Viewing 40 posts - 1,881 through 1,920 (of 4,159 total)
  • Liz! Truss!
  • kelvin
    Full Member

    Our basic income/outgoings is balance of trade and this has been negative EVERY month for decades.

    Given we **need** to import food we need to export to pay for it.

    Any “growth” really needs to be well defined and targeted whichever party is talking about it

    Truth.

    But regardless of everything in your truth bomb. Truss doesn’t have a plan for growth. Starmer is hoping to pair it with a green rush (what’s the downside there, if we don’t get growth we’ve still updated our energy production for the 21st Century at last 🤷🏻 and have a good chunk if it owned by the UK) and education and training. But whatever… the unions, green campaigners, Labour, all the people who appear on the BBC and don’t agree with Truss’ Tufton Street pals… these are not part of any “any-growth coalition”… it’s a fabrication that shouldn’t be allowed to stick.

    StuF
    Full Member

    Stolen from a friend of mine:

    So Liz Truss selected ‘Moving on up’ as her entrance music (against the wishes of the songwriter).
    As another stunning example of not bothering about details, maybe she should have glanced at the lyrics first?
    I suppose they would appear to sum up the mood of the nation though:

    You’ve done me wrong, your time is up
    You took a sip from the devil’s cup
    You broke my heart, there’s no way back
    Move right out of here, baby, go on pack your bags

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    After consulting eminent Climate Scientists, that’s pretty much the opposite conclusion to what Naomi Klein came to in This Changes Everything.

    Economic growth is the absolute driver of climate change

    It’s true, but it also isn’t.

    Unchecked growth might have resulted in global warming. That doesn’t mean you can’t (in crude terms) create a company producing renewable energy, which is growth, and stalls/reverses climate change.

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    The speech seems pretty successful in setting the agenda.

    Barely a mention of ‘growth’ on this thread up to today.

    I guess they know that it’s an area where their opponents may be divided.

    The Folly of Growth

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I guess they know that it’s an area where their opponents may be divided.

    I see nothing to disagree with Lucas with in that letter. I’ll read the linked report tomorrow.

    Unchecked growth might have resulted in global warming. That doesn’t mean you can’t (in crude terms) create a company producing renewable energy, which is growth, and stalls/reverses climate change.

    This. And if we can move all our energy production to renewables, there are then many more ways to steadily grow an economy that isn’t just about making and accumulating “stuff”, especially when it comes to services, entertainment, leisure, science, arts, tech… the things we are good at and should be treasuring and nurturing, not neutering with a nonsensical and counterproductive drive towards deregulation, isolation and a withdrawing state to favour the sovereign individuals driving UK policy at the moment.

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    I see nothing to disagree with Lucas with in that letter.

    Neither do I, but Lucas’s……………….

    Professor Tim Jackson asserts that there are no politicians today who dare to acknowledge that mindlessly chasing after ever-increasing economic growth is not compatible with sustainability.

    In fact, Green Party politicians have been saying exactly that for over thirty years

    Doesn’t exactly seem in lockstep with Starmer’s…………..

    “To do all that we need three things:

    Growth. Growth. And Growth.”

    kelvin
    Full Member

    We do need growth. Mindlessly chasing it in the forms we were chasing it before the 2008 crash absolutely wasn’t sustainable. Going back to that is exactly what Truss is looking to do, deregulating the banks etc (banker bonus gap being only the most publicly noticeable aspect of that) and not only removing restrictions on new fossil fuel extraction, but rewarding those companies looking to capitalise on that opportunity taking us in completely the wrong direction. For a long period the UK absolutely relied on fossil fuels for its growth, we can not afford for that to be our future… it won’t work economically beyond a few years, and it won’t work environmentally or socially at all.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    So the ‘anti-growth coalition’ is fighting the Tories? Sounds like another term for chemotherapy.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Also @binners

    Too late, fella!

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Truss’s economic plans have flipped how her opponents discuss the economy. From questions of ownership reform, social infrastructure provision and redistribution, they now discuss “sound money”, currency markets and debt reduction.

    The risk for progressives is that these traditionally Conservative priorities take precedence at just the moment the Conservative party spectacularly implodes.

