Too right you can!

Out of curiosity how would you describe your ability / level?

Fast riders are always faster. Great cornering technique generates tons of extra grip by forcing the tyre into the ground right when the lateral forces are highest, leaning the tyre just so and balancing the front/rear weighting – when I’m having a good day I’m way quicker around corners than on a bad day and that’s on the same tyres and my cornering technique is far from great! But that doesn’t stop me being consistently quicker on better tyres and having more good days when I have tyres that I trust more. And still getting owned by better riders on worse bikes with bald tyres… 😉

I’ve found the black chili compounds used in the Trail King / Rubber Queen and Baron have very good wear rates. The carbon black additive in them is in rods rather than granules which means they hold together far better whilst flexing well to give the grip – the Baron is similar to a super tacky Maxxis and wears less than half as quickly. The RQ/TK is a bit less sticky but not far behind and wears even better. And they roll faster, especially the RQ/TK.

Are the cost comparisons based on like for like tyres and is it really a doubling of sale price in six years?

Geax gato on the front is immense, run it soft, twinned with a sagguro on the back, beautiful.

chiefgrooveguru – Member
I’ve found the black chili compounds used in the Trail King / Rubber Queen and Baron have very good wear rates. The carbon black additive in them is in rods rather than granules which means they hold together far better whilst flexing well to give the grip – the Baron is similar to a super tacky Maxxis and wears less than half as quickly. The RQ/TK is a bit less sticky but not far behind and wears even better. And they roll faster, especially the RQ/TK.

Interesting – so for tyres with a specific durometer you are getting significantly higher wear rates from one company than with another?

Is this carbon rod technology significantly more expensive?
Do Schwalbe have a patent?
I’ve not seen this advantage emphasized in any advertising – genuine longer life with the same grip would appear to be a major marketing advantage – I’d be tempted to try it if they can provide genuine data.

Spin – Member

Too right you can!

Out of curiosity how would you describe your ability / level?

FFS, what has ability got to do with it?
If you can tell the difference between tyres, you can tell the difference – better riders can ride anything, as we know.

But to suggest some sort of correlation between ultimate ability and sensitivity to bike setup contradicts not only my personal experience but that of the majority of people I’ve spoken to:
Some are sensitive to setup – some not.
Bugger all to do with ultimate ability.

Spin – rather than blow my own trumpet, it’s easier to say I’m on my limit when riding my two main trails, so notice any changes to my bike setup whether it’s to do with my tyres or anything else. Strava doesn’t help, neither does riding with folk who’ve been riding well for years.

Edit – I think anyone would notice a difference when trying to ride up some technical climbs, especially if it’s rocky, rooty, wet or all of those.

Black chili does last really well- it’s clever stuff. Though ime the sidewalls don’t last as well, one of my Barons went in the bin with bald sidewalls and probably 2/3ds of its tread left.

Van Halen – Member

Having seen people ride twice as fast as me on bald old tyres it’s definitely not tyre/tread or compound you want to worry about.

TBF good performing tyres are probably more important for the semi-skilled than the really skilled! Doesn’t make any sense to me to say “Other dudes ride faster than you therefore you might as well not bother building a bike that works for you”

As for telling the difference… I couldn’t sip a tyre and tell you the vinyard and vintage but it’s not hard to tell a tyre that works better or worse for you.

I can really tell the difference. I like very predictable tyres that can be leaned on. At the back I definitely prefer less grip than at the front, finally I like a stiff carcass.

d45yth – Member

Edit – I think anyone would notice a difference when trying to ride up some technical climbs, especially if it’s rocky, rooty, wet or all of those.

My own experience:
My Mrs, when just starting out as an MTB’er (but as a very experienced roadie), was not attuned to the niceties of smooth power delivery & lower pressures off road.
Nowt wrong with that, these things had never affected her before.

However:
She could ride up Colden Clough in Hebden with a part worn Ignitor on the back, yet in the same gear, at the same pressures, could not get a High Roller to grip consistantly at all. Spin, grip, spin, grip etc.
Same person, two tyres, very different results.

I’d bet cold hard cash on replicating the same result with another self confessed pedal-masher.

There’s a corner at Hurstwood that amuses me greatly with a very, very slightly flatter profiled XR4, yet scares the gravy out of me with a Smorg on the front – no idea why – never ran out of grip on either, but the ‘feel’ is different.

I’m a Specialised Ground Control front and rear type person, having tried all sorts of other things over the years. For 95% of my riding I find them fast, grippy and dependable. Could be better in mud, and a bit low volume for some of the bigger stuff, but never rubbish.

