There’s one episode of Friends which has a higher age rating over here than all the others (The One With The East German Laundry Detergent) because Rachel uses that word to describe her ineptitude at doing the laundry. In the States, Spastic was never used as a term to refer to people with cerebral palsy. It’s not really been a common insult over here for years so it’s fairly likely she’d never have heard the term used in any non-American way.

She’s demonstrated exactly what we should all do when we learn that a word is problematic – she’s apologised and corrected the mistake.

We never thought about it’s origins or wider meaning then.

Nah, that’s not true. We pulled faces and moved our arms in a way that showed we knew exactly what it meant. See also calling people Joey. But then we grew up.

In the States, Spastic was never used as a term to refer to people with cerebral palsy.

Not sure that’s true. But it is true that it has become normalised and distanced from its origin over there. Much like… [ better pick one carefully ] …nitty-gritty over here.

Not sure that’s true. But it is true that it has become normalised and distanced from its origin over there.

The explanation I heard was that the terms on both sides of the Atlantic have their origins in spasmodic, but over here it was applied to people with cerebral palsy while in the States it was to clumsy people. But, maybe not.

it has become normalised and distanced from its origin over there. Much like… [ better pick one carefully ] …nitty-gritty over here

Bulldozer is a term that I try to avoid, having found out its origin. Nitty gritty I always remember just after using it, but use it so infrequently that it’s hard to rewire those synapses. I keep trying though.

Bulldozer is a term that I try to avoid, having found out its origin.

I have no idea what it means other than the tracked earthmover. Would like to know the origin.

Is nitty-gritty the one where there is no actual evidence of it being associated with the slave trade & for which there are several different reasons given as to why it might be racist?

Around 1870s: In the USA, a “bulldose” was a large dose (namely, one large enough to be literally or figuratively effective against a bull) of any sort of medicine or punishment.
By the late 1870s, “to bulldoze” and “bulldozing” were being used throughout the United States to describe intimidation “by violent and unlawful means”, which sometimes meant a severe whipping or coercion, or other intimidation, such as at gunpoint. It had a particular meaning in the Southern United States as a whipping or other punishment for African Americans to suppress black voter turnout in the 1876 United States presidential election.
– https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer#History_of_the_word

From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spaz

Definition of spaz
slang, often offensive
: one who is inept : KLUTZ

Examples of spaz in a Sentence:
I’m a real spaz on the ski slopes.
I haven’t played tennis in years, so don’t be surprised if I am a total spaz on the court.

It’s a bit of a reach to think that Lizzo has used it in any other meaning than this, I don’t think she’s writing her songs thinking “this’ll really put it to the Cerebal Palsy crowd”

What did she learn exactly?

Does it need explaining to you in words of no more that one syllable?

Awfully decent of her to change the lyrics without much fuss. Like her even more now.

What did she learn exactly?

It’s less about her I think – she has a whole team of people/companies/lawyers managing her music and it’s distribution globally.

I think it’s more of a question of why this wasn’t flagged prior to release by “her people”. Or maybe it was flagged, but ignored on the basis that (if you just look it up in Merriam-Webster, as above) it just presents as a fairly generic slang term for a clumsy person.

Where as (in this case), I obviously see how the term “Spaz” is offensive, and would never use it myself, I’m not 100% convinced that we need to examine the aetiology of every single slang term that we use to determine whether it might hypothetically cause offence (again: not talking about spaz – that’s just offensive). “Bulldozer” above is a great example. If the above is true, I understand that it has a pretty awful origin – but it simply doesn’t mean that any more: A bulldozer is something else, and people are using it (correctly) in that context.

I’m absolutely not part of the “it’s PC gawn maaaaad – you can’t say anything any more” brigade – but I think that people have to accept that language evolves in both directions. Ie: I think everyone accepts that there are things that were acceptable to say 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago, that you can’t/shouldn’t say any more. But I think we also need to accept the other side of that coin: that certain words/sayings have become so detached for their original root, that they just don’t mean that any more.

I must admit that it’s a word that I sometimes use to describe my legs on a bad day. Muscle spasticity is not a fun condition, and given the medication dose I take for it, mine isn’t that bad.

blimey, thought this was done & dusted when she apologised and changed the release.

everyone accepts that there are things that were acceptable to say 10, 20, 30, 50 years ago, that you can’t/shouldn’t say any more

Tell that to the rappers 😛

Much like… [ better pick one carefully ] …nitty-gritty over here.

This being problematic was a new one on me so I googled it.

nitty-gritty
/nɪtɪˈɡrɪti/
Origin
1960s: of unknown origin.

There’s a few unsubstantiated posts saying “it might have been…” but that’s somewhat reaching.

