http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/dorset/8103581.stm

“A couple have taken legal action after claiming motion sensors installed at their holiday flat in Dorset breached their rights as Orthodox Jews.

Gordon and Dena Coleman said they cannot leave or enter their Bournemouth flat on the Sabbath because the hallway sensors automatically switch on lights.

The couple’s religious code bans lights and other electrical equipment being switched on during Jewish holidays.”

If anyone needs me, I’ll be slamming my head in the door. I may then sue someone because doors offend my religious rights.

Surely the hallway lights aren’t run from their flat so they are not going to burn in hell for this?

they won’t burn in hell anyway as they don’t believe in it

Good stuff! Excuse my ignorance of religion, what do Jewish people believe happens if they are bad?

they have to spend an eternity with woody allen*

*i have no idea

Goods, facilities and services should be provided with regard to the religion or belief of people using them. The landlord refused to do so.

I’m glad this isn’t the usual ‘only criminals and terrorists get to have human rights’ bollocks that usually makes the headlines.

Your case would be a weak one, Flaperon.

* neither do they…..

ooooooooo!

Deep sigh
Is this really worth going to court over.
If your second home home offends thee, sell it and get another.

they won’t burn in hell anyway as they don’t believe in it

and it’s not there anyway…
Though actually hell sounds more interesting than heaven :o)
Eternal peace with no conflict or intrigue ? BOR-ING:-(

Amazing really that the Torah not only predicted electric lights, but laid down rules governing their use.

surely all they’re doing is radiating heat; the lights then switch themselves on ?

Actually all they are doing is disturbing the reflection the detector is sensing? But still I am sure the texts cover this…

Gordon and Dena Coleman need to get a **** grip.

Do they really think that God (or whatever their variant is) wants them to be such petty whining ****. 🙄

It must be a slow news day…. New motion sensor causes elderly couple to fear a fictional book….

Goods, facilities and services should be provided with regard to the religion or belief of people using them.

Why?

Can somebody clarify for me – reading that article they have no objection to the lights being left on (as they were before), simply to them having some part in switching them on and off? Makes me wonder how you could make an override switch that didn’t switch some electrical circuit or other – or is the idea simply that the lights are left switched on all sabbath?

I do hope they haven’t got a thermostat on their fridge (or a light in it) – I’m assuming here they have no objection to having a fridge left switched on?

How come no one has yet suggested that they should bugger off back to Israel if they don’t like it here ?

And didn’t we help to drive the Palestinians off their lands so that Jews could have their own homeland
anyway ?

Sometimes I don’t know why we bothered 😕

The Cal mac ferry to Lewis is leaving shortly…space for two. A couple of days up there and they’ll be installing disco lights in their flat.

porterclough – Member

Goods, facilities and services should be provided with regard to the religion or belief of people using them.

take out the words “using” and “them” and substitute ” who are not intelligent enough to realise their religion is a nonsense”

Damn. I’m impressed that a religion could be so forward thinking to mandate that electrical lights & devices can’t be used on holidays.
Amish stuff I can figure – they just stated that anything new is evil. But this is quite specific eh.

I’m sure some of these nutters would try and convice us that the world is flat if they thought they could get away with it.

My religion prevents me turning hallway and stairwell lights off during hours of darkness when I wish to move about. If I disobey and they are turned off, my god punishes me with stubbed toes, grazed knees and if I am really bad a tumble down the stairs.

porterclough – Member

Goods, facilities and services should be provided with regard to the religion or belief of people using them.

Why?

It’s the law.

Let’s hope this thread doesn’t evolve into the standard ‘religionists are WRONG!’ doggerel that periodically pops up on STW like an unflushable floater.

The law also protects people from unfair treatment on the grounds of any lack of religion. So if Spongebob’s landlady refused to fix the lights because she said he was ‘godless’, he could bring a claim if he so wished. It’s worth pointing out that’s all the Jewish couple have done. It hasn’t been heard yet.

pops up on STW like an unflushable floater

You can call me Mr. Hanky.

This includes making, transferring or adding fuel to a fire. This is one of the few Shabbat prohibitions mentioned explicitly in the Torah Exodus 35:3*. Many poskim ground their prohibition of operating electrical appliances in this melakha.

