Viewing 35 posts - 1 through 35 (of 35 total)
  • Leather non goretex hiking boots.
  • joshvegas
    Free Member

    I really don’t get on with goretex boots. I will die on this hill… Leather boots are far superior. And I will also die on a sub peak… Boots are much better than approach shoes for all walking. For me obviously, no issue with the concepts.

    My current pair of boots are a pair of altberg defenders. And despite them being high heavy and clunky they are bloody comfy and I  pick them in all conditions bar scramble type hill walks over my salewa’s which are now coming away at the sole. The salewas will probably get a resole. But before I replace the defenders is there anything a bit more refined that isn’t going to mae my credit card balance unhappy? Preferably a shorter boot. But the main criteria is absolutely no sweat and stench inducing unnecessary lining.

    Spin
    Free Member

    Not cheap but Scarpa SL are excellent.

    deft
    Free Member

    Surprisingly difficult to find these days in the usual shops, Scarpa used to make a non-goretex version of their Delta boot but that’s now been discontinued. Altberg make some shorter boots but chances of finding anywhere to try them on are slim.

    RustyNissanPrairie
    Full Member

    Meindl do a non goretex – but I can’t remember what it’s called.

    timba
    Free Member

    Hi-tec make a DoE recommended boot for not many £, comfy too

    Euro trek Lite WP

    Kramer
    Free Member

    I’ve got some Zamberlains I’ve had for 15 years. Very comfortable and very hard wearing. If the soles ever wear out, I can get them replaced.

    riklegge
    Full Member

    I’m pretty sure Meindl Borneo are leather lined, and the Hanwag Peru always used to be.

    wbo
    Free Member

    You should Kramers as it’s an obvious stealth ad

    bedmaker
    Full Member

    Meindl Bernina 2. As a bonus they are the comfort fit last so closer to a foot shape than most. I love mine.
    I’m another who laments the tiny choice of leather boots without a superfluous plastic liner.

    MadBillMcMad
    Full Member

    Highly recommend altberg. Bonus, made in Yorkshire.

    Can’t reccomend ‘warm and dry’ in Whalley high enough. There is no charge for the fitting service, second to none. Where ever you are in the country, book a slot, come and stay there if you need, the countryside is awesome as well.

    Home

    ElShalimo
    Full Member

    Altberg walking boots are Sympatex lined

    If you’re near Richmond they have a factory shop.

    kormoran
    Free Member

    Yes meindl do an unlined boot, I’d love a pair but money dictates. I have just had my older meindls resoled by meindl via the distributor. Excellent value and they look like new

    b33k34
    Full Member

    Google shows the Borneo is indeed leather lined.

    Meindl Borneo Men 2 MFS Walking Boot

    I’ve been intrigued by https://www.treksta.co.uk/collections/boots/products/winchester-6-boa-gtx Claim to be ‘foot shaped’ last, and boa seems a great idea for hiking boots rather than wet muddy laces.

    It’s always puzzled me GoreTex getting put into leather boots – did it just become standard because one manufacturer did it and the rest were losing out on the ‘features list’ on the shelf? or because fabric boots had it so leather looked ‘less waterproof’?  Goretex approach shoes are great, but the lining always fails.  The lining failed quickly on the nylon hiking boots I had years ago (as on shoes I think it generally fails quickly where the toe bends.  less of an issue on leather boots as they don’t tend to crease in quite the same way.  But surely leather boots just need to be seam sealed and they’d be effectively waterproof and more breathable than with a membrane added?

    scruff
    Free Member

    Ive looked at Army desert boots a few times. Quite a few if them are insulated though for sone reason, and also use the term Tactical / airsoft in the uses.

    db
    Full Member

    Depends what you want. I have a pair of Rogue RB-2 Light Trail Boots which are very basic leather boots. Take a bit of breaking in and are not waterproof but are sturdy and haven’t broken yet. Size is generous.

    Saccades
    Free Member

    Anatom Q2 (or Q3), lovely boots.

    Were on sports pursuit not that long ago.