    – Sahil Dutta

    tjagain
    Full Member

    The dark green position on growth is we dont need it. We have plenty of stuff and money. We just need to shate it equally around. Ie some folks have multiple cars. Some folk have none. Share equally and everyone has cheap access to one.

    Gross oversimplification of course but thats the basis of the dark green zero growth ideal which i adhere to.

    More stuff equals more pollution

    breatheeasy
    Free Member

    So whats Mad Lizzies next move…
    U-turn on the lot?
    U-turn on just the benefits stuff?
    Just go all in whith the initial plan and hope the threat of removing the whip works?

    Noe of the options seem brilliant for her.

    And whats the Tory MPs next move…
    Vote against and lose the whip?
    Abstain which potentially loses the vote anyway?
    Hold your nose and vote for it?

    Knowing you’ve probably got this one chance to get rid of her and potentially get someone vaguely sensible in thats not beholden to the ERG to win back voters in the next 2 years. If you’ve gotta wait a full year for a VONC then thats gonna be too late.

    Happy days.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Truss’s economic plans have flipped how her opponents discuss the economy.

    Nonsense. That flip happened long ago. She should get no credit for that. Opposition parties have been overly concentrated on being reassuring about these issues for one reason only: (to many) British people kept voting Tory because they talked the talk on this, despite their record to the contrary. Hopefully that is shifting before our eyes, and that misplaced trust is evaporating away from the Tories.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    And whats the Tory MPs next move…
    Vote against and lose the whip?

    Unless they represent a constituency with a very large Tory majority they stand to lose a lot more that whip if they back her plans.

    And she doesn’t need to do a U-turn on benefits at the moment. She can just confirm that they will rise in line with inflation, which is what she is under pressure to do.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Nonsense. That flip happened long ago.

    Well it’s obviously not an opinion which you share with Sahil Dutta.

    However less than a couple of weeks ago the Labour leader was talking about ownership reform, social infrastructure provision and redistribution.

    And yet the main topics of debate currently appear to be “sound money”, currency markets and debt reduction.

    I reckon Sahil Dutta makes a fair point when he suggests that there is a risk for progressives that these traditionally Conservative priorities take precedence just when the Tories are finding themselves up Shit Creek without a paddle.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Well it’s obviously not an opinion which you share with Sahil Dutta.

    For sure. I don’t. And considering how often some posters been complaining about how some opposition politicians have been using this language since at least 2019, I doubt anyone else here does either.

    However less than a couple of weeks ago the Labour leader was talking about ownership reform, social infrastructure provision and redistribution.

    Well, there you go. First chance after Truss has become PM, and look what Labour are talking about. They were focusing on all the stuff Dutta was talking about for two years before she became leader. That’s not because of her, but because they were trying to reset the public’s negative perception of them on four big issues (handling gov finances, supporting Britain, not going back on Brexit, mistrust of the previous leader) before they could move on to starting to present the real heart of a Labour manifesto. Yes, Labour have embraced the language of sound money… but it has bugger all do to with Truss floundering around, and everything to do with why people rejected them at previous elections.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I doubt anyone else here does either.

    Fairy nuff. I thought you were just giving your own personal opinion.

    oldmanmtb2
    Free Member

    Launching the Northumbrian branch of the AGC….

    Our motto (nicked from Yorkshire)
    “Spend nowt”

    molgrips
    Free Member

    More stuff equals more pollution

    I don’t think growth necessarily means all that much more physical stuff.

    fingerbang
    Free Member

    I’ve ordered one of those AGC t shirts. Proud to be one of the AGC scum presumably now I’m anti UK and anti patriot

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    I guest blame the people who keep blindy voting Conservative.

