This appears a safe strategy as Labour don’t seem to have any thing on offer for the country,other than,we are not torries.I have said it before,but it’s as if Labour don’t really want the gig until things hit ground zero and are then begged to try and fix things

I’m not going to derail the thread & talk about Labour, but have a look at what’s coming out from their conference.

Truss is in their pockets

From austerity, to brexit to this budget farce the Tories & rw press have been dancing to their tune for years

Better late than never, lads. https://t.co/BRseuoQBe5

— James Oh Brien (@mrjamesob) September 27, 2022

Calling for a new election is pointless. Politics is a out what is possible and plausible. Another election is neither and calling for one also looks stupid and childish politically

Of course it isn’t. The Chancellor himself is calling it a new era and a new government. It is both “possible and plausible” for the new prime minister to call for an early general election to give herself a personal mandate for her policies.

In fact the previous 2 prime ministers did precisely that when they came to office midterm. There is nothing “stupid and childish” pointing out that Truss should do the same.

The fact that she won’t will simply rob the government further of its legitimacy to govern, and further undermine them, in the eyes of the public, and increase the chances that they will be voted out when the general election eventually comes.

Holding out and waiting until the very last moment to call an election, when there are perfectly legitimate reasons for calling an early, is not a good look for any government. And it should be exploited by opposition parties.

What is really daft however is claiming that there is no point in proposing something which a Tory government won’t support.

Because if that was the case there would be no point to the opposition ever suggesting anything which is unlikely to receive the support of the Tory government.

The current Labour Conference with its counter-proposals would be pointless and the Labour benches in the House of Commons would be reduced to listening to the Tories and saying nothing in response.

> delete <

[ I’m not joining in with the (deliberate?) killing of another thread ]

Turkeys dont vote for Christmas. No chance of calling an election.

Its not plausible in any way. Truss does not give two hoots. All it would do is distract from the real issues

Not a chance of an early election.

They’ve signalled their intent in no uncertain terms

We’ve 2 years of scorched earth disaster capitalism to look forward to

While I understand that it’s a “thing that you have to do” Truss congratulating Italy’s new PM, but a couple of weeks ago couldn’t be sure that Macron was a friend of the UK?

Adds to the feeling that there isn’t an adult in the room all the time.

Not a chance of an early election.

Maybe not, but it doesn’t stop the opposition parties (not just labour) pushing the case and making it very clear to the voters that the tories have executed a coup d’etat and imposed a govt with no mandate on policies that were never presented to the them. That point isn’t really being made at the moment and the end result of continually changing leaders and policies mid-term is the erosion of faith (what little is left) in the democratic system.

You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?

Or ‘executed a coup d’etat’ if that’s your preferred turn of phrase

They’ve got plenty to presently go at without wasting time calling for an election that they definitely won’t get

All it would do is distract from the real issues

Of course it wouldn’t, it would do the opposite – it would focus on the main current issue, what Kwarteng has called a new direction.

I have no idea what Starmer keynote speech will contain but if whilst he has the full attention of the media and TV cameras he was to publicly challenge Truss to put her economic policies to the British people and call a general election, as her two direct predecessor did, how on earth would that be called “stupid and childish”.

Apart from anything else it would force Truss to explain why she won’t seek a mandate and call an election when her very own Chancellor calls it a new era, a new direction, and a new government.

The Tories gave Gordon Brown untold stick for not calling an early general election and accused him of bottling it. Why should Labour let Truss get away with losing her bottle?

The only people I would expect to call challenging Truss “childish and stupid” are Tories. Are you a Tory now TJ?

Anyway…. We appear to be, somewhat predictably, back here yet again..

You can’t help yourselves, can you?

Is that what you now always do when you feel that you are losing an argument binners?

This thread is about Liz Truss. The suggestion has been made that opposition parties should perhaps challenge the legitimacy of her economic policies and whether she should, like her predecessors, seek a mandate.

Are you suggesting that this thread should only deal with issues concerning Liz Truss that you approve of?

You can’t help yourselves, can you?

Indeed.

Too much ironing.

You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?

I do. If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.

You do remember that the last Labour government changed leaders mid-term, right?

Yes, and Brown bottled calling an election, which probably cost Labour another term.

‘Dullards’ oh the ironing.

Although I have to say – I am admiring the post-modernist energy of arguing about what somebody hasn’t said in a conference speech.

Or is that Brechtian – I finished Uni too many years ago!

Sounds like fun, what thread is that on hels?

From austerity, to brexit to this budget farce the Tories & rw press have been dancing to their tune for years

And not just the press… BBC news and current affairs programmes have been stuffed with people from these “Think Tanks” providing “balance” for years now.

I do. If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.

and ol’ Gordon would have been eternally grateful if it had been the case

I’ve figured it out!

Everyone thought Dizzy Liz was some sort of crap Neo-Thatcherite trying to emulate the Iron Lady, crush the plebs and elevate the city boys, but Nope her political model, while still drawn from the 80s, is based on a very different set of goals:

It’s “Neo-Brewsterism” and she’s trying to put everyone off of politics all together!

None of the Above!

If it was down to me the first electoral reform that should be implemented would be a mandatory general election within 6 months following a change in Prime Minister.

I suppose if the last decade or so has proven anything it’s that he British people do love a good vote. It’s just the outcomes we struggle with.