Bulldozer is a term that I try to avoid, having found out its origin.

This I didn’t know either and, again with the power of the mighty Google, that’s actually pretty shocking. But realistically would anyone alive today make that association over a big yellow lump of metal?

Bulldozer is a term that I try to avoid, having found out its origin.

It’s not a “term”, it’s a word and if you said Ooh, look at the size of that bulldozer! No-one, anywhere, ever would go “You can’t say that you racist!” (except maybe in Alabamy)

No fuss, some words are less offensive in different places. US, Spaz and Retard don’t seem to be offensive at all.

However words like ‘salad’ aren’t offensive in the US, but are hugely offensive in Scotland!

My 19yr old daughter and her friends use the word in normal conversation.

It’s not the same as it was in the 80s – and they don’t pull their arms into their t-shirt sleeves and do stupid impressions.

I blame the parents.

I heard both my daughters use it in the early teens, they’ve not used it in front of me since.

Pitchforks down, everyone. Someone explained the issue to her and she’s changed the lyric…
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/jun/14/lizzo-removes-harmful-ableist-slur-from-new-song-grrrls-after-criticism

It’s not the same as it was in the 80s – and they don’t pull their arms into their t-shirt sleeves and do stupid impressions

I’m sure Blue Peter had the best of intentions when they put Joey Deacon on telly but it did fuel a whole new world of playground taunts

I’m sure Blue Peter had the best of intentions when they put Joey Deacon on telly but it did fuel a whole new world of playground taunts

Not for the most honourable of reasons, but I think that was the last time the nation really spoke as one. We’ve had Royal weddings, jubilees, Euro’s, Olympics, which have created some togetherness but on that one morning the nation spoke with one voice. And that voice said….’did you see Blue Peter last night!!!!’

Does it need explaining to you in words of no more that one syllable?

Yes please.

Ableist slur – first time I’ve heard that one.

Kids are quite creative. Especially when it comes to insults.

One of my mates was quite imaginative on this front and combined it with another equally offensive word to produce a hydrid insult to cover all bases and called me a spaztard

She also used to call me a flod, which is a combination of flid and spod

Lizzo needs to up her game

However words like ‘salad’ aren’t offensive in the US, but are hugely offensive in Scotland!

A Burger nae shite. Classic scottish order in the bar.

Pitchforks down, everyone. Someone explained the issue to her and…

What, again ??

A Burger nae shite

justifies the thread

Apparently Beyonce has recently released an album with a song including the word “spaz” in it twice.

How weird. Even if she lives in a bubble, she’s been rather let down by the people who work for her, unless they fundamentally disagree with the outcome of the Lizzo furore.

That’s the least of your worries with the new Beyonce album

https://www.wired.com/story/beyonce-conspiracy-theories-revelation/

A more detailed look at the issue of  the term having different meanings to different communities –

https://slate.com/culture/2022/08/beyonce-renaissance-lizzo-spaz-ableist-slur-lyrics-history.html?via=rss_flipboard

As a 60s kid i have an extensive list of words i have not used for 50 years.

In the States, Spastic was never used as a term to refer to people with cerebral palsy.

I know quite a few Americans and Canadians. They use “spaz” a lot. They all understand what “spastic” means.

Worst thing is, Lizzo’s new album is really bland. Back to Cupcakke for me.

and Beyonce

Hang on! Apart from anything else does it really cost £70 to get Beyoncé’s new album?!

Is this another excuse for people to be outraged?
Person did a thing, was pointed out to be offensive, person said sorry and changed word.
If it’s the same lizzo that I heard this morning it was bland sameyness to loads of other. Though the concept of the track was given and quite interesting.

There are lots of offensive terms, this thread reminded me of the term epo (referring to having tantrum).
Again not actually heard it used that way for years. But the same applies with times moving.

And as for beyonce I hope the pit girl thread people don’t see that cover. Not sure there are enough buscuits

Hang on! Apart from anything else does it really cost £70 to get Beyoncé’s new album?!

Assuming a vinyl release right? Check Ya Head reissue from the Beastie Boys is like 130-160 I think.

The word ‘Spastic’ is nothing new in songs. Billy Joel used it in 1983 in Good Night Saigon –

We came in spastic
Like tameless horses
We left in plastic
As numbered corpses

I think in this case he meant it a little differently though.

Check Ya Head reissue from the Beastie Boys is like 130-160 I think.

Aptly titled then!

Assuming a vinyl release right? Check Ya Head reissue from the Beastie Boys is like 130-160 I think.

Their Greatest Hits is available in a 5 part set. Parts A to D are free, but you’ve got to fight for your right to Part E