I think we’ve already worked out that it’s pretty much impossible to staff any team with crew who have never ever been involved in doping in any way. It was just too endemic, too entrenched and the tentacles went right through, from riders all the way up to team managers.

Absolute nonsense, it may be impossible to get untainted folk with experience of particular roles. In that case though, if any credibility is to be expected you HAVE to just go with inexperienced but untainted folk and rebuild from scratch.

Sorry if this has been linked before but does Mark Cavendish really believe or understand what he has said in This interview

Which sports do you think are cleaner?

F1?
Moto GP?

The absolute latest

Armstrong taking mushrooms

shocking stuff

Woody, a similar situation from my youth to illustrate.

I was at one of them posh schools, innit. The school had a drug problem, nothing “seriuous”, and almost certainly in line with any other school of similar size. The headmaster wanted to deal with it, so he did. He found people. He expelled them. He made it very, very public.

Of course, there were then the headlines, “Rich toffs in drugs shockah!” and the school was tainted with that reputation for a while. Was the school dirtier than others? Hell no. It just actually did something about it!

I see cycling in the same light. It has a problem, as do many other sports. Cycling’s gone very public about it’s problem, and therefore gets far more than a fair share of negative press. Much like my school did, while other schools of similar type were just quietly expelling their drug busts.

Much like my school did, while other schools of similar type were just quietly expelling their drug busts.

In that case, I’ll compare my school to the UCI! The Head flatly refused to believe that nice posh children in his school could possibly be doing anything like that.

That all changed when a new Head came along.

Wellington, CrazyLegs? 😉

F1?
Moto GP?

Both require physical endurance that is enhanced by EPO, plus low body mass so clenbuterol type drugs would certainly help. During a race betablockers would help keep a driver calm under pressure.

Is either sport signed up to wada rules? do they have random in and out of season testing, the whereabouts system, biological passports?

It#s the naive belief that cycling is the bad boy in world sport, that is starting to irritate.

that can be

It’s the use of modal verbs to make a point just a teensy weensy bit more dramatic that does it for me. 😈

Berties name (or at least CONT) being written on blood bags in Puerto

I reckon they were probably Lance’s 😉

Flashy: not *that* posh!

Absolute nonsense, it may be impossible to get untainted folk with experience of particular roles. In that case though, if any credibility is to be expected you HAVE to just go with inexperienced but untainted folk and rebuild from scratch.

But who is teaching these inexperienced people? Dopers or ex dopers. And besides, you simply can’t run a pro cycling team with a bunch of people off the street. You don’t learn this stuff by reading a book, it comes from years and years of being in the thick of it, being a pro racer, ‘reading’ races.

While you’re rebuilding your team from scratch, you’re not winning anything, the sponsors walk away, and bang goes your team. That’s why the problem is so endemic and why it needs not some PR friendly “zero tolerance” bullshit (which always comes back to bite you on the arse) but a proper top-down clean out, “truth and amnesty”, reconciliation. Accept that people used to do that kind of thing. Rebuild the sport together through support, and a proper independent body. The UCI has for too long been in a position where it has to promote the sport, make it interesting and exciting while also policing it.

But who is teaching these inexperienced people? Dopers or ex dopers. And besides, you simply can’t run a pro cycling team with a bunch of people off the street. You don’t learn this stuff by reading a book, it comes from years and years of being in the thick of it, being a pro racer, ‘reading’ races.

From the outside that just sends the message, “OK, you doped, but we’ll still let you make a living from the sport, so doping is ok to get your fame, your reputation, your titles, even if you get caught, you’ve still got a career.” It also says, “we’re a team where dopers work, where dopers are rewarded, because although we could take non dopers and do less well, we must win at all costs”, and when you are willing to go that far, why would you not be doping today too?

There are plenty of clean former riders to choose from I’m sure but the question is do men who’ve had their best years in cycling stolen from them (dramatic phrase I know) really want to go back to the sport where dopers were accepted as the norm and clean riders were considered to be somehow less valuable (look at Bassons who was offered 5-10 times the salary if he doped).

As an aside, on the subject of riders supporting Armstrong, Marcel Kittel had this to say on twitter:

Well done that man. People like him, Greipel, Phinney are all reasons to feel positive about the future. There’s a wave of riders coming through that simply abhor the idea of doping.

I was surprissed by Contador given he is the current LA [ best and a doper] you would have thought he would have STFU- I took it as a sign their is still a problem if he can say that openly tbh

When an unrepentant doper comes out in support of another unrepentant doper and feels safe doing so, there’s a sign that something is wrong. Sadly, given he rides for Riis, the team is hardly going to stamp down on him either.

