I’m considering the next few years or so, and it’s said that success in sales on your CV opens many doors. So, what did all you ex salespeople consider/move onto? Not that remaining in Sales remains out of the question…

5 years ago that was exactly my thoughts, almost 14 years working for a big corporate had driven me to despair of the role. Took my redundancy, rode my bike for a while convinced I wasn’t going back to it. Then a call from an old colleague who gave my name to a small company (3 staff rather than 40k) they had some interesting products and plans, I became the sales manager, procurement manager, marketing manager, logistics, conference organiser. Now we have a grand total of 4 staff and it’s as much fun as I’ve had in work. Smaller works so much quicker, no chain of command going through 3 time zones and 12 levels of business speak, complete autonomy to make decisions based on mutual trust and respect of knowledge and experience.

I still think that I will pack it in at some stage and something different just for the hell of it (once the mortgage is gone and the pension has had some further topping up) but don’t discount moving around within sales, a change of scenery might be all that’s needed to give you back the motivation or enjoyment back. It can be demanding being in a constant cycle of targets and numbers.

That’s really tricky as Sales is not universally viewed as a source of good people or good quality staff. It depends on many things such as your background, approach to work, the sector you have experience in and the transferable skills you have, technical knowledge etc. etc.

Already some interesting points. without blowing my own trumpet I’m good at what I do, very disciplined with CRMs and process, but am also to my advantage a long term SME in my field, successful sales here doesn’t mean successful sales somewhere else.

I’ve managed professional services teams with a successful mentor manager style before and am – now 5 years in – very much enjoying sales for the most part, but having one of my ex-employees now as a Director interview me as a 360 degree interview next week has made me feel like I to take responsibility and step up. Also, our company is going through a lot of change with my manager being criticised, and I don’t see a rung up the ladder being available currently, although I’m at the top of the kudos ladder again this quarter.

This isn’t a moan – I made a choice to be an individual contributor so missing available promotions was my choice, I’m just thinking about leading a team perhaps, but without experience in Sales management what might that be? Back to professional services? Sales operations…?

it’s said that success in sales on your CV opens many doors.

Locksmith?

I’ve managed teams for 15 years.

The best thing about managing a team..the people

The worst thing about managing a team..the people

It can be rewarding and it can also suck your very lifeforce away.

Why not draw up a list of your strengths and weaknesses and then ask someone you trust professionally to review it with you. Where you end up is anyone’s guess but self reflection and looking at other roles can be useful. If you decide to continue doing your current role that exercise will probably improve your performance anyway.

I did it backwards…

technical sales > product manager > research scientist

Thanks elShalimo, I have all that done and agree with the people sentiments! I’ve been spending s lot of time look at companies who share my values rather than job positions per se, so the reason I’m asking is to gain some idea about alternate job types to be looking for, within my broader skill set.

and it’s said that success in sales on your CV opens many doors

Probably only said by salespeople, though :p

Sales you say? And you want to use those skills doing something a little different? Something a little more rewarding perhaps?
Got any interest in agriculture or farming or rural affairs? If so, drop me a DM…

Before the pandemic I used to mainly work in retail but have now decided to train to be come a welder, after the lockdown has ended. I’m already a qualified scuba diver so looking to eventually combine the two and hopefully retire by 55.

Have you considered Project Management? especially CRM implementations -well organised and disciplined and know the field

Before the pandemic I used to mainly work in retail but have now decided to train to be come a welder, after the lockdown has ended. I’m already a qualified scuba diver so looking to eventually combine the two and hopefully retire by 55.

Try not to get the tanks mixed up.

Try not to get the tanks mixed up.
😂

@Kryton57 – if you feel there’s no progression where you are, moving on to a similar role in a company aligned to your values might be a really good move.. You get to continue the “day job” so there’s less immediate pressure as you’re developing the new relationships with new colleagues

Without knowing the specifics of the industrial sector all I can say is that your technical skill set is obviously very important but when making a move based on your values, the most important thing is your authenticity. It’s not to be underestimated just how important that is.

Best of luck!

I run a Sales Ops team for a global high tech business. Whilst sales experience is useful in the team it’s ultimately not the main thing we look for when hiring. My team is a mix of certified technical people, finance analysts and senior leaders.

In my experience a sole contributor has the ability to earn way beyond sales management and senior business leaders. There is risk to their earnings if they don’t perform so it’s swings and roundabouts.

