LBS couldn't fit crown race..

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  • LBS couldn't fit crown race..
  • montarius
    Member

    I would assume the width lost would be made back from the extra width in the steerer. (Assuming it didn’t fit as the steerer was slightly wider at the base for some reason).

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    possibly, or you could end up with a gap larger than the width of metal removed and thus a larger diameter than required?

    Premier Icon ir_bandito
    Subscriber

    or you could end up with a gap larger than the width of metal removed and thus a larger diameter than required

    In which case the lower bearing race will push it back together.

    If I get this right:

    they haven’t used a head tube reamer
    they haven’t used a crown race seat cutter

    and what you’ve paid* for is an amateur** job.

    * or maybe you haven’t paid yet
    ** I should know, I am an amateur.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    In which case the lower bearing race will push it back together.

    but not if the crown on the fork is slightly oversized and this is what was stopping the thing fitting properly in the first place?

    montarius
    Member

    mrmonkfinger – I have paid. It was £15 for the headset and crown to be “fitted”. That included a spare spacer so I thought that was reasonable (until I started this thread..)

    Being an amateur mechanic, I didn’t know what half of these tools were until I opened this thread!

    The LBS has offered to file the crown race down to try get it on snug but advised I should try a few rides to bed it in naturally. If that doesnt work, they will take another look at it.

    robj20
    Member

    They sound a bit pants for an LBS. mine charged £5 for the same and did a proper job even facing both the head tube top and bottom and the crown.

    I now do it myself with a hammer and block of wood, and use Hope split crown races.

    creamegg
    Member

    This is why I never take my bike to a LBS for any work. Why pay someone to bodge it when you can bodge it yourself?

    bencooper
    Member

    The LBS has offered to file the crown race down to try get it on snug

    A file should not go anywhere near any part of the thing. It needs a proper crown seat cutter used on the fork, then the crown race will fit properly.

    montarius
    Member

    Its a bit annoying really as I built the whole bike myself apart from the headset which I thought I would leave to the “professionals” as I didn’t have a headset press or facing tool.

    This is actually the first time I have used a LBS for any of my bikes..

    The LBS has offered to file the crown race down to try get it on snug

    😯
    Run away. Do not use this workshop again. This person does not understand how press fits work and should not be allowed to work on your bike.
    If you need to change the diameter of the seat on the fork, it needs to be done with a proper tool for the job (this is not a file BTW), otherwise the result will not be round and the crown race will not fit properly, leading to it starting to move and damaging your fork.
    And if they couldn’t even figure out that you can tap the race into place by means of a few minutes very careful work using a hammer and a drift, working on one side then the opposite and carefully tapping it down, they don’t know enough to be charging for their services.

    montarius
    Member

    ok, thanks for the heads up. Will take it to a different LBS if it doesn’t seat itself.

    brakes
    Member

    using a hammer and a drift, working on one side then the opposite and carefully tapping it down

    that’s how I do it. you need to be careful with some crown races that have a seal in them (Cane Creek for example) as you can squish them, but even that’s possible with care.

    hammyuk
    Member

    Instead of boiling water use a decent heat gun or blow lamp – 20s is all it takes and the race will drop straight down 😉

    brakes
    Member

    you’ll need a special tool to pick up the hot race though.
    Park do one, part number PCRHT-19.

    montarius
    Member

    Hmmm what pipe tube width would I need if I wanted to try the hot water bodge?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    bencooper – Member

    A file should not go anywhere near any part of the thing. It needs a proper crown seat cutter used on the fork, then the crown race will fit properly.

    Unless it’s the headset “race” which is out of spec- which seems perfectly likely, since it’s a used fork that’s had a headset on it before, no?

    then checking it with a crown cutter would take nothing off it. in which case yes, the problem would likely be the crown race itself. in which case this needs replacing, not filing.

    bellefied
    Member

    montarius – Member

    ok, thanks for the heads up. Will take it to a different LBS if it doesn’t seat itself.

    hopefully the crown race isn’t damaged (and more importantly the headset) so think of it not as losing £15 but that its cost you £15 to find out how bad this LBS is

    montarius
    Member

    Assuming a lot of force has been used to get the crown race into its current place, what would be the easiest way of removing it? (so that I can heat it).

    bellefied
    Member

    montarius – Member

    Assuming a lot of force has been used to get the crown race into its current place, what would be the easiest way of removing it? (so that I can heat it). you could use a flat head screw driver and a tiny hammer to gradually work it back up the steering tube (always working around it and tapping the lowest part) until its loose enough to slide off – although if you are doing that you may as well try to do it the other way to try to seat it properly?

    Or take it to another LBS and ask them to do it for you? You could spend another £15 to find out if they are rubbish too 😀

    Pierre
    Member

    This sounds fishy. Reaming and facing a headtube is simple if you have the right tool. Preparing a fork crown is simple if you have the right tool. Fitting a crown race to a fork crown is simple if you have the right tool and the race and fork are the right diameter. Many of those tools aren’t cheap but a half-decent LBS should have them.

