Is anyone deliberately planning on not watching this farce of an interview like me? I never would say that this cheat was a hero to me but I carried a lot of respect for him from his on road exploits and, greater for me, the cancer work (something that I, like many, have been impacted by). It’s actually this side of it that has disappointed me the most, how can anyone going through that battle carry any sort of hope or inspiration from this lying, bullying PoS.

No real point to this post, just having my say.

wrecker – Member

Millar is no saint, and I’m sure he’ll never be able to completely remove the blot from his name, but I doubt there are many stronger anti-doping advocates, simply because he [/s]is living proof that in the long term it does not benefit the athlete either professionally or personally got caught

Correct me if I’m wrong but Millar wasn’t caught doping. The police found 2 empty EPO ampules in his bedroom. There was no evidence that they were his or that he had used them. He didn’t fail a blood test either, and wouldn’t have because they were months old and he hadn’t reused.

Millar could have quite easily claimed they were soemone elses etc etc and that he was clean. In all likely hood he would have suceeded if he had wanted to take this route. BUT he chose not to, he came clean very much to his own detriment.

I’m not saying Millar is a Saint but he sure as hell cannot be comapred to Lance!

but has he actually been tested positive now

Twice, I believe

Seems to me an awful lot of people who continued to believe in Lance until long after it became sensible to do so will now swing the other way & become fervently anti-dopers. Doesn’t really compensate for their gullibilty in the first place but hey-ho that’s human nature I suppose.

He didn’t fail a blood test either

Never failed a test. Where have we heard that before?
The similarities keep coming.
I wonder how he’d fare if his samples were tested now as LAs were?
I’m not pro or ant lance, just pointing out that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.

Actually having thought about it I can sort of see Wreckers point to a certain extent;

“A cheat is a cheat” – It’s a pretty black and white way of looking at it, but if one cheat can find some degree of “redemption” then it follows that another should be able to also…

Millar will always have the doping episode hanging over whatever else may achieve. I think the true measure of anyone involved in the sort of activities that both men have been is how they then conduct themselves in the aftermath. If they can manage to follow the negative impact they’ve had on the sport and people involved with something positive.

Some would say that Millar has acquitted himself well over the last 6 years or so, but then his was a “shorter road” to track back over than LaLa’s; fewer Victims, less money involved, not quite the same public profile (outside of cycling) as Lance…

LaLa has close to a decade of “false dominance” over the sport to make up for, as well as various individuals lives and careers irrepairably damaged by his actions.

TBH If he can rebuild anything like half the reputation that Millar has Scraped together he’ll be doing very well.

Perhaps there is a danger of everyone with a twitter account or STW login “Judging” him before the whole story is finished, just like Millar he could still manage to make amends. But that is probably an even bigger task than winning 7 TDFs clean would have been and I don’t think there is any performance enhancing substance or shortcut available for the task, Oprah certainly isn’t one…

Correct me if I’m wrong but Millar wasn’t caught doping. The police found 2 empty EPO ampules in his bedroom. There was no evidence that they were his or that he had used them. He didn’t fail a blood test either, and wouldn’t have because they were months old and he hadn’t reused.

Millar could have quite easily claimed they were soemone elses etc etc and that he was clean. In all likely hood he would have suceeded if he had wanted to take this route. BUT he chose not to, he came clean very much to his own detriment.

You are correct, it was more that he gave in to the pressure of questioning and heavy leaning from the French Police I think…

…Millar eventually confessed to police on 24 June 2004. He admitted using EPO in 2001 and 2003. He blamed it on stress, in particular losing the prologue, the opening time-trial, in the 2003 Tour, and being beaten by Jan Ullrich in the 2001 world time trial championship. Under cycling rules a confession equates to a positive test. British Cycling suspended him for two years in August 2004. He was disqualified as 2003 world time trial champion, fined CHF2,000 ‘(approx. €1250)’, and disqualified from the 2003 Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré and 2001 Vuelta a España. Cofidis fired him and dropped out of racing while it investigated other team members….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Millar#Doping

That pretty much summarizes it…

For me- you cheat you are banned from all competitions for life.

It then makes that transitional moment where you decide to dope a very clear cut choice with no leeway.

In addition you are given a really good kicking by blokes holding billiard balls inside socks.

Seems to me an awful lot of people who continued to believe in Lance until long after it became sensible to do so will now swing the other way & become fervently anti-dopers. Doesn’t really compensate for their gullibilty in the first place but hey-ho that’s human nature I suppose.

I think these fell into two camps though, Those that would not believe and those that wanted evidence.

I sat on the fence until the evidence came out. I really wanted to see multiple positive tests. I was not going to label him a cheat on the basis he won more than anyone else.

I wonder how he’d fare if his samples were tested now as LAs were?
I’m not pro or ant lance, just pointing out that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat.

Well they’d find EPO. As he already admitted to. In print. On TV. On radio. It’s quite clear his admission to police was down to them putting pressure on and it’s hard to say if he’d have confessed if they hadn’t raided his home after arresting him and found the vials.

Again though, he’s not QUITE the same as Lance despite being a cheat.