I’ve worked in high tech for 12 years so this may differ from your sector.

Arnold Clark will take you on, give you a jacket almost a copy of my Gore one same colour and you will start as a product consultant
I always thought to become a consultant took years of experience

In my experience a sole contributor has the ability to earn way beyond sales management and senior business leaders. There is risk to their earnings if they don’t perform so it’s swings and roundabouts.

Indeed, but money isn’t everything. I think I have two issues, one or maybe both ego driven; the people I’ve employed have become senior to me and my current management has ensured I’m distanced away from the running of the business I’ve spent 28 years being involved with, making me feel very much a double glazing salesman rather than someone more involved in the business.

To be fair this has been seen by the MD who wants a personal meeting with me with the diplomacy switched off to find out why I’m frustrated. I’m think that the events if the last year have not helped, I do enjoy the mix of out/in office for the most part. Also, the non monetary perks of Sales have vanished with Covid – lunch meetings, quiet moments on a train, being involved with people, company strategy over a few beers etc.

and it’s said that success in sales on your CV opens many doors

Sort of, IME Sales Experience is good for continuous employment. Not for job satisfaction or progression. You’ll excuse me if this sounds negative, but it IS Monday morning and I’ve very tired today.

I’ve worked in a few industries now, but I’ve never sold any sand to any Arabs, I’ve never sold a dodgy Hoover to an old Granny on her Doorstep or UPVc windows on a 500% mark-up because I dangled my tie over the repayments on the HP form or a car that’s more filler than car.

I’ve spend the last 10 years, training, gaining skills, taking on more and more managerial responsibilities, home learning etc etc etc to move away from Sales. I’m 4 weeks in the my latest 8 week home-learning course. I’ll probably take a week off and start another.

Like @white101 said “I became the sales manager, procurement manager, marketing manager, logistics, conference organiser.” yep, lots of that. Well, until it looks like I might be actually be organising things into efficient systems, “getting ideas”…

90% of the sales part of my job (which is probably less than 50% of what I do these days) is 90% advice / consultancy. It’s all B2B Tech / IT / Security.

Despite this, my role as far as my colleagues is concerned is “the sales guy”. I work with people who think they’ve found me an amazing sales lead, because they took down the phone number on the side of a Van that drove past them in traffic. My colleagues largely dismiss me, because I’m not a Techie, they actually introduce me to clients as “Oh, I’ll get the Sales Guy to call you” which is always a great start to a relationship. In clients eyes I’m no longer there to help with with problem, I’m just there to steal their money.

It’s never hard finding a job, I get offers fairly regularly without ever asking, but it’s always the same, however they dress it up with ever increasing wild job titles, they nod along as I explain what I do, what I want to do and why I can do it, but it always ends the same way. They think I can double their orderbook just by being there.

So much analysis in your post PJ!

They think I can double their orderbook just by being there.

Sales is a lot harder than most people think. One of my career concerns is that transitioning into a business I don’t know does not mean I’m going to be successful despite how successful I am at my current role.

I looked at the role @lunge (thanks Lunge) mentioned and although I’d have a lot of transferable skills to manage that role, my approach to risk wouldn’t allow me to move to that quite yet.

It’s never hard finding a job, I get offers fairly regularly

Because usually, good Sales people are valued contributors to the top line. In my current role I’m undoubtably this, and either need to get comfortable with the lifestyle that brings AND the perception from other staff, or change.

I work with people who think they’ve found me an amazing sales lead

We had a consultant invited into a management call last week, who decided to bleat on that if only we diversified our content into UK Manufacturing this was a sure fire winning sales strategy, and why the hell weren’t our team doing that? The uber boss only just concealed his derision and you could feel the Sales team sticking point in voodoo dolls behind the Teams video coverage.

I’ve never sold any sand to any Arabs, I’ve never sold a dodgy Hoover to an old Granny on her Doorstep or UPVc windows on a 500% mark-up because I dangled my tie over the repayments on the HP form or a car that’s more filler than car.

Me neither I’n a solution seller because I understand customer problems and works towards helping them solve them. E.G> I wouldn’t work at Arnold Clark because thats selling boxes, but I might work at Park Lane Aston Martin* finding and specifying the next suitable car for one of my long term clients.

