheek.

Personally I’d say that builders have built it wrong. Especially as different to plans.

You also get a maximum volume allowance under PD, 50cubic metres for semi detached and 40 for a terraced house. If your dormer is 300m bigger than you will most likely be over you maximum permitted allowance and could be asked to take it down.

Ive now spoken to the builder

our loft is about 32 cubic metres  sq, its added about 1.5cubic meters to the build.

reason he has said is because the the roof has an internal extra slope over the bay at the rear – the steel would have been exposed, nothing has been built on the party wall just up to it.

our roof is lower

I asked about contacting the council he said no need its the same size internally and its permitted development.

OT ..I’ve noticed that none of the conversions down my road have much snow on their roofs.

Smuggly ,mine has the most.

I appreciate that their conversions are warmer than my loft but I would have thought they would be super insulated.

Does having a conversion dramatically increase your heating bill?

Ignore