I find that tyre pressure makes more difference than anything else though.

Whathaveisaidnow – Member
Geax gato on the front is immense, run it soft, twinned with a sagguro on the back, beautiful.

Agree with this though now got a new Geax Goma 29er tyre to try on the front

Everyone was raving at the EWS about some new WTB tyre.

Slight problem is that WTB tyres don’t work with Stan’s rims, if that matters to you.

Everyone at ews was riding crossmax enduros!

Most people I saw were running magic Marys I think

Lol. By all means by a bike that fits but a tyre is not really going to make that much difference. Confidence is. Obviously a semi slick in the wetbwont help ect etc.

FFS, what has ability got to do with it?

It’s not the whole story but it has lots to do with it. When people review skis they state their own skiing preferences, experience and ability which helps others make a choice. Inexperienced riders are likely to attribute differences to tyres rather than technique whilst experienced riders are better able to tease out the differences.

A good example is the old ‘High Rollers don’t have good lateral grip’ thing. Good riders lay the bike over and find the knobs, less confident riders don’t.

Perhaps experience is a better word than ability.

A good example is the old ‘High Rollers don’t have good lateral grip’ thing. Good riders lay the bike over and find the knobs, less confident riders don’t.

You’ve just contradited yourself – so you agree that people of all abilities CAN tell the difference between tyres.

Whether they have the skills required to ride around that particular tyres deficiencies is neither here nor there.

You said there was a correlation between ability and sensitivity to tyres.
You’re wrong.

And on the subject of High Rollers:
One of the biggest marketing con tricks ever pulled on the cycling public:
A tyre that only works properly in conditions that the majority of recreational riders will never see, but utterly hopeless for the majority of people most of the time.

Ah well.
Proof that if you gave a turd a memorable name and a nice logo, people will queue to buy it.

You’re wrong.

Fair enough. It’s happened before.

One of the biggest marketing con tricks ever pulled on the cycling public:
A tyre that only works properly in conditions that the majority of recreational riders will never see, but utterly hopeless for the majority of people most of the time.

I’ve never heard so much rubbish!
Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone.
At least Maxxis seem to know how to make a sidewall (with their EXO ones anyway). Maybe Schwalbe have caught up with their new Nobby Nic – don’t know.

One of the biggest marketing con tricks ever pulled on the cycling public

Thinking about it, if someone liked a tyre I didn’t I’d probably assume they had a different riding style or terrain preference rather than think they were the vicims of some marketing ploy.

There are certain broad parameters of tyre design but within them the differences are miniscule.

Shoot me down if you like, I can’t help but think that for most folks a strong sensitivity to tyres is like the proverbial bad workman.

AlexSimon – Member

I’ve never heard so much rubbish!
Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it’s the same for everyone.

Ok, try the ‘newbie pedal masher’ test yourself.
High Rollers have very little centre or intermediate grip compared to many other tyres.

Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. 🙂

Ive discovered the High Roller exception to be a surprisingly excellent rear tyre on the SS, it digs in very nicely and with proper weight distribution, it has very good traction going up in the mud and it clears quickly. I’d agree with the lateral sliding as do I with the side knobs, once I changed my riding style to make the tyre work well for me.

Which is what it’s all about IMHO.

Yes, there are naturally fast riders, smooth riders, confident riders. These are generally those who are able to almost instantly adapt their riding techniques according to each bike they get on and make the bike and the sum of its parts work for them.

I’m not one of those naturally adept, it takes me a while to figure this stuff out, but as soon as I do, I am a riding deity 😉

Ok, try the ‘newbie pedal masher’ test yourself.

Can’t – I have too much souplesse 🙂
I also don’t use the HR as a rear tyre (although in theory the Ardent should be worse, but I’m fine with that).

With the addition of dropper posts – my side-knobs are getting much more use than they used to. But I still like to roll along nicely on the flat.

These new semi-slick designs like the rock razor, that have large side knobs are a great idea imo, especially if they have a hardish-wearing compound in the centre.

So who wins the tyre war? best combo for trail centers, and best for non groomed trails?

Ok, I’m quite happy that the Chunky Monkey is an excellent front tyre, but For a week in afan and bikepark wales in the summer would you put an ardent, aspen or racing ralph on the rear?
And how noticeable is the transition from centre to side knobs on maxxis tyres everyone rants about? Scary in the middle or drifty and fun?

ardent rear chrisc
i never had a problem with leaning over maxxiss but i always ran a minion up front and HR at the back

HR2s F & R on my new bike and they are much better in the mud and grips loads better up front and can be leant over nicely, than the old HRs