Where’s this little lot then guys please?

Without watching it I’m going to say this includes the highly controversial bit directly up from the bridge and this thread will turn into an argument about riding ethics.

And how about after watching it? Where’s the bridge?

And how about after watching it?

I’d still tend to agree with Podge 😉

Looks like Win Hill north side down to the reservoir – there are a lot of lines through the woods there (several marked on strava if you’re planning a ride).

Without wanting to get into an ethics argument, are those trails frowned upon? They seem far enough away from cafes and walkers that riders don’t really cause any grief.

They were fairly busy with riders last time I was there, though.

Excellent stuff… certainly something to consider for August 🙂

I’ve given a locaish mate the job of seeking them out before we come up.

The land owner (one of the biggest and most influential in the area) knows about them and is not happy, until off piste riding and building is curbed they hugely reluctant to work with the locals to legitimise any further development of the area.

The woodland stuff is more of an issue for the land owner as there’s more scope for injury and financial penalty to them.

The open moorland stuff is more of an issue for locals as it’s become a massive visible scar across the hill and as such attracted the vocal NIMBY crew.

Everyone who rides this should be made to sit through the local access forum meetings to see how much of a ball ache the issue is.

Everyone who rides this should be made to sit through the local access forum meetings to see how much of a ball ache the issue is.

IT’s OK, we’re not locals 🙂

As always, publishing the details of sensitive trails on a public forum breaks rule 1.

Amazing that people don’t get that.🤔

With all the digging that’s been going on it wont be long before they are closed or even worse a bad accident.

Some of the stuff is steep and extreme in places and very easy to get well out of your depth with very little wiggle room when it goes wrong.

On a weekend its now very busy with people sessioning bits of it

Agree with what’s been said above, I cant envisage a good outcome.

The fact that the whole Win Hill area had new fences put up not long ago should provide the hint that you aren’t allowed to ride in there, yet mtbers seem to think that they are entitled to ride, and dig, wherever they please. As @thepodge says, all this is doing damage to any talks to gain legitimate mtb trails.

The Win Hill trails have been compared to Wharncliffe, however, there is one huge difference, in that you are allowed to ride in Wharncliffe.

The other major difference between Win Hill and Wharncliffe is the about of walkers and general public about. On a summer weekend the place is packed as we all know and that increases the likelihood of conflict. As @Tracey says I can’t see it ending well.

The Win Hill trails have been compared to Wharncliffe, however, there is one huge difference, in that you are allowed to ride in Wharncliffe.

I’m happy to ride wherever with the lad, we’re novices to the Peaks and just browsing Google/Youtube as to where we ride for the ‘big boys’ rides…. we’ve got plenty of family stuff, some walking, chilling etc… but as we’ve travelled to the Peaks we’d like a bit of riding for a day or 2… Me, i prefer the trail stuff in that video instead of the jump park section, but he’d prefer at least some time on the jumps for sure.
If Wharncliffe has more trailsy type stuff then i’m more than happy to go.

It seems almost everyone on win hill is there to ride the off piste now. It absolutely exploded last summer. I don’t think Tommy c hype helped the situation!

100% north side of Win Hill. just follow your nose (or strava heat map) its awesome.

not sure there are any issues with most of the trails but the big jumpy bermy ones at the far end (known as narnia) have always been contentious with land owners… then again, the work thats gone into them! id be suprised anyone would put that much effort into somthing likely to be destroyed….

IT’s OK, we’re not locals

Probably an idea to take that video down. It just provides ammunition that a minority will use against the majority of mountain bikers.
Same happened with green-laning: from lots of access to almost none. Public opinion is fickle, yet powerful.

I don’t think Tommy c hype helped the situation!

he did the same at Heptonstall last year.  Filmed in the hills 100 yards from where I used to live and it went nuts the following weeks. I don’t want to blame him directly, I think folk are getting in touch with him and asking him to ride their local gnarr…but when he puts it on line, it goes crazy.

He did a bit of mea-culpa video a few weeks ago now, and some of the comments on it were dumb as shit when it came to riding obviously controversial stuff.

At our end of the Peak District (Hayfield/New Mills end), all out door types get on. However when you start mtbing in the honey pot spots there are lots of visitors (ramblers, day trippers etc) who see us as racing around and ruining the countryside, this just causes conflict.
It takes years to grow a good reputation of riding our mtbikes with consideration and care, but only months can destroy this.

Maybe Wharncliffe would be a better option.

Probably an idea to take that video down. It just provides ammunition that a minority will use against the majority of mountain bikers.

we can’t edit posts after 15 mins.

The other major difference between Win Hill and Wharncliffe is the about of walkers and general public about. On a summer weekend the place is packed as we all know and that increases the likelihood of conflict.

That’s not true IME. Walkers around Win Hill are on the bridleways, footpaths and up at the summit. The only time you might pass is on the bridleways that are used as uphill links by riders. No one is really walking in the woods, and certainly not up or down the steep built MTB trails. IMO, riding fast on the bridleways elsewhere in the peak is far more likely to bring conflict between walkers and riders.