But I’d go a Step further than your proposed reforms: just abolish the Commons and the Lords, give all executive power over to Ant & Dec.

We’d get have a fortnightly national phone in on every major topic facing the nation.
Don’t worry we can still have politicians but they’ll basically just be light entertainers, given 2 minutes to make a pitch for your phone vote.
They’d make their pitch in front of a Panel made up of Stacy Solomon, the current Monarch, a randomly selected cast member from TOWIE and the most placid Tabby cat available at short notice. Each panellist gets to ask one question of each “Idea haver” and has one veto per-show where they can press a buzzer to cut off someone they just find objectionable for whatever reason…

Ant & Or Dec then have to implement the nation’s choices, each failure to do so (from the preceding show) adds 60 seconds to the duration of their hand to hand battle with a Puma… Oh yeah I should have mentioned Ant & Dec have to fight a Puma at the end of every show.

I’m thinking of “Ant & Dec’s Constitutional Nightmare!” as a working title (probably sponsored by Tetley’s or Hovis)…

1.074

The BBC are still reporting that the pound is rallying… yet it hasn’t even “bounced” back to the lows of last Friday. Everyone… talk positive and it’ll all be okay…

Yep, you can turn a .0001% increase into a rally by picking the right window to draw the chart. And with most things like this you get ups along with the downs so that’s an old old trick. Or “grew for 3 days” or similar. And most of all representing a reversion to the mean as growth.

Re demanding a general election, the point of demanding it isn’t to get it. It’s to make it absolutely clear that you want it, and to talk about the reasons why it should be happening, and to really nail down Truss’s lack of mandate. And maybe most of all to make them refuse, because that looks very different to not just doing it.

ATM apologists can say “neither party wants a general election right now” and by not calling for one, Starmer opens himself up to accusations that he’s scared to fight one. Of course this is all spurious nonsense but that’s the game sometimes.

Petition to get her out has launched and has already triggered a response from the govt. I know it won’t get anywhere but it’s interesting to see the public mood show itself in this way.

Yeah, I signed that earlier, futile I know.

Governments response to the petition is from a parallel universe:

This response was given on 20 September 2022

The UK is a Parliamentary democracy and the Conservative Party remains the majority party. The Prime Minister has pledged to ensure opportunity and prosperity for all people and future generations.

Could this be her poll tax moment?

There does seem to more outrage at this than bojos buffoonery

Could this be her poll tax moment?

There does seem to more outrage at this than bojos buffoonery

Dunno, Bozza didn’t get into office and then immediately accelerate a recession, seemingly on purpose. It is quite something when you make Boris Johnson look like a safe pair of hands…

At this rate she’ll be out before she’s had a chance to choose the new wallpaper…

She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?

My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.

Unless sufficient tories vote down the next finance bill or a vote of no confidence which pretty much forces a resignation then there is no way to get rid of her and there is no way the tories will let an early election happen as too many of them will lose their seats.

Of course she is in hiding. She has no answers to the awkward questions that will be asked

She’s a bit conspicuous by her absence right now isn’t she? What’s she up to?

Indeed you would have thought that photo-op Lizzy would want to be all over the place this week, now she’s back on home soil after a swally away.

1 acroos in this mormings Grauniad cryptic

Posh bloke is a Tory bastard? Not unknown (6)

How long does she have to last to get the PM pension?

She’s probably just in her office drafting new rules on that.

After a couple of weeks of Truss anyone finding themselves thinking I wish Johnson had stayed on as PM.

My understanding is that under tory party rules she is safe from a challenge for a year.

the peoples revolution may change that….. depends how loudly we all tut at the same time

After a couple of weeks of Truss anyone finding themselves thinking I wish Johnson had stayed on as PM.

No, not yet.

But I am remembering Cameron and May through rose tinted spectacles…

I think the Navy should name their next submarine HMS Truss

Launched with much fanfare, surfaced a few times, torpedoed the economy and now lurks undetectable…somewhere

Kentish man

Nope. Johnson had a personal popularity that might have won the Tories another election. Truss has not and has so trashed the Tories reputation its highly unlikely that they will win another election for a long time. Short term pain for long term gain.

But I am remembering Cameron and May through rose tinted spectacles…

Cameron was probably the most corrupt of them, changed the law around political lobbying in way that specifically allowed him to have his “sponsor” inside government with him, and then to lobby on their behalf even once he’d moved on from government (and parliament). Had the balls to say upfront that the “Lobbying is the next scandal”, before working to line his pockets through lobbying. There was a period where perhaps he seemed a reasonable leader for the country, compared to past Tory leaders… but then he got his chance to rule without the LibDems, and we saw the real Tory in full effect. May paved the way for Johnson with all her “Brexit means Brexit” red lines that pushed a Brexit that ruled out a Norway, Switzerland or other close trading relationship with the rest of the continent… working for the ERG & Farage types rather than the mass of people who voted for Brexit (and the rest of us). We’re paying the price for her decisions now, and for decades. The rose tinted spectacles are being shared by many of us though… despite their roles in digging this country such a deep hole [ the pairing of utterly corrupt governance and self imposed economic shackles that will be used to excuse/explain our slide into a low regulation low tax (for the rich) low quality of life (if not rich) fractured state ] Johnson and Truss have proven to be worse, because where they have been digging the hole even deeper it has become more obvious to more people that it’s getting darker for us.