*Brand not intended to portray my status, but a differentiation of the buying process.

I find sales fascinating, it spans many different roles (eg the classic ‘farmer’ account manager to ‘lone wolf’ hunter types).

Probably the hardest role to recruit for as you can never tell how good someone is going to be until you hire them as they have a very specific job eg land $5m in orders from these new customers. It’s very black and white, either they have the contacts / experience with that customer and can get ‘in’ or they can’t.

We have a very lumpy sales pipeline, a few large orders with a few large customers (Telcos). Big orders are several $m in one hit, so each Sales guy has a very small number of high value customers to manage.

We’ve hired far more blaggers than achievers and obviously the blaggers don’t last long.

We also have account managers who do a very different job, managing existing customers with established relationships where ordering our product is just something the customer does without really thinking about it.

I work a lot with the sales guy on the technical side but still have no idea what they really do – some are truly terrible communicators we don’t hear from them for weeks and no on knows where they are. But as long as the orders come in, it’s all ok…

The BSers are hillarious. We hired one guy, who promptly vanished for two weeks. In our attempts to contact him we phoned his wife you told us he’d gone to the Phillapines on business for us as his first trip. That wasn’t part of his territory and she was quite surprised to find we had no idea where he was. Needless to say when he’s got back from shagging small children we fired him and his wife probably left him….

We also have account managers who do a very different job, managing existing customers with established relationships where ordering our product is just something the customer does without really thinking about it.

Most of my vendors fall into this camp. Frankly I think I’m an Account Managers Dream Client.

I actively avoid vendors who call me to chat about our “weekends”. I dislike anyone I have to phone to place an order with. I absolutely detest having to barter or any of that shit.

90% of the things I order on behalf of client I do via a portal. but a few I have to e-mail I have a hardware vendor who has told me I represent 30% of his sales, my order process is an e-mail that is usually 3 lines long. “Hi xxxx, please send me 50x 1676476 50x 7870987 and 50x 897970, thanks PJ” We usually run a cash surplus, so I always pay invoices in advance.

I use Him, and the others because their product is good, it turns up when it should and there’s an automated process of updates so if something goes missing my end I can find it, they send the invoice in a format the accounts are happy with so they don’t give me shit, when I audit pricing every quarter they’d never cheated me but most importantly if things go wrong, which is an inevitable part of life, they sort it out.

I get cold calls all the time, it’s an another inevitable part of life. I cannot stand ‘Geezers’ who make massive promises of amazing products or huge discounts, they tend to fall to pieces when I ask about their processes. Most of them don’t even know how they send their invoices, what their payment terms are etc.

Probably the hardest role to recruit for as you can never tell how good someone is going to be until you hire them as they have a very specific job eg land $5m in orders from these new customers. It’s very black and white, either they have the contacts / experience with that customer and can get ‘in’ or they can’t.

They’re a dying breed, or in the industries I’ve worked in anyway. Business Finance was like that, you spent your days building relationships, having meetings for the sake of meetings, lunches, drinks are Xmas etc, becoming Friends with the FD or whatever so when they needed funding they’d speak to you and only you. The Credit Crunch killed all that, for finance anyway. Things are more impersonal / business-like now, the relationship is with the business, not the individual. It’s harder to pick up your little black book of contacts and take it to another employer.

I use Him, and the others because their product is good, it turns up when it should and there’s an automated process of updates so if something goes missing my end I can find it, they send the invoice in a format the accounts are happy with so they don’t give me shit, when I audit pricing every quarter they’d never cheated me but most importantly if things go wrong, which is an inevitable part of life, they sort it out.

You absolutely are a dream client and I’d be fleecing you in the nicest possible way for that approach 😉

I get cold calls all the time, it’s an another inevitable part of life. I cannot stand ‘Geezers’ who make massive promises of amazing products or huge discounts, they tend to fall to pieces when I ask about their processes. Most of them don’t even know how they send their invoices, what their payment terms are etc.

This is the different side of Sales and is not a solution Sale. A decent Sales person knows they need to make money for their employer but also knows enough about you to take that money from you having shown you a benefit hopefully greater value first. You should feel good about putting more money into my hands this year, and not because you can’t be arsed with a conversation but because every time you pick up the phone to me I add value to your organisation, with thats for the annual renewal or something else I’m bring to the table. In this example my job is to have understood your business and business issues well enough to be able to pitch that perfectly.

