Lance Armstrong… love him or hate him. .. …

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  • Lance Armstrong… love him or hate him. .. …
  • atlaz
    Member

    Well to be fair, I’m glad they raised awareness of cancer. I’d never heard of it until Armstrong talked about it… 🙄

    Premier Icon coolhandluke
    Subscriber

    He just like most politicians in my book

    Lying cheating thieving twonks, the lot of them.

    atlaz
    Member

    These acts are what sets him apart from the other drug cheats of the time and the reason why he has been treated differently.

    Exactly. All the others participated in it, took advantage of it and lied to get out of positive tests if possible but nobody was more damaging to other people or the sport than Lance. The strange thing is, it took the USADA report to open most people’s eyes despite almost all the info (other than the testimonies of contemporaries) was in the public domain before.

    bikebouy
    Member

    Erm spoiler alert!!!! Don’t tell me how the documentary ends !!!! Arrrrgh 😆

    IanMunro
    Member

    None of this would have happened if cyclists were registered and had to pay road tax.

    When was this Documentary on?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    epicyclo wrote:

    I’d like to go through this forum and delete the posts in which I defended him up to the bitter end.

    At least you’re not hora 😆

    mudshark
    Member

    You can’t directly compare Armstrong to Hitler and then say you’re not directly comparing them!

    He he…bound to be a few Lance supporters about – even Hitler had his fans….

    Rob Hilton
    Member

    konabunny – Member
    You can’t directly compare Armstrong to Hitler and then say you’re not directly comparing them!

    Yes I can – I can do what I like! If this was a Nazi controlled state, however, then I probly couldn’t. And oblivious troll threads like this one would probly be verboten too.

    So, which way would YOU have it then Lemmy? :mrgreen:

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Tref Hopkins wrote:

    Armstrong is a product of our system.

    Not really – he helped to create the system.

    misinformer wrote:

    Yeah, just like Chris Boardman, which is clearly why he didn’t win anything EVER.

    Well he didn’t really compare did he iirc he never even finished a tour and only won stages which he was rolled out for
    [/quote]

    He won the Criterium International, was 2nd in Dauphine Libere and Tour of Romandie, 3rd in Paris Nice in addition to numerous stage wins in those and other major stage races, World TT Champion, winner of GP des Nations. By any standards that was a highly successful racing career, far more successful than most professional cyclists, and arguably at least as good as LA pre-cancer. My comment about him was in reply to a suggestion that LA deserved sympathy as he had to take drugs in order to win anything, when quite clearly that isn’t true. Well maybe it was for LA, maybe he wasn’t as good as CB. The point remains that even in the LA era it was quite possible to be a very successful pro cyclist without drugs, it wasn’t a choice which was forced on anybody.

    Alternatively I could have suggested Cuddles, who didn’t suffer from the issues which made it impossible for CB to perform well over 3 weeks, but CB is a plenty good enough example of somebody winning pro bike races clean.

    freeagent
    Member

    Lance was an exceptional cyclist, and must have had exceptional strength of character to get back to the top of his game after months of Chemo etc.
    You could almost forgive the drug use considering everyone was at it..
    However, the fact he targeted and bullied those who doubted him so aggressively, abused his position in such a big way just to better himself and kept the lies going for years is unforgiveable, and for that, I hope he gets sued for every penny he has and lives out his days in sad obscurity…

    nealglover
    Member

    armstrong turned over £30 million via livestrong… what an impact for cancer research!

    My £4 a month Direct Debit does more for Cancer Research than Lance Armstrong’s £30 million did. 🙄

    butcher
    Member

    I’ve not seen the film as I don’t want to add to his ego/pension fund in any way, but does it cover his bullying of Frankie and Betsy Andreu? His destroying of Emma Reily? His public humiliation and career ending of Christophe Basson? His public abuse even of Tyler Hamilton?

    These acts are what sets him apart from the other drug cheats of the time and the reason why he has been treated differently.

    This sums it up. I couldn’t care too much about the fact he cheated. At the time, the whole system was broken, which is what led to the majority cheating. Can’t really blame Lance for that.

    The only reason he is where he is, is because he made so many enemies at the time. It’s all of his own making.

    Some of this stuff is covered in The Armstrong Lie by the way. In fact I’d say it’s fairly balanced. Not anti-Lance, and not pro-Lance. It’s worth watching.

    Junkyard
    Member

    This has got to be a troll, right?

    YES – thankfully its a new one that has not been done to death so everyone will get sucked in

    Premier Icon metalheart
    Subscriber

    I love all this Lance was an exceptional/phenomenal cyclist shit.