    I’m enjoying leather GTX boots at the mo though.

    13thfloormonk
    Full Member

    Altberg make some shorter boots but chances of finding anywhere to try them on are slim.

    Craigdon Mountain Sports stocked them last I checked, and bizarrely I found and purchased a pair in Grieves Sports in Glasgow city centre.

    They’re lined though, Altberg admitted to me that market forces more or less onliged them to add a liner.

    I don’t think anything will be more robust or waterproof than the Tethera, almost one piece from cuff to welt.

    rone
    Full Member

    I’ve got some Zamberlains I’ve had for 15 years. Very comfortable and very hard wearing. If the soles ever wear out, I can get them replaced.

    Similar here.

    jp-t853
    Full Member

    Grisport Peaklanders are often on offer. Really comfy and indestructible

    EDIT: not sure if I read the OP properly 😁

    ElShalimo
    Full Member

    The core range of Altberg boots are available in 5 width fittings and half sizes from tiny to yeti

    Their other boots are built on  A forme or G forme lasts. The factory shop is certainly worth a visit as  they’ll fit you

    On the liner Vs non-liner issue  – Aku do lots of their boots with both versions but you have to go to a good dealer/shop to get fitted

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    ’ve been intrigued by https://www.treksta.co.uk/collections/boots/products/winchester-6-boa-gtx Claim to be ‘foot shaped’ last,

    I’ve tried a Treksta boot, though not that one, it was ridiculously high volume, designed for elephants or yetis or something. More volume/width than the early US-market KEEN shoes/boots which is saying something.

    Meindl have pretty much always done leather without Gore-Tex options. The Borneo’s a classic leather, with leather lining boot. Expensive, but really good boots. Similarly Hanwag – also German – has a few non-Gore boots. The Tatra I think, has Gore-Tex and non-Gore versions and there’s a yak leather boot called the Lhasa. Again really good boots, but like Meindl, not cheap.

    I think the problem is that consumers tend to ask for waterproof walking boots, so brands have gradually added waterproof and ‘breathable’ liners to everything.

    mattsccm
    Free Member

    Thought about used ones? Traditional stuff from ebay? Resoles are much easier without the silly squishy midsole.

    My current pair of boots are a pair of altberg defenders.

    I swear by Altberg. Have you considered any of the tabbing range? I have a pair of the Sneaker Microlites, absolutely rinsed the arse off them during service, they’ve had a resole and few small repairs by Altberg but still going strong.

    Another good lightweight pair are the Jungle Microlight.

    Waderider
    Free Member

    I’ve been through the mill with trying multiple brands of membrane boots with limited satisfaction. I’ve been running Meindle Tonale GTXs for a few years, maybe four pairs in a row, and none of them have been anything approaching waterproof. Same for all the lined boots before them. Worse, when they get really wet they take ages to dry out. And that’s for lined boots near the top of the market.

    I use Scarpa SL for cold weather over the last year or so. They are excellent and are truly waterproof – but weigh alot on account of the thick leather. I’d love a lighter pair of unlined straight leather boots but haven’t identified them. I’m absolutely willing to make the effort of keeping boots well treated with HS12 cream or whatever.

    I think the walking boot marketplace is flooded with lined boots that don’t actually deliver on the hill, certainly not beyond 20 hard walks.

    mattsccm
    Free Member
    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Daughter and I are both using HanWeg boots at the moment. They were on sale, and are lovely

    CountZero
    Full Member

    I’ve got a pair of Zamberlain all-leather boots I’ve had literally for decades, but I haven’t worn them for years. I must get them out and give them a good waxing and start wearing them again, they were excellent and I do remember them being pretty comfortable. With a pair of M&S thick boot socks they should work well for the incessantly wet weather at the moment!

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

     But surely leather boots just need to be seam sealed and they’d be effectively waterproof and more breathable than with a membrane added?