It’s quite revealing to see the few prominent names sticking up for Armstrong, when everyone else is trying to run away as quickly as possible. I think there will be a few squeaky bums wondering if they can still rely on omerta to keep things quiet, or whether someone is going to spill the beans on them as part of the current confessional tidal wave.
I think Sky are taking a tough road, but fair play to them. It’s another deterrent if doping could mean the end of your nice post race career in team support or management. They just need to be consistent, because they have flip flopped a wee bit on whether they will use people associated with doping or not.
It would be difficult, but not impossible to run a team with clean staff. Wiggins’ performance coach came from swimming, I believe, so you can look outside the traditional cycling world (of course you have to make sure you are not just getting dopers from a different sport!). As for sponsors leaving; that cuts both ways. Rabobank have taken a commercial decision that the current model is not a good deal, so failure to really clean up could hurt teams just as much as trying to be squeaky clean, in the current climate.

So we add BMC to the teams you have to be suspicious about.

I think there will be a few squeaky bums wondering if they can still rely on omerta to keep things quiet, or whether someone is going to spill the beans on them as part of the current confessional tidal wave.

Part of me wonders if that’s the key. By getting it out there that bans without positive tests are “wrong” you wonder if these riders are getting ready to have the whistle blown on them and getting the defence in early.

Good article here by Bradley McGee:
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/how-dopers-stole-the-best-years-of-my-career-20121026-28aif.html

It’s a good article but I can’t believe he’s talking about his team being one of the ones leading the way to a cleaner sport when it’s run by Riis and their lead rider is supporting Armstrong publicly. Doesn’t diminish his experiences and what he’s trying to do though, I just can’t help but wish he was doing it elsewhere.

I have one simple rule – no doping. It’s really not that difficult.

It is a team led by a doper both on and off the road
Riis is owner and manager Bertie the top man.

Shame though he seems genuine but he is in the wrong team to achieve that never mind rule three

3. Know the people around you. Be sure they will support you in success or failure and will never support unethical choices.

Just shows how close to Fubbar cycling actually is if he believes all that and then works for them

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2o5Rxc6F0&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]

No re-allocation of titles then.

The ASO already said as much so there was no chance the UCI could change that.

uci have announced no reallocation of titles, suspension of the paul kimmage case and an external investigation into themselves

oh and the operation puerto case is just around the corner – lets see if bertie can explain away blood bags mark ‘cont’ that were found in his fridge – quick blood / dna test should settle that…

uci have announced no reallocation of titles, suspension of the paul kimmage case and an external investigation into themselves

Do you know if suspension means it’s been binned or just put on hold until after the external investigation?

Edit: and the answer appears to be that it is on hold during the investigation but it isn’t clear whether or not it will be restarted – which is crap for Kimmage as he will just be left on hold for longer

Orff with their heads

on hold following the investigation, this link is expanding as its coming out, should be full story now:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-management-committee-will-not-reallocate-armstrongs-tours

Suspended pending the inquiry. Poor Paul, being dicked around for even longer.

Suspended pending the inquiry. Poor Paul, being dicked around for even longer.

Yep. A cynical person might think that they are trying to take the heat off themselves and sit it out while leaving pressure on Kimmage.

Yup. The momentum of the defence fund has been simply amazing this week. It went up something like ten thousand dollars yesterday.

that was due in no small part to LeMond I think. If the investigation is done properly (and a lot of people will be keeping their eyes on them) then Hes not got a problem – be interesting to read LeMonds file of evidence too!

Saw yesterday that the danish cycling fed effectively asked mcquaid to push off…

Just tweeted by Paul K:

Paul Kimmage ?@PaulKimmage
How do I feel? I feel like Maximus as he prepared for battle.

Paul Kimmage ?@PaulKimmage
“On my signal, unleash hell.”

Paul Kimmage ?@PaulKimmage
Hope to deliver that signal very soon.

🙂

Yup. The momentum of the defence fund has been simply amazing this week. It went up something like ten thousand dollars yesterday.

I thought it was 10 times that.

It’s a great indication that the fans want a clean sport, will be interesting to see how that money is now redirected (assuming the case is dropped) to do some good, wish I had chipped in, may yet do so if it looks like it will do some good.

i hope kimmage gets to keep it. I despise the way that big organisations can put individuals lives on hold by assigning a few lawyers to the case and getting on with their own business.

From his twitter feed: “This conflict with the UCI may seem like a game, and a game I’m enjoying, but the truth is that it’s destroying my life.”

I meant it increased by 10k yesterday. It’s up well over $80k total.

Just topped it up a tiny bit more with a second small contribution. It’s still important.

Only the UCI could describe waiting a bit before deciding whether to carry on suing Kimmage as ‘decisive action’.

I assume there’s no way the Kimmage case will go to court now

They need to decide how to spend the money – either donate to some CREDIBLE testing/enforcement programme if they can find one outside of USADA or share it out between deserving indiviuals like Kimmage, the 2 women who grassed-up Lance and I guess a few others, riders who’ve been forced out etc

I’d definitely still support that as an option