Laser Forums (the sailing ones), and I thought wheelsize debates were bad!
Can anyone explain what’s gone on? I’ve been out of the loop for a few (10) years after discovering bikes and was thinking of buying a boat again.
Does the whole LPE/ILCA/ISAF/PSA/Kirby thing actualy affect anything at a club level? Or is the whole class about to die on it’s arse as Laser can’t (legaly) build boats, and BK can’t call his Torches, Lasers.
One thread even implied new (official) sails were going to be hard to come by! Which was the reason I took up bikes in the first place, that £400+ was silly money for a low tech singlehanders sail! Although at least clubs seem a bit more accepting of ‘training’ sails than they were.Posted 4 years ago
I lost track of what’s going on many many months ago. All I know is that there are ongoing legal wrangles that mean the class may not exist at some point. It all sounds stupid which is also how I view Lasers (had to sail one for the first time in three years this summer and I’d forgotten how crap the sail and rudder are!).
BTW, the sails are way overpriced for what they are but what can you do?Posted 4 years ago
Ok, I know whats happened.
Kirby holds the rights, UKLA and assoc bodies around the world kicked up a stink about the reg/license fees Kirby charges stating that it was too expensive yadda yadda.. hence no new builds. Then it got messy and someone mentioned calling them a stupid name for the boat and all hells broken loose.
At HISC (my club) we are still calling them Lasers, still expect folks to abide by the International Rules around measurments (sails included) because those rules are still in place. If you want to sail with a non regulated sail you can but must make the choice of using that all season and let our Racing Committee know you are doing such.
I know Rooster offer sails, cheeper than the regulated sail and we have two folks (out of a fleet of 44) using these. The sails are better built, look better quality material (which has an effect on speed) and seem more durable. I feel we will go down the route of accepting these “type” of sails in all our Club Racing and Open Meetings UNLESS we get a protest from an interested body using Std Sails..
UKLA sanctioned events still abide by the Std Sail arrangement and setup of the boat.
I can’t see this situation changing anytime soon until the point where there is a shortage of Std Sails and Boats, then they will come to a decision, as is it’s temporary.
I’m buying a Laser too BTW, it’ll be Std Sail, Std Build as I see the class reverting back to the original model base it was designed to be (and many regulations are already in place controlling the class)
Have fun, get wet, hike hard. 😆Posted 4 years ago
BTW, the sails are way overpriced for what they are but what can you do?
Buy them from any other sail loft for half the price? Then just not race in open meets? Same as refusing to pay harken prices for blocks.
I dont understand………every goddam thing you you just said
From what I understand the original designer owns the design (the kirby sailboat) but other companies own the rights to build a boat called a laser, which could be anything, but as its a one design it has to be kirby’s original design or nothing.
So theres an impossible situation where one cant build boats and the other cant call them lasers.
Theres a side issue that Australian (PSA) built boats are apparently better than the ‘Laser’ built ones elsewhere, and PSA are closely involved with kirby.
I get the impression kirby wants to democratise production so that anything built to the spec would be acceptable in the class, where Laser want to keep the existing tight control and their monopoly.
I like lasers, theyre not the easiest to sail, or the fastest, but its like mtb singlespeed or fixed gear track bikes, theyre fit for purpose, quick enough to be exciting and importantly cheep and closely matched. Unfortunately it seems laser are hijacing the original corinthian ethos as an excuse to maintain a monopoly.Posted 4 years ago
edit: bikebouy got there first with the details
I feel we will go down the route of accepting these “type” of sails in all our Club Racing and Open Meetings UNLESS we get a protest from an interested body using Std Sails..
My (cheepskate) oppinion is that they should be allowed, if it was to stop expensive sails being an advantage then the rules make sense, but when a £130 aftermarket sail is in danger of confering an advantage over a £450 OEM sail? Makes you wonder what could be made for £450 on the open market!Posted 4 years ago
I’d heard that menitoned.