    So good he had to take drugs though right?

    He was average, although probably good classics, rider but shit at grand tours.

    He was, however, a phenomenal responder to EPO.

    He didn’t invent doping but not being able to beat them he joined them. And he did do it professionally.

    And all this cancer shit, go read about how much fun the charity ride guys had….

    fasthaggis
    Member

    I had almost forgotton about him ,almost. Sorry for the film crew ,but I hope it flops.

    iolo
    Member

    the wanderer – Member
    I don’t think any one who is competitive at a world level is a nice person. Every action is calculated to increase their chances to win.

    We were doing a private uplift on illegal tracks in deepest darkest North Wales and Peaty and Ratboy turned up on the invite of one of the riders.
    We had so much fun, truly joining in the banter and frivolity that you can imagine in the back of a van. Really nice guys.

    Tracey Moseley came several times to another track as it’s a brutal track from top to bottom. This is on private land and one day the landowner turned up. That meant that day’s dh riding was stopped.
    I went round Coed y Brenin with her and her boyfriend. She’s such a lovely person.

    Both Peaty and Moseley have been champions.

    nealglover
    Member

    Yep, although there was one year when Livestrong gave something like $20m for research, about 5% of their takings that year.

    Which year was that ?

    Premier Icon eddiebaby
    Subscriber

    He is scum. Cycling’s John Terry.

    warton
    Member

    A couple of points, then I’m out…

    armstrong turned over £30 million via livestrong… what an impact for cancer research!

    No money goes to cancer research, it goes to cancer ‘awareness’, and paying Lance Armstrong’s Legal fees, and his 200k personal appearance fee, every time he turned up at a Livestrong event.

    This statement “everyone was at it” is simply not true, at least when you look at 1999, his first win. the festina affair of 1998 had riders and teams scared, it was a very clean tour, apart from US Postal, who effectively kick started the arms race again. I don’t know the exact figures, but when those 1999 sample were re tested for EPO in 2005, out of 36 (?) samples, 12 (?) were positive, 6 (?) of those were Armstrongs.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    iolo wrote:

    Tracey Moseley came several times to another track as it’s a brutal track from top to bottom. This is on private land and one day the landowner turned up. That meant that day’s dh riding was stopped.
    I went round Coed y Brenin with her and her boyfriend. She’s such a lovely person.
    Both Peaty and Moseley have been champions.

    Moseley dominated the Enduro World Cup last year, so I think it’s fair to say she’s currently competitive at a world level. In between jetting around the world to those she found time to coach mini-aracer, amongst many other juniors helped by her at our club, and she regularly turns out to club events which I doubt are a huge benefit to her personal performance. Good call. I think it’s fair to say that Liam Killeen is/was also competitive at a world level, and he’s also been involved with coaching the juniors at our club – quite quiet, but also a genuinely nice bloke, and somebody I’m proud to say I know.

    I think this idea that you have to be a ruthless sociopath to succeed at world level is part of the LA mythology, an attempt to excuse his behaviour, when clearly it’s not actually true.

    tpbiker
    Member

    The guy was clearly a nasty piece of work. Not at all bothered about the drug taking aspect though, this appears to be the least of his sins.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    Well he beat lots of other junkies.

    mt
    Member

    He did win it 7 times though, whatever anyone says. 7 Tour wins will be remembered even when it’s pointed out that he cheated.

    piemonster
    Member

    He did win it 7 times though, whatever anyone says. 7 Tour wins will be remembered even when it’s pointed out that he cheated.

    He hasn’t won the TDF, he’s been disqualified from 7. But not won them.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Which year was that ?

    The foundation gave out a total of $20 million in research grants between 1998 and 2005, the year it began phasing out its support of hard science. A note on the foundation’s website informs visitors that, as of 2010, it no longer even accepts research proposals.

    http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/athletes/lance-armstrong/Its-Not-About-the-Lab-Rats.html

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    What bugs me most about him is that he perpetuated the myth that you have to be a **** to be a winner.

    It is complete bullshine, there are many many highly successful athletes, world record holders and champions who are “nice guys”. But because of a few nasty little bastards coaches and parents are teaching the young the very worst habits of a few notorious winners.

    I know the op is a troll, but I just hate hearing the stupid idea that to be a success you have to be a nasty bastard rolled out, many actually seam to believe it.

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    You get EPO abuse at all levels and not just the winners. Local road races, local running clubs. It’s rife throughout sport. Local rider got a two year ban and he wasn’t winning anything special. Dan Staite, Drugs cheat.

    nealglover
    Member

    Which year was that ?

