I am not defending anyone from littering but if you want it to stop you will need to provide facilities for pretty obvious reasons.

Do you think our streets and countryside would be cleaner or dirtier if the council did not collect our bins?

Hire a skip.

Not a bad idea that …would the Skip hire company take one to a Gypsy camp?

Binners than god no one in a house is untidy and thankfully a quick walk down any street in britain or after a festival or large gathering shows you that house dwellers dont litter.

I cannot be arsed juts doing the polar opposite of your view…Yes some gypsies are untidy and so are some folk who live in houses, eat at Mc donalds or buy a pizza.

No idea if you’re trolling or not, but I’ll bite anyway.

I am not defending anyone from littering but if you want it to stop you will need to provide facilities for pretty obvious reasons.

No, if YOU want to stop it YOU don’t litter, like to the dog poo fairy, the fact the collection system doesn’t exist doesn’t excuse leaving it behind.

Do you think our streets and countryside would be cleaner or dirtier if the council did not collect our bins?

Or to paraphrase it

Do you think our streets and countryside would be cleaner or dirtier if we paid council tax and therefore the council did not collected our bins?

Junkyard,

Van’s are allowed to go to municipal dumps – if they pay to dump.
Non-travellers pay council tax which funds the dumps in the first place. Travellers don’t pay council tax, so they have to pay when the go to the dump.

Do you think our streets and countryside would be cleaner or dirtier if the council did not collect our bins?

Are you familiar with the concept of paying collectively for services we use collectively as a society? Its been around for a while. The services like refuse collection etc are payed for by a system called taxation. To expect to benefit from this, its generally expected that you contribute in some way

local paper is reporting that they are not moving and will go to court. the only issue for me is there taking up parking spaces, i never get any issues from them and they seem pleasent enough.

No, if YOU want to stop it YOU don’t litter, like to the dog poo fairy, the fact the collection system doesn’t exist doesn’t excuse leaving it behind

Dont disaggree and thank god we never have to clean our streets of litter and trail centres ar eutterly berefet of inner tubes, crisp packets and energy gels…**** gypsies eh riding our trails on their nicked bikes and shitting on the taple tops

Thank god we still have one group left in society to demonise
[obs

Don’t be daft! There are loads of groups left in society to be demonised

But you seem to be working on the assumption that if any group is demonised then they need should be championed and supported, without asking any frighfully awkward questions about WHY they’re demonised?

A sort of Ken Livingstone approach to hate-filled Islam-o-nutters. Just because the Daily Mail says they’re ****s, doesn’t automatically mean that they’re not

Pretty much every time the travellers come to town tools dissappear from our workshop and vans, coincidence? Me thinks not as they’ve already been down a day or two previous to have a nosey round for “scrap”, just wandering into the workshop and their eyes are darting around all over the place, clocking where our tackle is. I’m not nasty to em cos i dont want any bother but i won’t give em owt any more, we used to have a right nice lad come and take our scrap for about 6 months then he came and took a load and never came back wi the brass, shot himself in the dick there. As has been said before, 100+ times bitten, very bleeding shy.

ive never met an honest traveller in 22 years of police work, and ive met a lot of travellers
thats my experience

I don’t like any people turning up anywhere and leaving a load of rubbish and excrement when they leave.
ie. Sh*tting on somebody else’s doorstep.

Nor do I like any people stealing.

I dislike these things whether they are carried-out by people who live in houses with wheels or without.

If the perpetrators are ‘travelling folk’ who have chosen to opt-out out of society and all the benefits and responsibilities that entails, I do not buy the argument that that they should be free to do whatever they wish. Many of these people appear capable of keeping their caravans clean, but many also appear incapable of using a bin and have no issues with making somebody else’s property a mess.

I have noticed that ‘permanent’ Traveller sites (oxymoron?) are often very tidy. ie. The people using those facilities presumably don’t sh*t on their own doorsteps. I’ve always wondered whether those same people tidied up after themselves when they were travelling, before they became ‘non-travellers’.