Although I just used the same old mast, sail and original floppy boom for years withiout breaking one, just kept bending them back straight in the car park! Didn’t realise how slow my boat was though untill I crewed for a friend in a 6 hour race when I went from struggling to hold onto the back markers in mine the day before to mid pack in his!
Do hull’s get slower? I know they lose their stiffness, but do they actualy get slower? i.e. should a structuraly sound (flexy hull and side deck asside) hull with a new sail be equal to a new boat? Or does the flexing and other factors slow them down?Posted 4 years ago
Well I’ve been sailing Lasers since Ben was a Lad. There was talk of a Carbon top section back in 08/09 but it was deemed too expensive for folks and also they reckoned on a new sail to cope with the bendy top..
All this when a One Design ethos is the be all and end all of Lasers appeal. Also being an Olympic Class there really isn’t much that can be done to them without affecting the Whole World, and trying to keep costs of emerging Countires down to a reasonable amount.. So the Carbon Top went by the wayside of a number of small additions (longer tillers, Carbon Rudders/centerboards etc.)
The best thing IMO has been the adoption of the XD Pack back in 05/6 where more purchase and better blocks can be used, these make hacking on the Kicker a whole lot easier and that damn 4mtr outhaul.. sooo much more fun now you can actually sail the boat instead of fighting it.
You can still sail two up at any Championship if you want to, it’s still in the rules..
As far a boats going slower, they do get a bit damp and soak water if left amongst undergrowth, but again Steve at Rooster found an old 8number hull a few years back and stuck new bits on it but kept old rudder and centerboard and new sail and still flattened everyone on the curcuit, he sailed it at the Nats and won on it. Depends on the amount and seriousness of the cracks in the Gelcoat, anything around the Mastbase is wayyyyy bad, anything around the rudderstock too, but generally if you dry them out, polish up the hull so it’s flat and not bumpy it should be fine.
I keep mine in a garage during Jan/Feb/early Mar unless I’m dpoing the Chi Winter Series.
There was a sailmaker (name escapes me) who made a Kevlar Main for it but with the super bendy mast he couldn’t match the bend charactoristics with the super stiff kevlar, so he only managed to make a sail up with a kevlar leach but it looked bloody horrible and detracted from what really is a good looking simple boat whose only competition is the bloke sitting in the middle bit wiggling the stick about.
I love them, can you tell. I love the fact that I can sail anyone and everyone and feel like competition is between me and the other person without feeling like I’m in an arms war. I voted down any changes last time round (bar accepting the XD Pack) and I’d vote down again any further changes.
All this wrangle with Kirby will blow over, it’s detracting from the biggest class in the world and they know that.
I still miss the days racing amongst Ben,Steve,Bart,Paul all on the curcuits.. Bloody hard racing and masterclasses by all on them.
Bloody brilliant.Posted 4 years ago
anything around the Mastbase is wayyyyy bad
Mine had a crack round almost the circumfrance where it met the deck, stuck a bit of woven cloth and epoxy on it and sanded it untill the mast turned freely and it survived. IANABB (I Am Not A Boat Builder) and my oppinion on repairs should be treated with caution!
The only thing I remember getting through a lot of were tiller extensions for some reason.Posted 4 years ago
The usual place for them to break is where the bottom of the mast tube meets the hull inside the boat. Basically there’s a lump of ply with a blob of goo that the mast tube sits on when the hull and deck are put together. Proper cheap.Posted 4 years ago
I had one boat where the mast just fell over ripping the mast tube out of the deck when it became unglued from the hull.
anyone selling a cheap one?
Ebay? Depends what you define as cheep and what you want to use it for. For launching off a beach on holliday and mucking about in there are better boats, but a £200 boat from the 70’s with floppy decks and repairs everywhere will be fine. But for regular use then IMO you start to see good late 90’s boats on apoloduck for £800+. Just take someone allong who knows lasers and what to look for, springy decks and leaking mast steps, dagerboard slots or rudder pintles probably being the main things to look out for as they range from expensive repairs to irrepairable.Posted 4 years ago
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