I very much doubt that LA gave any evidence under oath to the Grand Jury, but if he did and now has changed his story, a perjury charge will be forthcoming.

Does he not escape the perjury charge by courtesy of it being outside the US statute of limitations?

I suspect with LA he’s just taking down the big guys with him. They’ll sink without a trace. LA will have a new book out shortly, presumably he’s been keeping quiet for a bit whilst he jots down a few notes about his’ crimes’. Accountant will have worked out the money he is likely to owe plaintiffs and how much he has at the moment and he’ll have enough to live comfortably for the rest of his life.

And to be frank, as others have said, if he does have one redeeming benefit then we might get a serious root-and-branch overhaul of the sport (or even sports).

And them DM might be able to name and shame a few people himself on the way to redemption…

For me- you cheat you are banned from all competitions for life.

It then makes that transitional moment where you decide to dope a very clear cut choice with no leeway.

In addition you are given a really good kicking by blokes holding billiard balls inside socks.

Sadly you are not the UCI Hora…

Has much changed withing the UCI since September?
Ultimately the whole affair highlights the seismic failures/corruption of the sports governing body IMO…

I said it before and i’ll say it again as a body tasked with both promoting and policing cycling the UCI have proven they cannot be trusted to do both. So I’ll vote for Hora and his mates from the billiard hall as the new incorruptible governing body of cycling, can I propose you change the name to “The League of cycling Justice”…

oh and apparently

The interview is set to air Thursday at 9pm eastern time in the US on the Oprah Winfrey Network and will be streamed live internationally on Oprah.com.

from Here, the guardian seem to be lapping this up…

Anything from the Mail yet? I can’t imagine they’d let this one slide by…

Cyclist in performance enhancing products use shocker 😯

Come on STW’ers it was one the worst kept secret in cycling; riders using performance enhancing products.

The real issue is that LA won lots of races/events exploiting the many loopholes in the very amateurish drugs testing programmes whilst being support by the cycling establishment; then sponsors found religion and have become evangelical about drug free sport entertainment.

Irrespective of what other think, LA is still a hero in my eyes; he survived cancer, setup one of the best cancer charities in the world and in a level professional cycling playing field won TdFs 7 times.

Irrespective of what other think, LA is still a hero in my eyes; he survived cancer, setup one of the best cancer charities in the world and in a level professional cycling playing field won TdFs 7 times.

Troll is a bit too obvious, but no doubt some will still bite. 🙂

(please say you weren’t serious?!)

Where do you reside Kona? The Rampton Physiatric wing?

Surely your Internet usage is restricted?

I’m not pro or ant lance, just pointing out that a cheat is a cheat is a cheat

Not sure anyone is denying that millar is a cheat just simply pointing out that you can have degrees of cheating from bending the rules to bribing the officials [ all cheating so all the same eh?]

Your view of either good or bad is simplistic.
Take theft
Someone steals some food for their hungry baby which is the same as stealing someone bikes for heroin as they are both stealing.

If you cannot see this huge area of grey you are going to struggle in life.

I assume speeding at 76 on an empty motorway is the same as doing 76 past a school at home time as they are both speeding

International Richard – Member

He ruined the reputation of his sport.

No he didn’t- how does one man do that? It took almost every part of his sport working together to bring it to where it is now.

I totally understand why people will want to make Lance the boss level of drugs in cycling- the whole industry’s got a vested interest in pretending it’s so, from fans to the UCI. But there’s no truth in it and I think everyone knows that really.

Anyone good with photoshop?

He was from alone in doing this and it cannot all be blamed on him

Anyone good with photoshop?

Sure what part of her body do you want his hands to be cupping?

I dislike both Millar and Armstong in equal measures, the former for being a cheat and sickening hypocrite, the latter for the many many reasons already stated.

What I will say however is that in grassing up everyone else involved (regardless of his motivation for doing so), Lance will do more for Anti Doping than that Weasel Millar ever has. Its something that Millar, if he was serious about anti doping, should have done years ago.

International Richard – Member
He ruined the reputation of his sport.

Northwind – Member

No he didn’t- how does one man do that? It took almost every part of his sport working together to bring it to where it is now.

He ruined it by bringing the sport to the masses consciousness and representing a role model, then cheating beyond all belief. We all are into cycling and can cite story after hyperlink but the average joe public has limited knowledge about cycling other than ‘lance Armstrong, what a hero’. Now ask the masses what their opinion of the tdf and it’ll be met with ‘they are all at it’ load of sh!t etc etc

This is why imo he has ruined the sport…. No?

(please say you weren’t serious?!)

As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field, performance enhancing products were widely used, for me they only enhanced performance, I could take a full on cocktail of whatever and still not be able to win a stage of the TdF.

He ruined it by bringing the sport to the masses consciousnes

He only did that for America, maybe a little bit in other English speaking countries.

As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field

There’s certainly plenty of accusations that LA [to a certain extent] controlled who could and who couldn’t have EPO in his team.

As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field

Why do people keep trotting out this line even though the USADA report (among other things) show clearly that this just isn’t true? I don’t get it. It’s like wearing ignorance like a badge.