The ‘race’ thing is peculiar as the ones I’ve encountered appear physically very similar to other northern Europeans and tend to speak with pseudo-Irish accents.

had a fantastic experience with a group of travellers on private land
about 20 caravans, owners calls police asks them to leave his land, which he wanted to build on
The head gyppo turns up and starts to spout they have rights, and they would get the gypsy council solicitors involved, told the owner it would take months to move them, and then went back to his caravan.
the landowner gets into a JCB which was parked on the site, fires it up and starts to dig a trench.
top gyppo comes back asking what ws going on, landowner tells him he is digging a trench round the caravans.
Head gyppo looks at us(police) for support
we tell him its a ncivil matter, landowner still digging trench
20 gyppo caravans move off the site in 10 mins,with their thieving tails beteen their legs
job done
Thats justice!

ive never met an honest traveller in 22 years of police work, and ive met a lot of travellers
thats my experience

Wow copper in meeting criminal shocker….I worked in a dole office once and never met anyone who worked and yet I never met a traveller.

But you seem to be working on the assumption that if any group is demonised then they need should be championed and supported, without asking any frighfully awkward questions about WHY they’re demonised?

Oh excellent do I get to grossly miosreperesent your view now and compare you to the BNP ? 🙄

I do not buy the argument that that they should be free to do whatever they wish.

Has anyone said they should?

I have noticed that ‘permanent’ Traveller sites (oxymoron?) are often very tidy. ie. The people using those facilities presumably don’t sh*t on their own doorsteps.

Shame the topries removed the council responsibilities to proivide sites eh

The ‘race’ thing is peculiar as the ones I’ve encountered appear physically very similar to other northern Europeans and tend to speak with pseudo-Irish accents

Cant even be arsed with that one

junkyard
you wont meet atraveler in a dole ofice, they dont pay a penny into the system, so they cant claim anything

Easygirl,

You’re not in Fife by any chance – as I know an identical story?

…..about the JCB

Shame the topries removed the council responsibilities to proivide sites eh

I’ll accept that a lot of councils do provide them, but why should they provide sites to people? Especially if they stay for a long time.

If I wish to stay somewhere I get my money out and pay the market rate for the privilege. I’m not sure how much the council charge the travellers.

try sitting in a 80 year old widows house who has been conned out of £20k for gardening work that has never been carried out, and tell me they are quaint romany folk who wander the country picking mushrooms and singing round a campfire

no im in bolton, and its not a tale, i was there, it really happened
1994

It also happened in Fife last year.

There is nothing wrong with Travellers. They always leave where ever they have stayed exactly how they’ve found it. No old pallets, piles of rubbish or rubble. No sir, nothing.

JY – You know that Chinese proverb ‘My enemies enemy is my friend’? Guess what? Its horse-shit!!!

Ask the US State Dept.

People are coming up with their own real world examples of the traveling community, whereas you appear to be going LA-LA-LA NOT LISTENING. They’re all as honest as the day is long, when this is patently not the case

In the example I touched on earlier, a couple of the travellers came into our local and had a couple of pints. It was a sunday afternoon. They got no grief off the regulars (despite them trying to turn the close surroundings into an open sewer) and the landlord is a great bloke (I ride with him regularly), chats to them at the bar. After they’ve left, he notices splinters on the floor. Turns out all the window locks had been jimmeyed off at the back, from the inside obviously

In preparation for a return visit later on, after last orders?
Or nothing to do with them? Just purely coincidence? It was probably one of the regulars. Might even have been me. Who knows. Its a mystery, and no mistake

Is it time for the pitchforks yet?

Been trying to avoid getting involved with this one as I spent a good while working with Travellers. But hey I couldn’t not!
The race thing– Romany Travellers are descended from groups of nomads who made their way from India over many centuries arriving in Europe c12th century, to Britain in the 16th, 17th c. So yes they don’t usually look very Indian but they have intermarried for about 5 centuries. They did have their own language which in the UK remains in the form of slang and cant but is still spoken by Romanies abroad.
Now the social part, obviously I worked with the bottom end of traveller Society as the better off ones sorted themselves out, rather like our own dear society. However, 100% of the males over 14 that I knew had a criminal record. Some of them were nice people and yes I would trust them personally but perhaps not in a business capacity.
The worst local family were said to be the biggest criminals in the area by the police but they terrified all the other Travellers too.
So , yes lots of bad hats but lots of normal people.
[If you live on a site, you have to pay council tax]

JY–

I cannot be arsed juts doing the polar opposite of your view…

Denying your raison d’etre by any chance? 😉

Go on chap, it’s always good for a giggle 😀

Junkyard

I live in accrington which is pretty near to lee quarry and we have loads of sites purpose built for travellers so they have no excuse in east lancashire.