This prohibition also was (and in many circles, still is) commonly understood to disallow operating electrical switches. When actuating electromechanical switches that carry a live current, there is always the possibility that a small electric spark will be generated. This spark is classified as a kind of fire. However, as science became more advanced, and the properties of fire and electricity became better understood, this reasoning broke down: fire is a chemical reaction involving the release of energy; the flow of an electric current is a physical reaction. Therefore, some hold that the proper reason it is forbidden to complete electric circuits is because it involves construction or building

*3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.’

Going to great lengths to make life awkward for themselves and others. The true sign of faith.

Have they not ‘seen the light’?

I’m surprised nobody’s made an irrelevant reference to Darwin yet.

I’m sure some of these nutters would try and convice us that the world is flat if they thought they could get away with it.

That nearly[/b] does it but not quite.

The STW floater bobs on.

The law also protects people from unfair treatment on the grounds of any lack of religion. So if Spongebob’s landlady refused to fix the lights because she said he was ‘godless’, he could bring a claim if he so wished. It’s worth pointing out that’s all the Jewish couple have done. It hasn’t been heard yet.

Except that’s not the same is it. Having lights that work is a basic feature/safety issue.

Never mind the fact that lights that switch on automatically are good for the environment and will save them and others in the flats money. No, let’s ignore that because a magic man in the sky wrote a book 2000 years ago (or whatever their story is) forbidding it.

I don’t care if people choose to believe whatever they like (however silly), it’s just when they start trying to impose their views on other people that gets my goat.

Goods, facilities and services should be provided with regard to the religion or belief of people using them.

Which religion?

According to David Barrett and team, there are 19 major world religious groupings in the world which are subdivided into a total of about 10,000 distinct religions. Of the latter, there were 270 religions and para-religions which had over a half million adherents in the year 2000 CE. Within Christianity, they have identified 34,000 separate groups (denominations, sects, individual unaffiliated churches, para-church groups, etc) in the world. “Over half of them are independent churches that are not interested in linking with the big denominations.” 1

Surely at some point we must accept that they have no basis and stop diverting scarce resources to support them.

What if different family members have different beliefs? How far should we go as a society?

I thought electricity was kosher these days anyhoo…

I’m thinking of getting into religion – I have 2 work colleagues (one jewish the other ? – 7th day adventist I think) who insist that every Friday they have to leave work early (in daylight hours) as they can’t burn fuel in their cars / or turn lights on and must be home before it is dark….

Amazing what some people get away with.

How come no one has yet suggested that they should bugger off back to Israel if they don’t like it here ?

Because the article wasn’t in the Daily Mail.

the more conservative have contrived to keep it banned on sabbath it would seem…

as science became more advanced, and the properties of fire and electricity became better understood, this reasoning broke down: fire is a chemical reaction involving the release of energy; the flow of an electric current is a physical reaction. Therefore, some hold that the proper reason it is forbidden to complete electric circuits is because it involves construction or building

some people obviously enjoy inconvenience. That should be their prerogative. It shouldnt effect anyone else around them though.

How far should we go as a society?

And at one point does someone’s deeply held convictions start to count as religious beliefs which have to be accommodated? If I felt strongly that windows were the work of Satan, could I insist that they be removed from my place of work as it was discriminating against me? Or should I instead be referred to mental health services?

Might be handy for taxi drivers if the court finds for…..

Alf Blackcab – you are accused of charging 500 pounds for a 7 mile taxi journey – what do you have to say
– well guv, it was only 7 miles but as the jouney started at 5 to midnight on saturday I had to switch off after 5 minutes, and then there was the 24 hours wiating time …………..

How come no one has yet suggested that they should bugger off back to Israel if they don’t like it here ?

Because they are white and have a nice English sounding name?

This prohibition also was (and in many circles, still is) commonly understood to disallow operating electrical switches. When actuating electromechanical switches that carry a live current, there is always the possibility that a small electric spark will be generated.

Pendantically, you’ll get the spark when you break the circuit rather than make it. So you’re ok switching lights on on the sabbath, providing you don’t switch them off.
*Edit – though I now see the argument is more subtle. God is so complex sometimes.

Presumably for similar reasons, they don’t where nylon underwear for fear of static build up 🙂

but as the jouney started at 5 to midnight on saturday…

It might be apposite if you knew when the Jewish Sabbath was.

Stoner.
Then Mercury operated swithces would be tickety boo then, no ‘spark’ you see.

So – does my local pub have to stop serving alcohol during Ramadan in case it offends Muslims who may be there having a quiet glass of lemonade?

Or is it up to religionists to check that they don’t put themselves on situations at odds with their religious customs?

Do you think they drive down on Friday night?