    I suspect:

    1. This is easier said than done, a bit like suggesting seam-sealing packs, but more complicated because you’d need a tape or flexible adhesive that would reliably adhere to leather and proof the seam for the life of the boot, which could be a decade or more. That notwithstanding, a lot of top quality leather walking boots, the traditional ones, use one-piece uppers to minimise the number of seams and that’s probably why that sort of technology doesn’t exist, at least at a mass production level.

    2. As soon as you ‘proof’ leather, you also compromise its breathability – dubbin, wax etc aren’t exactly ‘breathable’ and tannery-applied water-resistant treatments only last so long and are resistant rather than proof ime. I suspect what’s actually happening is that the surface of ‘proofed’ leather is further from the foot, so the structure of the leather can absorb some water vapour/sweat.

    The way Gore-Tex lined boots work is that the Gore-Tex is a floating liner inside the boot, the fabric bit that sits closest to your foot, then there’s a (potential) gap, then the leather or fabric upper. That means there’s a potentially sweaty ‘breathable’ fabric layer next to your foot, which works sort of okay in dry, cool conditions, but once the boot gets properly wet – hello UK – water can soak into the upper and then pool between the outer of the boot and the sock liner, which in turn stops breathing.

    So your foot tends to get wet either from the inside or – if the membrane fails, often what happens is that the upper cracks, dries, forms sharp edges and punctures it at a flex point – water can get in from the outside. Gore-Tex boots also take ages to dry, presumably because that moisture can collect within the structure of the boot and, presumably, tries to migrate inwards across the membrane, but that’s just a guess.

    One reasonably effective solution is what was OutDry – the stuff Columbia uses for its OurDry Extreme bin-man chic waterproof jackets, where the waterproof PU membrane is bonded directly to the inside of the footwear outer, so further from the foot, but also eliminating the gap between the leather/fabric upper and the waterproof layer. Ime it dries fast and also, to an extent, breathes better.

    Columbia uses it for some of its footwear, but Scarpa has/had a boot called the Marmolada, which was a lightweight mountain walking/scrambling boot, but has evolved, I think, into the Marmolada Pro, which is a bit more technical, which also uses OutDry, now rebranded as H-Dry, but the same thing. They use it for the Charmoz HD as well, which is a full-on, B2 technical mountaineering boot and a really good one. I’ve used both and for me it’s a superior technology for real world walking/mountaineering.

    Anyway, that’s a better solution to proofing boots ime than Gore-Tex, but the consumer’s default choice is Gore because, marketing / brand recognition. Most big footwear brands are either pretty much exclusively Gore-Tex or sometimes also have their own similar technology, eg: KEEN.DRY or whatever it’s called.

    Fwiw, I think the essence of traditional leather boots is that you sacrifice some outright waterproofing performance in favour of improved comfort the rest of the time plus you also have the option, using aftermarket waterproofing treatments, of increasing water resistance to some extent, albeit at the expense of some breathability/comfort. I think one of the main issues with Gore-Tex is simply that the proofing ellement sits to close to the foot, so there’s very little buffer.

    Little known stuff: human skin has no receptor that senses ‘wetness’, when you feel wet, you’re actually feeling cold and maybe some sort of level of friction change associated with wet fabrics, which is why you can sometimes take off a pair of boots that feels ‘wet’ and find that they’re actually dry inside.

    Sorry for the extended meanderings… I guess the summary is that seam sealing leather is easier said than done, Gore-Tex liners have inherent issues and OutDry/H-Dry works a bit better.

    joshvegas
    Free Member

    Fwiw, I think the essence of traditional leather boots is that you sacrifice some outright waterproofing performance in favour of improved comfort the rest of

    Except. The most waterproof non Welly boots I have had have always been leather. And that includes so quite cheap old school British army combat boots. All my goretex boots have leaked, as in feeling the first pinprick of water disperse into my sock and create permabog.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    Except. The most waterproof non Welly boots I have had have always been leather. And that includes so quite cheap old school British army combat boots. All my goretex boots have leaked, as in feeling the first pinprick of water disperse into my sock and create permabog.

