Hello,

I’ve got a Kaffenback II which while OK for the purpose, commuting, fitness etc it is really uninspiring and dull for a steel frame.
Been looking around for a alternative with a bit more clearance…. I’ve had a quick look so far and the Cotic Roadrat/Escapde are looking good options.

Are they good options? is there anything out similar price? Reynolds tubing would be nice but might be a bit of of the price bracket, I don’t think I’m careful enough to have a carbon frame…..

Thanks in advance

Cheers, Steve

Charge plug 5 frame on ebay?

Tange prestige

Budget?

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/road-bikes-c5/road-c37/kona-roadhouse-road-bike-2016-p17219

and go via a cashback site for another ~70 quid off.

Genesis Croix de fer?

I found my Escapade very dull.

In general wide tyred frames are built to take offroad abuse so they have to be tough and hence are a bit dead.

If you want something sprightly then go for something slim and lightweight and flexy.

Charge plug 5 frame

Nice one but there is not that much space up rear. 38c at a push with next to nothing clearance.

Realistically bald rubber up to 38c will fit but without any slack for mudguard or sth like that.

I like my Plug very much, but someone that was designing placement of top and bottom bridge in rear triangle should be dragged naked on the snowy streets of most northern part of north…

Cheers!
I.

If you want something sprightly then go for something slim and lightweight and flexy.

Like a 30-year old Raleigh! 😀

My 853 genisis fugio is probably the least “dull” bike I own, not sure whether that’s down to the material or geometry though as its a cross bike. Rode a Escapade when looking at bikes last year and didn’t like it, not sure I’d describe it as dull, more just a bit “meh”

I’ve said this before but the Genesis Equilibrium 20 disc 2016 version might still be available, c£900 down from £1550. Google first then ask your local stockist to check with their rep.

As a fellow owner of a Kaff, anything will be more lively and interesting than it. Saying that, I have ridden a mates Escapade and wasn’t that impressed, it was better than the Kaff but not by much and certainly enough to warrant a new purchase.

Fairlight Faran frameset and swap over as much as you can?

+1 for the Genesis Equilibrium (non disc in my case). Prefer the ride over my previous Pegoretti Marcelo but that’s mainly because the Pegi likes to be ridden hard and I’m not strong enough to do that any more. Maybe the OP should state their size and likely riding style to help tailor some of the responses?

Anybody interested in a 58cm used Pegoretti frame and fork?

When I was looking at bikes I thought these looked fab

http://konaworld.com/rove_st.cfm

I ended up with an Aluminium bike with carbon fork. As at my price point the Al didn’t seem any better or worse than steel

My other half has a Kona Rove and it really should not be considered a ‘road bike’. It is one heavy beast of a bike. Performs well offroad, but is very slow on road. If you want a less dull steel road bike, you are going to have to spend proper money in my opinion to get a proper road bike, not a gravel / commuting type bike

Fairlight Faran frameset and swap over as much as you can?

Yea should of said I was looking frame only…..Salsa Marrakesh looks a good option but I’m not keen on the colour…

thanks for the link.

Cheers, Steve

You don’t need to spend loads to get a ‘springy’ steel frame.

One of the nicest frames I’ve ever ridden was a British Eagle gas pipe job.

Don’t forget you can get custom built steel for way less than many off the peg/’Taiwanese with a fashionable name’ frames.

Don’t be so harsh on the Kaffenback – it’s not so harsh on you (literally). It might be dull but it’s sturdy and reassuring (insert daft similie to taste). It could do with a bit more clearance and the toe overlap takes some getting used to.

It’s geometry that makes the bike feel dull, that and weight. Steel will always be heavier, but decent road geometry with a little small diameter tube flex makes for a great ride

Look for 73 degree head and seat tube angles. The kaffenback has slack touring geometry. What you want is more racey. Kona Haole was perfect as is the paddy wagon if you don’t want gears. Any off the peg 525 frame from a good builder will suffice if the geometry is right.

Not a croix de fer! Well not a 2015 croix de fer 10. Mine although is a good commuter and light tourer. On the road it is a lifeless lump compared to my Ritchey Logic Road bike.

You don’t need to spend loads to get a ‘springy’ steel frame…

…One of the nicest frames I’ve ever ridden was a British Eagle gas pipe job.
.

Funny, I was thinking of my old British Eagle Touristique (Reynolds 531). Lovely bike, very comfortable. But I ended up with a modern Genesis offroad tourer/monstercross thingy*. Would have both if I could.

*Frame is seamless Double-Butted Chromoly Fork is unicrown Double-Butted Cr-Mo. Although not exactly lightweight I feel it’s plenty lively. ymmv

I’ve had both a Genesis Day One 853 and a Croix de Fer 725. Both felt dull to ride. Now have a Niner RLT (Aluminium) and a Kinesis Tripster (Titanium). Much better.

I love the look of steel but find aluminium a better material for bikes.

Surly Pacer

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pacer/geometry

136mm headtube and flat top bar..not for me or many others looking at the owners posting pics with steerer extenders.

really uninspiring and dull for a steel frame.

Is ‘dull’ a slacker more stable geometry or a stiffer tubeset? I think that gets confused or the terms get used for 2 separate characteristics of a frame.

eg, the Escapade doesn’t use particularly stiff-looking tube ODs and is unlikely to be very thick-wall tubing, but it does have a relaxed geometry. Some here might call it dull, others springy and ‘real steel feel’.

eg again, for me the more flexible steel tubes don’t always mix so well with a stable geometry but others like that combo. Some like relatively stiff steel frames that only spring under pressure – smaller or less powerful riders could find them ‘dead’. Some like steel frames that ‘plane’ or flex under pedalling, stronger riders may find that means negative flex under harder handling.
The thing is not to think a frame has a characteristic that is fixed, it’s more of a subjective impression and a case of finding a frame with flex levels that suit you.