Hmmm, maybe I should stick where I am 😀

Maybe “Life after Sales” is retirement?

😉

Most of my vendors fall into this camp. Frankly I think I’m an Account Managers Dream Client.

I actively avoid vendors who call me to chat about our “weekends”. I dislike anyone I have to phone to place an order with. I absolutely detest having to barter or any of that shit.

90% of the things I order on behalf of client I do via a portal. but a few I have to e-mail I have a hardware vendor who has told me I represent 30% of his sales, my order process is an e-mail that is usually 3 lines long. “Hi xxxx, please send me 50x 1676476 50x 7870987 and 50x 897970, thanks PJ” We usually run a cash surplus, so I always pay invoices in advance.

I use Him, and the others because their product is good, it turns up when it should and there’s an automated process of updates so if something goes missing my end I can find it, they send the invoice in a format the accounts are happy with so they don’t give me shit, when I audit pricing every quarter they’d never cheated me but most importantly if things go wrong, which is an inevitable part of life, they sort it out.

I’d just say that’s a symptom of a well functioning business & an account manager making sure the wheels are turning as they should do.

It’s fairly basic business 101 – provide the service people expect, at a sensible price & fix stuff quickly when things go wrong. You remove the reason for people to go looking elsewhere as they just become reliant on you & your business just working. The net result is the above.

I guess that there even is “life after sales” just goes to prove that sales folk haven’t sold their soul to the devil. They’ve just leased it out for a tidy commission.

This thread’s an interesting read. I did some sales and escaped. The biggest change was one I wasn’t expecting – Moving from being a source of revenue to a cost and the mindset change was odd.

I felt that I relied on the sales team’s performance to pay my mortgage and, while the job was secure, being a step away from that influence was a bit uncomfortable.

Most of my vendors fall into this camp. Frankly I think I’m an Account Managers Dream Client.

I actively avoid vendors who call me to chat about our “weekends”. I dislike anyone I have to phone to place an order with. I absolutely detest having to barter or any of that shit.

90% of the things I order on behalf of client I do via a portal. but a few I have to e-mail I have a hardware vendor who has told me I represent 30% of his sales, my order process is an e-mail that is usually 3 lines long. “Hi xxxx, please send me 50x 1676476 50x 7870987 and 50x 897970, thanks PJ” We usually run a cash surplus, so I always pay invoices in advance.

I use Him, and the others because their product is good, it turns up when it should and there’s an automated process of updates so if something goes missing my end I can find it, they send the invoice in a format the accounts are happy with so they don’t give me shit, when I audit pricing every quarter they’d never cheated me but most importantly if things go wrong, which is an inevitable part of life, they sort it out.

I’d just say that’s a symptom of a well functioning business & an account manager making sure the wheels are turning as they should do.

It’s fairly basic business 101 – provide the service people expect, at a sensible price & fix stuff quickly when things go wrong. You remove the reason for people to go looking elsewhere as they just become reliant on you & your business just working. The net result is the above.

This is my attitude.

It helps knowing the Industry, which of course you should do.

The fact is there are only a few routes to market for IT hardware, most of it goes via a single large disti who offers volume discounts I don’t get to other sellers, some only sell trade, some do a bit of trade and retail.

I can spend hours a day, going to the 6/7 vendors we have, play them off each other, argue over prices, piece orders together so save a couple of %.

I think if I did that with every order I could save a couple of grand a year, that’s a couple of grand that would go straight on the ‘bottom line’, but to do that I’d probably need to employ someone, at least part-time to manage all that and that’s before you consider what happens when things go wrong.

So yeah, I get ‘fleeced’ a couple of quid a unit. But that mean the Vendor really wants to keep me happy, really wants to make sure that easy repeat business doesn’t walk away, so we have a good relationship, but it’s a relationship based on professionalism rather than an awkward forced conversations about “the Football” or whatever. I review things every quarter, To be honest when we’ve had a bad experience it’s always been with a new Vendor and I won’t use them again.

The problem with that ^^ conversation, is its based on Money and not Value. I guess it depends on your LOB, my clients would be pretty disappointed with me if all I was doing was talking about the former.

The problem with that ^^ conversation, is its based on Money and not Value.