Romany Travellers are descended from groups of nomads who made their way from India over many centuries arriving in Europe c12th century, to Britain in the 16th, 17th c. So yes they don’t usually look very Indian but they have intermarried for about 5 centuries.

How does that explain the pseudo-Irish accent, then?

Is it the case that there are 2 distinct ‘groups’ of people who just happened to both live(d) in caravans?

Irish travelling workers and Romany people?
If you have to go back a very long way and there was actually a lot of inter-marrying then the argument for a distinct race is not strong though.

Does only one of these groups have the problems described in this thread?

I wouldn’t have thought there was that much inter-marrying as I can’t imagine that many of the wider population would want to join the travelling community.

junkyard
you wont meet atraveler in a dole ofice, they dont pay a penny into the system, so they cant claim anything

Point spectacularly missed..You need to be born here to be able to access Dole { i have simplified this point massively] but it was rather the broader point that of course a police officer does not know law abiding folk and only meets crimnals… I figured my pioint was pretty explicit

try sitting in a 80 year old widows house who has been conned out of £20k for gardening work that has never been carried out,

Thank gods we house dwelling folk never commit fraud and you have never been to a fraud by anyone who lived in a house.. I am not defending this but many folks commit crime.

whereas you appear to be going LA-LA-LA NOT LISTENING. They’re all as honest as the day is long, when this is patently not the case

Sorry yes a traveller did something bad once somewhere so they are all **** scum.
The power of your argument and the force of your hysteria logic convinced me
Yes binners some travellers are bad people and some are not.
Some folk think they are all bad and think i live in lala land when i question their views. I think UKIP do this when you are not terrified of Europe and other groups re Immigration and islamification. |Please could argue your point rather than tell me what I am doing please via a childish charicature

I live in Chorley so i am lancashire based

All the sites are settled and movers cant /dont wish to settle. There ae no sites for travling travellers as a rule. There are houses in accy so no reason to be homeless

I dont think this argument will go anywhere I really am out – and not just because I am hideoulsy outnumbered.

My most recent experience of travellers; They pitched up on the carpark opposite where I used to work on an industrial estate on the M5 corridor, two episodes of random blokes wandering around INSIDE our unit, few days later they dissapeared, found out a few days later that the empty factory unit opposite had got stripped of all its copper wiring and plumbing. But I’m sure it was a coincidence.

Thank gods we house dwelling folk never commit fraud and you have never been to a fraud by anyone who lived in a house.. I am not defending this but many folks commit crime.

I think the main difference is that travellers can just dissapear. No records of who is where, makes it very easy to get away with stuff, from tax dodging to fraud to large scale theft. It is a tough life on the road I imagine, so there must be good reason to carry on; I doubt high ideals comes top of the list of advantages…

So…. everyone who doesn’t openly welcome travellers, and suspects they’re a bit dodgy, or who finds islamic extremest preachers not the best people to be embracing, is now a card-carrying, Mail-reading UKIP or BNP supporter? Fantastic logic there fella.

I refer you to the Chinese proverb I mentioned earlier.

that of course a police officer does not know law abiding folk and only meets crimnals

they do know law abiding folk. They are often called victims.

So……… what tyres for caravans, then?

So……… what tyres for caravans, then?

Balding, perished ones usually! 😆

it’s a self fulfilling prophesy really..
we hate the gyppos (who’s ancestors have been sharing this green and pleasant land with us for as long as we’ve been here)

in fact, hating the gyppos is a fairly new thing..

anyway, we hate them, they get persecuted and as a result they learn to objectify us, then they treat us with the respect that we treat them and exploit us and rob us.. and so we hate them.. round and round endlessly

there was a time when nomadic people and settled folk had a fairly amicable and symbiotic relationship

I think some people confuse the Romany Gypsies with the Irish tinkers, the tinkers or gyppos as they are known are the one’s which will steal everything that isn’t nailed down, and if it is go home to get a claw hammer.

Anyone spot any slaves at this particular camp?

We deal with various Traveller groups across England.

Some are good, some are not.

If there are any welfare issues they’ll be there for as long as they need.

That’s the hedgehog population taking a hit