Sorry but Millar and Lala are miles apart.

Millar cheated, got caught and held his hands up to it.

Armstrong cheated, pressured large numbers of other riders in to cheating, crushed anyone who might try and question his ‘innocence’ and generally acted like a bully to everyone while making a large fortune off the back it all.

The famous Paul Kimmage confrontation gives an insight in to how thoroughly unpleasant the bloke is.

What I will say however is that in grassing up everyone else involved (regardless of his motivation for doing so), Lance will do more for Anti Doping than that Weasel Millar ever has. Its something that Millar, if he was serious about anti doping, should have done years ago.

LA will only do this to try and save his sorry hide, not for any love of the sport, guilt or compassion for what he did.

International Richard – Member

Now ask the masses what their opinion of the tdf and it’ll be met with ‘they are all at it’ load of sh!t etc etc

And they’d be right. Public opinion in based on fact shocker.

The attitude seems to be that it’s alright for a sport to be dirty, as long as the public don’t know? And that if it becomes known, it’s the fault of one person not the sport?

Wonder what this is gonna do to Discovery Communications share price?! Funny how they were one of the major team sponsors and they co-own the Oprah Winfrey Channel.

LA’s dad walked out on his Mother didn’t he? I know to a degree we are a product of our up bringing but does nature also play a part? Alittle personal but you’ve got to think- where does his mindset come from.

As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field

1) if it was true it would only be so amongst dopers, not everyone doped. Didn’t the retrospective analysis of samples from ’99 (which identified several connected to LA) give a doping rate of approx 9%?

2) its not true. Different people react differently to PEDs, and different people (with more $$$) would have access to better PEDS and more sophisticated regimes.

This argument has been comprehensively dismissed ad nauseum in numerous LA threads on here and the references contained within.

http://fraudbytes.blogspot.co.uk/2010/09/lance-armstrong-investigation-expert.html

Ashenden goes on to explain the tests that were conducted in 2005 on 1999 Tour de France riders when better EPO tests came out. At the time, 87 samples were tested from 1999 and 13 of them were positive, meaning they showed EPO was in the urine of Tour riders. Of the 13 positives, almost half (6), turned out to be Lance’s urine.

Handy game you can play.

NORTHWIND – Yes but the sport is driven by money. The sponsors want the masses to buy the sponsors products and not to be associated with lala, therefore the uneducated opinion of a none cyclist is very important. The fact the masses didn’t know about it is the very reason Armstrong is more culpable than other cyclist cheats (bullying, suing, denying, hiding behind charities)

Debating on a forum is like pissing in the wind so I’m jut gonna read here on out

Ps- MSP my uk none cycling friends had never heard of tdf until Armstrong did what he did

As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field, performance enhancing products were widely used, for me they only enhanced performance,

Not everyone cheated so it was in no way a level playing field- widely is not univerally and it was cheating. In what way does some people cheating create a level playing field?

Its not a great argument its laughable

Northwind you are bing unfair just taking that quote his overall statement was reasonable and explained why he thought LA ruined it – he is not suggetsing anything like that and you must know that

Discovery Communications share price

Oprah owns it (I believe / so R2 told me).

International Richard – Member

NORTHWIND – Yes but the sport is driven by money. The sponsors want the masses to buy the sponsors products and not to be associated with lala, therefore the uneducated opinion of a none cyclist is very important. The fact the masses didn’t know about it is the very reason Armstrong is more culpable than other cyclist cheats

Rubbish. The sponsors are as complicit as everyone else. If you want to get behind a clean sport, you help make it clean and keep it clean, you don’t complain when it becomes known how dirty it is. Sponsors were happy to ride the wave of Lance’s success.

Seems to me an awful lot of people who continued to believe in Lance until long after it became sensible to do so will now swing the other way & become fervently anti-dopers.

…taking his cue just a few posts later

hora – Member
For me- you cheat you are banned from all competitions for life.

As far as I am concerned it was a level playing field, performance enhancing products were widely used, for me they only enhanced performance, I could take a full on cocktail of whatever and still not be able to win a stage of the TdF.

That’s as maybe, but you suggested he “setup one of the best cancer charities in the world” – surely nobody could make that suggestion with a straight face?

Sponsors were happy to ride the wave of Lance’s success.

yes but many were sucked into to beleieving
Look at the reaction to USADA there was still many many folk defending him

Yes they wanted to ride his wave but they all ditched him sharpish once it was in the open -they did not want to be associated witha drug taking lying cheat for reasons that should be so obvious i dont need to state them

[Oprah owns it (I believe / so R2 told me).

/quote]

I think you’ll find it’s the Newhouse family that have controlling stake in Discovery Communications and they own half of Oprah Channel. May stand corrected though. Whoever it is, they will still have shareholders to please.

I think you’ll find it’s the Newhouse family that have controlling stake in Discovery Communications and they own half of Oprah Channel. May stand corrected though. Whoever it is, they will still have shareholders to please.

I knew that there was some link.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lamezMh04K0[/video]

This springs to mind (I hope it’s the right video as I am at work and have no speakers to listen to make sure it’s the right video).