Yep, our products are not the cheapest but we offer far more value in terms of support than our competitors. We actively work with customers to help them maximise the value they get from our products, ideally building a relationship which lasts decades. Our philisophy as a vendor is that we only get repeat orders if our customers are successful, so we’d better do everything we can to ensure they are.

The problem with that ^^ conversation, is its based on Money and not Value. I guess it depends on your LOB, my clients would be pretty disappointed with me if all I was doing was talking about the former.

Actually for my place it’s the opposite.

The product is the same, Dell, HP, Cisco, Ubiquiti it doesn’t matter, different vendors, same product.

The value to me is speed and ease of service and support for problems. Which in turns means my clients projects are completed on time.

If I were the end user, which I’m not they could add value by offering me solutions rather than products, but that’s my job.

Have you thought about setting up on your own?

That’s what I did, partly through choice, partly because I couldn’t get excited about yet another senior media sales role. I just didn’t love the product and couldn’t face motivating another team. (Previously 15 years mostly agency/publisher experience B2B tech).

Took a few days out and thought about where I can help most. And decided that’s working with really smart founders, boffins, who don’t find sales or pitching or marketing comes natural to them. I offer up a mix of strategy, coaching and hands on outsourced Sales Director.

12 months later and I could not be happier, this is my gig: https://makethebreak.co

I’ve ended up working with some fascinating companies and learned more in the last 12 months than probably the previous 5 years.

It’s also paid for my new stanton slackline 🙂

OP if your thinking of taking the plunge, happy to chat. I’m glad I did.

12 months later and I could not be happier, this is my gig: https://makethebreak.co

Nice website!

cheers 🙂

this is my gig: https://makethebreak.co

Just… wow. Congratulations on that, thats quite motivating and plays to my kind bible (David Sawyers Reset).

Its strikes me, have you considered a Junior partner? Someone like me who’d like to tap into your experience but is too nervous perhaps to make it on their own. E.g. I work for your company under your brief generating my own independent client list but contributing a percent earnings to you for your business acumen/effort.

Well, its got legs in my mind…. 😀

Also, the non monetary perks of Sales have vanished with Covid – lunch meetings, quiet moments on a train, being involved with people, company strategy over a few beers etc.

Just caught up on this thread.  I’m in tech sales too so much of this resonates with me.  I’m totally with you on this.  A year of WFH on Zoom, and in addition from my target vertical being heavily impacted by Covid (I’m new biz so this directly impacts my earnings and potential job security) the best parts of the job have been sucked out of it.  I’m really looking forward to getting back into face to face meetings, speaking with colleagues over a coffee and getting reacquainted with my kindle on the commute into London.

Some really useful stuff in here, pjay for a different view of things and thanks razoorazoo for posting that, I think we are in very similar positions as I’m new business as well with a Local Gov/ supporting civil engineering vertical.

It’s funny, I never thought I’d miss walking the streets and sitting in Starbucks discussing a strategy so much, and razoorazoo has made me aware that maybe this impact of Covid / Teams is a major cause of my frustrations. One of my favourite small moments was solo breakfast and Coffee in Benugo above Waterloo’s platforms whilst waiting for a train, just people watching and letting pre 9am calls go to VM.

Food for thought that, no pun intended.

After nearly 25years of sales with 2 blue chip engineering companies, I threw the towel in last year

Got too much of a drag, simply had enough.

My other half didn’t know I resigned till I told her one night that I only had a week to go. (She’s very understanding and supportive in what I do)

So, after renovations made to the house and plenty me/family time I bought a van.

I now deliver parcels for Amazon (through an agent) deliver pharmaceutical products through another agent, and the odd man in a van job.

It’s the best move I have ever made in my whole working life.

I decide what I do when it suits me. Go home and nothing to worry about. No switching on to check emails and no invasion of my personal life after I’m done for the day.

Can be long hours, pay is relative to how much you work.

Meet some fantastic people, no office HQ bollocks

The gig economy isn’t for everyone but suits me perfectly.

I support sales quite a bit, a lot of long haul flights to visit customers with the sales guy to provide ‘technical backup’. I was completely sick of airports before CV-19, and whilst I miss the odd meeting in an interesting place, overall I prefer doing everything by zoom!

The main downside is my FB feed is no longer full of interesting photos from random ME / African / USA states; but it’s a small price to pay for zero jet lag and zero time in airport lounges.