Euro – Member
druidh, surely taking advantage of enterprise zones that exist/existed throughout the UK is good business.

Absolutely!! It’s just not a route which is available to all.

One hundred! 😛 ish

If someone asks for a discount and justifies it I’ll do what I can/my boss will alloy. I’m not asleep to the fact that folk can shop online, I’ve done so myself.

I agree most profit should be made in the workshop, I don’t know our figures tho.

Richie the silverfish, aren’t you an importer?

Don’t the importers/suppliers/distributors have to take some blame for the plight of the undercut lbs – they’re the ones selling stock to the online retailers without seemingly caring what they then charge the consumer – they get paid regardless.

Don’t some brands have fixed prices whether online or shop, which must level the playing field?

Don’t the importers/suppliers/distributors have to take some blame for the plight of the undercut lbs – they’re the ones selling stock to the online retailers without seemingly caring what they then charge the consumer – they get paid regardless.
Don’t some brands have fixed prices whether online or shop, which must level the playing field?

Yeah, price fixing should be allowed 🙄

Recommended Retail Price – recommended by whom?

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again RRPs just leads to lazy retailing. Think how much you can/need to make on a sale and price accordingly . Simples!

Rule #58 has this covered…

Don’t the importers/suppliers/distributors have to take some blame for the plight of the undercut lbs – they’re the ones selling stock to the online retailers without seemingly caring what they then charge the consumer – they get paid regardless.

Quite often, and especially with OEM stuff, the online retailers get it without going through the official distributor. Most distributors aren’t daft – they know a retailer that’s still there next year is better than one that buys lots now, discounts it, then vanishes. Why do distributors have dealer networks? So there’s a network of local shops to sell stuff, and just as importantly sort out problems.

As soon as I started selling BionX electric kits, Zyro sent several people to me for repairs – even before I had my first stock of parts! I don’t mind in the slightest – that’s the deal of being a retailer – but it shows that distributors really want local shops to work with.

My LBS always says to tell them the cheapest I’ve found an item for (I only bother with the big stuff – frames, wheels forks, brakes) and they’ll usually match or better it. For the convenience of their service I usually add a bit onto whatever price I’ve found as it just seems fair to me.

Richie the silverfish, aren’t you an importer?

Yes.

Don’t the importers/suppliers/distributors have to take some blame for the plight of the undercut lbs – they’re the ones selling stock to the online retailers without seemingly caring what they then charge the consumer – they get paid regardless.

There’s no part of me telling you not to buy online. My point is that the opinion that any store who tries to sell you a brand new, perfectly good product at the retail price is ‘outrageous’ is, in itself, outrageous.
As a company we are very IBD centric, we offer a variety of schemes and initiatives that can only be effectively excecuted in person (demo programmes, etc) as we know of the huge benefit that good bike shops offer to the industry but we’d fools to ignore the fantastic job that the online boys also do.
As for not caring about the price they sell at – trust me, our network of IBDs across the country ensure that I care!

Don’t some brands have fixed prices whether online or shop, which must level the playing field?

No. This is called price fixing and is illegal.

TSY – your plan only works if you have staff and money floating around doing nothing else

Indeed Druidh… the money shouldn’t be an issue though, I’d hope that the biking industry still allows for shops to get credit terms from the distributors.

If the staff are too busy to sell stuff at a reduced margin (10% was illustrative as I don’t imagine that’s how low the general internet prices would drive it) then they don’t need the sale then that’s fine.

I don’t see it as the first step to the perpetual ‘closing down sale’ that someone mentioned. Just a way for the LBS to close in on some of the ‘big ticket’ items that they’ve lost to online sellers.

As I said… I don’t know how much business LBSs make out of selling such items on demand… from the general attitude on here I’d imagine not a lot.

Edited – due to dislike of banging head against brick wall.

Mr Agreeable – Member

I reckon that placing a notional value of £10 an hour on your time, you’re probably better off nipping to the nearest LBS and just plonking down the cash.

Unless you enjoy it, at which point it becomes a benefit rather than a cost.

the other issue with buying from a bike shop rather than online, is lack of choice.

I visited 4-5 different lbs over the course of a week looking for a pair of gloves to try on, i need xxl-xl gloves depending on make. Could i find them could i heck, but if i had i would have bought them (assuming price wasn’t ridiculous) as i had them in my hand.

Sometimes it’s just a hell of a lot easier to order online.

(TSY) Indeed Druidh… the money shouldn’t be an issue though, I’d hope that the biking industry still allows for shops to get credit terms from the distributors.

But money is a very big issue for smaller LBSs. Working off ever increasing ammounts of credit from your suppliers is what Woolworths did.

This morning I had a phone call asking if I stocked GoPro cameras. The caller was not rude but obviously frustrated that he had money to spend but no-one locally with the right product to part him from it. I had to explain to him that round here he was very much a rarity and if I chose to stock GoPro I’d probably still have most of that stock in a year’s time and struggle to get back what I paid for it.

But if a customer comes in and orders something from you that you don’t have in stock… they pay for it, you order it… cash in the till right? When do you pay the distributor for it?