    The foundation gave out a total of $20 million in research grants between 1998 and 2005, the year it began phasing out its support of hard science. A note on the foundation’s website informs visitors that, as of 2010, it no longer even accepts research proposals.

    .
    So it was actually Eight years then ?

    kcr
    Member

    It’s very simple. Sport runs within a framework of rules. Everyone participating agrees to play within that framework, and if you break the rules you will be sanctioned.
    An individual’s “charity” work is not relevant in any way.

    Lance Armstrong? Text book psychopath:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

    glib and superficial charm,
    grandiosity
    need for stimulation
    pathological lying
    cunning and manipulating,
    lack of remorse
    callousness
    poor behavioral controls
    impulsiveness
    irresponsibility
    denial
    parasitic lifestyle
    sexual promiscuity
    early behavior problems
    lack of realistic long-term goals
    failure to accept responsibility for own actions
    many short-term marital relationships
    juvenile delinquency
    revocation of conditional release
    criminal versatility

    Spin
    Member

    lack of realistic long-term goals

    Not so sure about that one!

    I love him and hate him but I think I hate him more.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    Armstrong for cancer, or this bloke?

    FaceBook – ”Love your sister”

    (I recommend you go to the FaceBook page before making smart STW comments on its name.)

    glasgowdan
    Member

    Doping is one thing, but he then denied it, intimidated and threatened other people to keep quiet, used his power and money to bully people and continued to lie throughout it all.

    Like I say, doping is one thing, but Armstrong is a ****. He always will be.

    Poggy, you’re only seeing half the picture. The documentary (I haven’t seen it) must have been from HIS perspective. Read more, such as David Miller’s autobio. Then come back onto this thread and reply saying you STILL agree with your first post.

    atlaz
    Member

    The documentary glosses over the damage he did. The only people who get much air time are Frankie and Betsy Andreu, Simeoni gets a brief mention and appearance as does Emma O’Reilly but nothing about Bassons, LeMond or other people.

    The whole documentary comes across as Gibney trying to rescue something from all the stock footage he had more than a really open portrayal of Armstrong and his behaviour. It still perpetuates the lie that everyone doped so Lance had to. It doesn’t really go into any of the Livestrong stuff nor his financial fraud (although it shows the video testimony without explaining why it was made). I wouldn’t show it to someone who thinks Lance was pretty awesome really as it’s still casting Lance in a relatively positive light considering.

    That said, the best part is seeing Lance setting off for a ride with his daughters riding around outside the house on what look like Halfords BSOs.

    TurnerGuy
    Member

    At least he’s not a kiddie fiddler…

    Poggy
    Member

    Wow, only posted after seeing doc, thinking…

    I wonder what responses would pop up! Certainly a mixed bag!

    My fav bit of doc, was Lance in kids cancer hospital, you could really see him for who he is, it meant the world to him being around those children, put a lot of things into perspective I felt.

    Thanks for everyone’s posts, am impressed!

    Poggy
    Member

    glasgowdan…

    we all have different opinions & views, I still feel he’s done more for cycling than any other individual.

    Premier Icon grtdkad
    Subscriber

    Interesting thread.

    I am currently re-reading It’s Not About the Bike and will start my own six-week course of radiotherapy on Monday next week.

    While the context has changed (certainly for me) I reckon he’s a fairly tarnished man in a very tarnished sport. Still awesome on a bike in a field full of equivalent cheats – but he’s had the cancer shit to deal with too…

    Poggy
    Member

    grtdkad – Good luck for your radiotherapy treatment!

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    My fav bit of doc, was Lance in kids cancer hospital, you could really see him for who he is

    What, he was even a manipulative shit in a kids cancer hospital?

    grtdkad – good luck with the radiotherapy, I really hope that goes well, but other better fiction is also available.

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    Meanwhile…

    On Thursday February 13, 2014, Samuel Johnson completed his mission…

    He’s broken the world record for longest distance travelled on a unicycle, raised over $1.5m and the whole way round strove to remind every young Mum in the land to be Breast Aware.

    Poggy. Really??? Which planet are you on?

    He’s tarnished the whole sport to an enormous extent. By being the “best” ever he became the “worst” ever.

    atlaz
    Member

    we all have different opinions & views, I still feel he’s done more for cycling than any other individual.

    Please explain that comment. I just can’t quite get my head around it

    lemonysam
    Member

    Please explain that comment. I just can’t quite get my head around it

    I suspect it means that the poster didn’t really watch road cycling until an anglophone was winning therefore cycling as a sport only became important when Lance Armstrong started winning.

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