    I get that. If you look at the way Gore-Tex boots are constructed, they’re technically waterproof in the sense that water shouldn’t reach your foot, but because the waterproof layer is right on the inside, the outers can become saturated, the liner stops breathing, your feet get wet from condensation – I used to know how much water sweaty feet produced over 24 hours, can’t remember now, but it was a significant amount.

    Also, as you say, if the membrane puncture – debris, cracked uppers, mistaken for a voodoo doll etc – it will leak at that point, And once they do leak/get condensation, they dry incredibly slowly. They don’t, ime – and I’ve used/tested a truck-load of Gore-Tex footwear – all leak immediately, but mostly they do eventually.

    I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just pointing out that making a full leather boot absolutely waterproof will also compromise breathability a little. OutDry’s a pretty good halfway house because it side-steps some of the thing that makes the Gore-Tex liner tech a bit rubbish.

    boblo
    Free Member
    mattsccm

    Free Member

    Aaah, they were the dogs dangles when I started in the early 80’s. I think people broke their feet in rather than vice versa. Then along came Koflach etc and the rest is history. No more full shank mountaineering boots. A reasonably well known Sheffield based mountaineer (Don Robinson) brought a pair of high altitude leather double boots amongst his other gear to a school talk in the 70’s – he was married to one of the teachers. I was enthralled and they were probably as heavy as me! Sadly he went missing on that trip and didn’t come back 😔

    b33k34
    Full Member

    @badlywireddog

    I’ve tried a Treksta boot, though not that one, it was ridiculously high volume, designed for elephants or yetis or something. More volume/width than the early US-market KEEN shoes/boots which is saying something.

    interesting.  I had some early keen approach shoes, and like you say, too big.

    Re the liner post – interesting.  Minimising seams was my obvious first step.

    often what happens is that the upper cracks, dries, forms sharp edges and punctures it at a flex point

    or once, the boots/shoes are saturated theres enough friction between the layers that the liner fails quickly.  Much more so (and much worse results) than a small hole in a jacket because in wet conditions your boots are often immersed.

    Little known stuff: human skin has no receptor that senses ‘wetness’, when you feel wet, you’re actually feeling cold and maybe some sort of level of friction change associated with wet fabrics,

    TIL.  One of the reasons I like Woolie Boolies/WoolieAters so much is that I can rarely tell if they’re going to be dry or sodden when I take them off.  Maybe other wool socks are the same, but they really work for me both summer and winter.

    chakaping
    Free Member

    Personally, I get on fine with Gore Tex (or other membrane-lined) boots, so long as they have a leather-ish face material.

    E.g. my Berghaus Hillwalker 2 boots have a suede outer and have been absolutely superb for everyday use. Ditto my older (more sturdy) Zamberlans with a leather outer.

    Not a fan of softer material outers on boots generally, as mentioned they absorb more water and always seem to fail sooner for me (though I’ve mostly had approach shoes in this style).

    I just wear the Hillwalkers most of the time I’d usually use an approach shoe now.

    Sui
    Free Member

    If you dont want waterproof – then the Lowa Desert Elite boots are wonderful after a little breaking in.  They did me well in hot sandy places.  My “UK” boot was the Lowa Combat GTX which i still have, though the sole has finally fallen off after 18 years -debating on whether i get that replaced or not, because although they are uber comfy and keep water out, as soon as they get wet they are crap at drying.  I always debated about using a non lined dessie boot in the UK and just use seal skins etc, but then when not crawling through ditches and just patrolling it was nice to keep the feet dry without silly socks.  A number of us, when it was proper poop weather reverted to jungle boots as these dried very quickly.

    joshvegas
    Free Member

      I always debated about using a non lined dessie boot in the UK and just use seal skins etc, but then when not crawling through ditches and just patrolling it was nice to keep the feet dry without silly socks.

    This essentially. The best boots I ever had for that were an old pair of cadet boots. The older more tapered combat boot. No padding, just leather all the way up. Could go as deep as the top of the boot and stand and come out dry. But in all other regards they were basic as anything.

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