The thing is not to think a frame has a characteristic that is fixed, it’s more of a subjective impression and a case of finding a frame with flex levels that suit you.

This rings true. (Goes to tap fingernail on tubesets 😉 )

I think I find it a tad stiff, I had a Cannondale caad8 Saeco back in 2006 and that was a dreadful bone shaker, I didn’t keep it long and put me off aluminium until I rode the Cannondale MTB I bought last year, but I still need a steel bike of some sorts…..
Maybe I should try fitting wider tyres and carbon forks…

I did want to get a Ragley Rodwell (Alu I know) before I bought the Kaffenback but couldn’t find one 🙁

Cheers, Steve

one of Dom’s Bokehs ? yes i know it’s aluminium but if it’s anything
like the definition i have it rides superbly.

resolution from Dom is steel…

And about 3x what I want to spend…..

Cheers, Steve

Fairlight Strael :

Strael

Charlie has a sale on ritchey swiss cross frame, not quite road specific though.

http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/fairlight-cycles-strael-first-look-48724/

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8gTfjXryq8[/video]

I suggest that you get on eBay and LFGSS forum to try to find an older steel bike.

I have a Merckx Corsa Extra that has standard diameter tubing (25mm top tube, 28mm seat tube and down tube) which has a spritely ride, with a bit of flex, and also stable geometry (relatively long wheel base). Very comfy bike to ride all day. Weighs 2.1kg for the frame and 700g for the fork.

I also have a Colnago Superissimo Brain which has oversize tubing – oversize as defined in the early 90s. This has a 28mm top tube, 32mm downtube and 28mm seattube. This is a very lively bike with shorter chainstays and wheel base when compared to the Merckx. Still comfy to ride but a bit more “direct” – not quite as straightforward to ride when tired. Weighs 1.8kg for the frame and 650g for the fork, so pretty light despite being essentially lugged, oversize double butted cro-mo.

The problem (in my opinion) with modern steel frames is that they have to pass the CEN test and manufacturers are trying to match the stiffness of carbon frames. This leads to dull and heavy frames.

For a British builder look out for Rourkes. These are all custom, though, so not quite as easy to pick out one or two models.

I prefer fatter tyres these days, but if I was looking for a a decent steel bike, the Pashley Pathfinder would get my attention.

Proper Reynolds 531/631, lugged frame, but with modern accoutrements, and from a British company.

What’s not to like?

Otherwise I’d be looking at a Shand Stoater

Singulars are always very nice too.

The comments suggesting looking at a quality second-hand frame should be considered. It doesn’t cost a fortune to get them refinished with a new paint job, and they’re as good as new. The only problem is you can’t use a lot of modern components.

Basically they don’t deteriorate if looked after, and the ride is very nice. I have a 40 year old Flying Scot and a 50 year Andre Bertin both lugged frames built with good Reynolds 531 or 531C and they ride and track beautifully.

What makes the bike ride well is not just the frame but overall weight, tyres and pressure.

I doubt one 5lb road framed bike will differ from another until you lighten the build.

As above any 531 or similar will ride nicer but you may not notice until the build is lighter. See comparison to Sunday beat Ritxhey Logic above.

cynic-al – Member
What makes the bike ride well is not just the frame but overall weight, tyres and pressure.

I doubt one 5lb road framed bike will differ from another until you lighten the build…

There are subtle differences IMO. I love my Pompino, it’s a great bike, but it’s not as sweet to ride as my older lugged frame bikes.

I do suspect it’s got an awful lot to do with the fore and aft compliance of the front fork though. 🙂

A light build is always nice though – working on the principle of nothing heavier than it needs to be rather than ultimate weight weenie.

Are they good options? is there anything out similar price? Reynolds tubing would be nice but might be a bit of of the price bracket, I don’t think I’m careful enough to have a carbon frame…..

Soma Double Cross is nice. I went from one of those to a carbon Dirty Disco and – touch wood – haven’t broken it so far. I dinged the top tune of the Soma though. Carbon is tougher than you think. And repairable. Mate of mine broke the seat-stay on a Scott, repaired it himself with a DIY kit and race the 3 Peaks next weekend without any problems.

Thanks for the ideas! Will keep it all in mind.
I do like the Cotic Escapade as I can get it local but would mean a new front wheel as far as I can tell.

Whatever I do it needs to be disc specific, and around the 3-500 mark, the Genesis Equilibrium does look tempting.

The other option is to stick with what I got and try some carbon forks, though carbon forks with 1/8th straight steerer and disc mounts seem hard to come by?

I upgraded from a disc kaffenback to an escapade. It’s a different ride and I prefer it. Especially as it’ll take 40mm tyres for more off-road fun. It’s ok to ride on the road but it’s not the most exciting bike to ride on road.

Buts that’s not really what it’s for…

I upgraded from a disc kaffenback to an escapade. It’s a different ride and I prefer it. Especially as it’ll take 40mm tyres for more off-road fun. It’s ok to ride on the road but it’s not the most exciting bike to ride on road.

Buts that’s not really what it’s for…

Thanks for that insight.

I don’t ride road that ofter…mainly as a commute and if don’t want to load the car up to go off proper road somewhere and just go around back roads a bit.

Cheers, Steve