    They are the last people who have a right to complain.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    “vested interests dressed up as think tanks, talking heads”

    Worth repeating. Accuse your opponents of your own sins. Classic stuff. Projection. Her own big lie.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    I’ve ordered one of those AGC t shirts. Proud to be one of the AGC scum presumably now I’m anti UK and anti patriot

    Don’t fall into that political trap… It’s what they want… Don’t give in to blind nationalism /populism flag waving crap.

    mashr
    Full Member

    Thought this might be better than a T-shirt for some

    Anti-Growth Coalition Mug

    kelvin
    Full Member

    It’s what they want…

    Yeah, the trap even has “trap” written on it in crayon. Reducing inequality, greening our energy, saving public services, investing in education and training, improving public transport links, looking after the elderly properly, growing public ownership… all can help create growth… the Tories want to shrink the UK, in the name of a smaller state that abdicates responsibility for improving quality of life for all of us, and lets their sponsors get on with doing whatever they want, whatever the cost.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    If anyone wants to read an account of how gloomy the mood was at the Tory conference this CNN report is a good’un.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/05/uk/liz-truss-conservative-party-conference-speech-gbr-intl/index.html

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    I’ve been trying to stay away from the politics.. But I accidentally watched Truss on the beeb.

    Jesus she’s a **** melty, as the Scots would say.

    mattyfez
    Full Member

    What the chuff is she on about?

    It’s almost like the pm is literally taking the piss out of the UK, whilst also charging us for it.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    What the chuff is she on about?

    I’m still trying to work out if she’s a university robotics project been let loose for beta-testing.

    Her public speaking is truly abysmal – stresses on the wrong words, punctuation is just an afterthought and you can almost see the cogs whirring as she tries to reach the next pre-programmed answer.

    kenneththecurtain
    Free Member

    Her public speaking is truly awful. It really sounds like she is reading a list of completely unrelated words, with no consideration of sentence structure or their meaning.

    onehundredthidiot
    Full Member

    Truss’ growth is not stuff it’s money/the city. That’s the quick buck.
    In effect she’s already succeeded crash the pound city makes money. Any recovery will be touted as “biggest growth since…”

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Full Member

    Is it just me or do her arms look disconnected from her body at times during her speech? She moves like a marionette doll – I hope someone’s done an edited video with strings attached to her…

    As for the whole growth thing – I think she want’s to return to the 80’s boom years of her hero. Whilst conveniently ignoring the bust that followed and the sharp rise in inequality whilst the investment bankers etc. were riding a wave of champagne and cocaine.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    As for the whole growth thing – I think she want’s to return to the 80’s boom years of her hero.

    The only growth she’s interested in is that of her bank account and the wealth of her backers. Everything else is irrelevant.

    binners
    Full Member

    Is it just me or do her arms look disconnected from her body at times during her speech? She moves like a marionette doll – I hope someone’s done an edited video with strings attached to her…

    As also noted by John Crace yesterday

    She frequently looked towards the wings as if begging for help and her hands chopped the air as if she was a 1960s TV puppet.

    binners
    Full Member

    As for the whole growth thing – I think she want’s to return to the 80’s boom years of her hero

    She’s not interested in anything beyond the immediate. This is just a smash and grab raid now on behalf of her and Kwasi’s dodgy backers

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    This is pretty good

    stevextc
    Free Member

    Kelvin

    But regardless of everything in your truth bomb. Truss doesn’t have a plan for growth.

    I don’t think other than her personal financial situation she has ANY plan whatsoever.
    I mean, she didn’t even have a plan to address the Tory conference (unless she had some double edged I’ll just lie at interviews then reverse 180 tomorrow/later)

    Pretty much EVERYTHING she has said and done since becoming PM has been something that “someone” would pay for handsomely be that fracking or crashing the UK economy with a few “perks” thrown in such as bankers bonus’s and 45% rate.

    Everything else seems just to be busy work for her… or just an opportunity to chuck a bit more petrol on the fire down to the timing of reversals on the “perks”.

    Crazylegs

    The only growth she’s interested in is that of her bank account and the wealth of her backers. Everything else is irrelevant.

    I’m struggling to find anything else she’s said or done say’s otherwise.

    MattyFez

    What the chuff is she on about?

    It’s almost like the pm is literally taking the piss out of the UK, whilst also charging us for it.

    The more she demonstrates complete lack of understanding the more the market is volatile and hedge funds make a killing.

    daviek
    Full Member

    That was very good 😀

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Yeah, very good. Needs more EMF though!

    [ for younger members, EMF are a band, not a ‘think tank’ or NGO ]

Viewing 40 posts - 1,881 through 1,920 (of 4,159 total)

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