IMO Win Hill ticks a lot of boxes for not causing issues:
a) trails in the woods – not a visual eyesore
b) away from walkers
c) easily accessible
a) a big hill / lots of space for trails

I’ve never really understood the ins and outs of the ‘liability’ argument, but clearly it’s an issue for landowners. But beyond that, I can’t see too much downside here. It would be a real shame to lose them, and advertising them via these forum posts and YouTube videos will only increase the chance of that, so let’s not do that.

Where’s that circular argume earning sign?

Firstly, the main access point is a big scar over open moorland which is very visible. Secondly, people have to lift their bikes over fences then climb over them. Making it obvious they shouldn’t be there. Thirdly, the trails spit you out on bridleways and many of those exits are very steep. So all it takes is bad timing for potential conflict.

Where’s that circular argume earning sign?

I don’t think so. I’m trying to understand why some people might have a problem with the trails, since I don’t like conflict. But also arguing to keep the status quo – hence not wanting to advertise them. The two views are not exclusive.

Or maybe I’ve missed something?

Not sure which fence you’re climbing over, there’s more than one gate that can be used. Same with access path, it’s an existing bridleway up to win hill, no? And I have never seen a single walker in there.

It’s a shame if the landowner isn’t down with it – I’m inclined to agree that it gets people off the packed bridleways and out of sight. Some of them are shitting steep though I can see how that would cause concern

There are no bridleways to the summit of Win Hill itself. Yes, there are some gates in the fence, but many of these dont allow public access. Where public access is provided, via signed gates to footpaths and bridleways in the woods, do these give cart blanche to ride wherever?

The land owner (one of the biggest and most influential in the area) knows about them and is not happy, until off piste riding and building is curbed they hugely reluctant to work with the locals to legitimise any further development of the area.

I can think of three ‘biggest most influential’ land owners in the area.  There is a campaign to get one of them to pay his inheritance tax because of not allowing cyclists on tracks in one of his other estates so there isn’t much chance of him saying yes to anything cycling related anyway.

Another seems to have a track record of employing people to accidentally shoot birds of prey on his land.

I always thought that the forested bits were Severn Trent land?

I don’t think so. I’m trying to understand why some people might have a problem with the trails, since I don’t like conflict. But also arguing to keep the status quo – hence not wanting to advertise them. The two views are not exclusive.

Or maybe I’ve missed something?

Well…I would imagine the landowner who is liable for anyone spanging themselves on their land will be pissed off.  At the end of the day it’s their land and it’s being damaged.

I would also imagine the likes of Ride Sheffield, Peak MTB who put hours/days/months/years of effort trying to get legitimate access for everyone will be pretty pissed off at their efforts being undermined.

At the end of the day it’s their land and it’s being damaged.

Is it being damaged?

I know it’s a long way from “leave no trace”, but some trails through an industrial plantation isn’t really “damage”, is it? If people start nailing thing to trees, or felling them, then it might well be.

I’m with the “keep it quiet, and keep the entrances/exits hidden” approach. Multiple exits onto often used tracks is asking for trouble.

Sorry i asked now 😀

It’s a bit too late to keep it quiet. And there are multiple entry and exit points all along that side of the hill. Looks fun though.

Pretty sure alpkit used some of it to promote one of their new bikes, so maybe it’s fine and we can all ride it guilt free?

I would also imagine the likes of Ride Sheffield, Peak MTB who put hours/days/months/years of effort trying to get legitimate access for everyone will be pretty pissed off at their efforts being undermined.

I can understand that but with some of the local landowners you are dealing with getting on for 900 yeas of privilege and another you are dealing with Severn Trent so the chance of progress is remote at best

So many people riding now if everybody stuck to the bridleways and no “off piste” at all there is a potential for alot more conflict with other users especially with all the electric motorbikes. Need to apply common sense not damage fences, trees etc and exercise care on what you have not ridden before. If a land owner is dead against you doing it then you need to consider elsewhere. Maybe a ban on head angles below 68 will stop these crazy steep trails 😉

@weeksy – head to wharny, you’ll find every type of trail in there – all above board.

Is it being damaged?

No, probably not.

I nearly put inverted commas around “damaged” but at the end of the day, they’ll probably see it as something they have to sort, so therefore “damaged”.

but where does the wood/logs come from that is used to support jumps? im guessing that the builders dont carry it in with them. This was confirmed when i saw trail builders carrying bow saws.

id class that as damage.

If a land owner is dead against you doing it then you need to consider elsewhere

I don’t necessarily agree. If everyone did that then walkers would still have no access to various places. ( Kinder Trespass)

Now whilst I accept that cyclists are generally deemed as being subhuman in the UK and so we couldn’t possibly expect more than crumbs…

another you are dealing with Severn Trent so the chance of progress is remote at best

its early days still, but the relationship with Severn Trent and Peak District MTB appears strong – permissive bridleway up Elmin Pitts is evidence of this. I understand the Severn Trent contact is young and understands things well from the MTB side. Personally, if people kept it off Social Media, didn’t build large gap features and left it looking vaguely natural, I think it could have a future and largely ignored. The way it’s going I think the trails are on borrowed time.

And I have seen walkers and birders in there. A fair amount.

Weeksy, no need to apologise for asking. I would assume that most people on here and most riders in general sometimes ride cheeky stuff.

The problems start when people strava them or upload to trail forks. Film them and upload for all to see. Its all done innocently however its this that then gets used against us all in arguments as to why we shouldn’t be there.