I am not suggesting buying for stock. Not in anyway.

When do you pay the distributor for it?

That very much depends on the distributor but it’s really not uncommon for a strore to have pay up front.

That very much depends on the distributor but it’s really not uncommon for a strore to have pay up front.

Wow! Completely different business model to any industry I’ve worked in… almost suggests that the distributor doesn’t have faith in the LBS being in existance in a say 30 days (payment terms) time!

TSY – some of the suppliers themselves are small businesses and operate pro-forma to protect their cash flow because of size rather than a fear of a business not paying them.

yawn……this is getting as common as what tyre? are orange fives good?

im resigned to the fact that most of the folk on here are very switched onto online purchasing…if someone wants my help in the shop and theyre genuine ill give it but we do get an increasing number of customers who take the p*ss…like the chap who moaned i didnt have a barcode on an item so he could pricematch it on his iphone…i didnt have the speed of wit to reply with something sharp and cutting unfortunately as i was pretty shocked…

certain things we dont sell at all and we used to sell loads of…full face lids/pads/certain types of clothing i reckon has all gone to the online folk…so ill re-align what i stock and see if we can offer a great service/selection of kit to entice folk into a purchase… 😆

Pfft, I have to pay in advance for the bikes I import, often at least a month before they’re built. I’m basically financing the manufacturers.

your bikes are a little off the norm though ben! ive got a local guy who wants a hase…can i send him your way….hes suitably odd! 🙂

Aye, please – I like odd people 🙂

Ah well TBC… what an industry to be in! Hats off to you guys.

I’d be happy to pay a bit more, in advance, to see my money going through the till of a LBS. TBH I’ve never even asked if a shop would be willing to do it… I’ve just been surprised when a shop owner has said they don’t stock them, but could add it to their order so that I could collect it from them next week all for RRP, it’s like they think the ineternet doesn’t exist.

TSY – as TBC would confirm, it’s not unusual to tell a customer to order it themselves as they will get it cheaper and faster. Many distributors have minimum order values and it can be difficult to make that up with other random parts. Some will even charge for delivery. Plus – many don’t do next-day shipping to your LBS. throw in a weekend or Bank Holiday and timescales can start to look silly.

As we’ve covered in other threads, a proliferation of “standards” doesn’t help either. Think of something as simple as a stem, then a headset. And then consider how often these standards change. A small shop cannot hold enough variation to satisfy the informed/fussy customers

As we’ve covered in other threads, a proliferation of “standards” doesn’t help either. Think of something as simple as a stem, then a headset. And then consider how often these standards change. A small shop cannot hold enough variation to satisfy the informed/fussy customers

See also silly tyre sizes. 😉

as TBC would confirm, it’s not unusual to tell a customer to order it themselves as they will get it cheaper and faster.

Sounds like a damn fine bike shop. The sort of one I’d happy to sit out a week or two with waiting for the new trinket I want as long as it was mutually convenient for them and their ordering etc.

I’ll use a month’s credit with my larger suppliers for the consumables that I can reasonably predict selling (cables, chains, tyres etc) but the more specialist or niche suppliers that I might use on an occasional basis I’ll mainly pay proforma to keep the month end bills as even as I can.

The smaller a business is the more ‘hand to mouth’ the finances are and the more it hurts when you cock up and end up with stock that no-one wants.

I’d offer to price match, get the customer’s home address then pop them in the post. Then refuse any form of face to face contact only accepting email or phone enquiries, which I would then ignore.

Apologies for being thick Richiethesilverfish, but suppliers must be cutting good (better?) deals for the online shops than the local bike shops to enable the lower prices? It can’t all be down to lower overheads.

So whilst price fixing to the consumer is illegal, there is the ability for suppliers to support the LBS better by not cutting far better deals with online retailers.

Crc buy from shimano etc from madison at the same price as lbs’s (as long as they’re on premiere).

No. This is called price fixing and is illegal.

Tell that to Oakley. Or a lot of bike distributors. Seems that if anyone discounts the product they won’t be sold to again – sounds like price fixing to me…

Tell that to Oakley

Or BOSE.

I can’t believe crc buy at std Madison prices.

I can’t believe it’s not butter……..

Economies of scale… the more you buy the cheaper it gets.

Well that’s the way it works in other industries… otherwise if you’re big enough you cut out the middle man.

Then, if you can afford to… you take out the middle man

Price fixing?
Jungle/stiff……

CRC can buy retail gear at the same price but they don’t have the same overheads on some stuff. They also seem to get OEM which is at a different price and sell that as new too. Same as Merlin and the rest- They can’t sell that many of those hardtails!!

They don’t buy all their “Madison products” from Madison.
When they buy from Madison, they buy at Premier.

One of the other issues about RRP is that shops can get away with charging this due to lack of competition. For instance, have a look around your local area and you may see that there are few Specialized or Cannondale dealers. Those that exist will try to stop other shops in the area selling those brands.

I went into a Specialized shop to try on a helmet before buying online. But seeing as its a Spech helmet i’m buying I reckoned that was ok 8)

IIRC the Spesh concept stores are franchises, so just as bad as doing it in an lbs…