    Is it a 1.5″ crown? A 1.125″ (1 1/8″) crown race may fit down a tapered steerer just far enough to reassemble a headset, but it will never “seat itself” properly! Or perhaps the LBS doesn’t have more modern sized tools yet…

    If you’re half an hour north-east of Croydon, give me a shout. I’m in SE15 and I’ll sort it out for you free of charge, providing everything’s the right size. Email in profile.

    Pierre
    Member

    Btw, thing to get the old crown race off:

    …big heavy tool to do a very simple job, properly.

    😉

    IanW
    Member

    Can’t even post in right thread … Doh!

    Premier Icon 2unfit2ride
    Subscriber

    I wouldn’t be blaming the LBS yet, if you read my THREAD HERE you will see I had a not to dissimilar problem, the forks got sent back, were looked at & sent back to my LBS with a crownrace fitted & a note telling them how to fit a headset 😯
    So I took my headset to the LBS & it clearly didn’t fit (it has been on many a fork, but never a Fusion fork), but strangely some others do. To my mind some manufactures build in some “tolerance” into their product to make up for the shortcomings of theirs & others products. As I said in my thread the steerer was quite a bit bigger then it should of been, my solution was to buy a new headset, something to my mind I shouldn’t of had to do!

    PS, this is the first time I have heard of a crown cutting tool.

    Cheers.

    montarius
    Member

    Just had a closer inspection of the work done. Looks very messy but as you can see its no quite flush.



    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Err – isn’t that just the upraised lip of the race you’re seeing. Looks to me like the centre portion is resting on the crown.

    Mind you, it also looks like someone has been filing away at the steerer….

    renton
    Member

    I wouldnt be riding them forks looking at the steerer just above the crown race !!

    montarius
    Member

    Yes, he had to file the steerer slightly to get it straight.

    Im clueless as to if that’s seated properly or not as this is new territory to me so you tell me. Is the lip meant to be that raised?

    Premier Icon scotroutes
    Subscriber

    Monty wrote:

    Yes, he had to file the steerer slightly to get it straight.
    Im clueless as to if that’s seated properly or not as this is new territory to me so you tell me. Is the lip meant to be that raised?

    Looks fine to me (from those photos). However there is a big groove above the race that seems to go right round the steerer. Was that caused by a previous race/headset?

    montarius
    Member

    I think those marks are from the old crown race which were fairly large and a nightmare to remove (apparently). Im not sure I would call them un-rideable..

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    That groove must have taken a fair percentage of the steerer away and I’d think weakened it a bit….

    STATO
    Member

    Pretty sure that ‘groove’ is actually just the transition from 1-1/8 to whatever diameter it is that the race fits on. Just more noticeable as the guy has cleaned off the surface at that area.

    As others say, its fitted flush, just the lip looks higher, wont move from there.

    For a new crown race, looks like its had the living crap beaten out of it.The lip isn’t straight for starters. I’d be asking for a new race from them but would be going elsewhere to fit it. If you are near Newbury I have a crown race tool to fit it.

    montarius
    Member

    STATO, just had another look, you’re right. There isnt actually a groove, it appears that the diameter gets wider towards the bottom and thats the transition to the wider area.

    Thanks for the offer Thrustyjust, going to leave it as is for now and see how I get on. There is a lot of grease on it which is what makes it look a bit funny.

    Premier Icon Jon Taylor
    Subscriber

    To my mind some manufactures build in some “tolerance” into their product to make up for the shortcomings of theirs & others products.

    Tolerancing is an integral part of engineering and manufacturing. Just remember – nothing is perfect. What is a good enough tolerance? +/- 1 mm? +/- 0.1 mm? +/- 0.01 mm??

    That press-fit between the crown race and the steerer is subject to the sizes of each component falling within a specified range. If you need to make the size more accurate – that will cost more for better machines and to check/QA the results will cost more in tools and man-power.

    And the consumer wants things cheap…

    bencooper
    Member

    Yes, he had to file the steerer slightly to get it straight.

    Not good. What did he mean by “straight”? If the diameter of the steerer was oversized (unlikely on a used fork, but you never know) then the only correct fix is a crown race cutter.

    In the last pic it does look like it’s seated home, though.

    taxi25
    Member

    Just get the crown race removed in one piece. Cut through it with a hacksaw push it back on the steererr with your fingers, job done. No more grief nor more hassle, get on with ridding your bike.

    bencooper
    Member

    Yeah, because if there’s one thing that headset needs, it’s even more metal removed where it shouldn’t be 😀

    JRTG
    Member

    Not uncommon, took my nice fancy carbon forks to a local shop as I didn’t have a 1.5 race tool and 1 hour and three people later they gave up. Did it myself in 10 secons with some plastic drain pipe, pfft.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    the actual fit of the crown race doesn’t look too bad – as above, the chamfer at the bottom accounts for it no looking flush at the outside.

    They do seem to have had a right go at the steerer though – was it previously damaged?

    😯

    I don’t think I’d go back to that shop.

    As bencooper rightly points out, there is a correct tool or three for this job. A file is not one of them.

    brakes
    Member

    pah, looks fine to me. just ride it, having first checked your dental cover…

    I thought you said it wasn’t seated? That looks seated to me. Why the chuff they’ve taken to it with a file is anyone guess. And I’m hoping its grease all over the race because otherwise its knackered. But as for being seated (?) correctly. Looks fine to me.

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