Labour Party problems

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  • Labour Party problems
  • @DrJ: “You’re not helping, Louise.” 😀

    Premier Icon kimbers
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    There isn’t a ‘tory party problems’ thread (well maybe the Brexit one). But…. https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1098129345166671872?s=19

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    How many mps do you need for your own thread?

    piha
    Member

    If the exodus of Labour MPs results with the tories being torn apart as well, then let us all rejoice!!!

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
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    And on resign to have a by election the constituency can vote/petition and force one. So it’s up to the people they represent. The local Labour Party could organise that but they seriously risk a vote split and losing the seat to a tory in many cases.

    votchy
    Member

    So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party? That seems rather screwed up and allows the situation described above, was not aware of this as I have always voted for the party rather than an individual, my future votes will now be cast differently and I suspect I am not the only one that was mistaken.

    There isn’t a ‘tory party problems’ thread (well maybe the Brexit one).

    As you hint, all current affairs threads, apart from those specifically about other parties are ‘tory party problems’ threads.

    BruceWee
    Member

    So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party? That seems rather screwed up and allows the situation described above, was not aware of this as I have always voted for the party rather than an individual, my future votes will now be cast differently and I suspect I am not the only one that was mistaken.

    I’ve always said there should be an exam to be allowed to register to vote. The exam should have one question, “Are you voting for the Prime Minister or your Member of Parliament?”

    You can take the exam as often as you like. The important thing is to consciously acknowledge you’re not voting for the **** PM.

    scotroutes
    Member

    So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party?

    Err, hello! Why do think there’s an individuals name on the ballot? In Scotland, where a form of PR is in place for the Holyrood elections, there is a second ballot where you choose Party and MSPs are allocated from a list.

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Most people only hear from front benchers and the most media savvy of stirrers – you are not alone.

    Hmmm. Even if they’re not on the front bench I think you could usually expect to come across most MPs through their activities in campaigns etc. Or maybe they are just massive underachievers who aren’t really as active or interested in their constituents as they like to pretend? I feel a bit sorry for Chukka to be honest. Much as I disagree with his politics he does come across as one of the more genuine and competent MPs out there. Now he finds himself surrounded by and allied with the likes of Mike Gapes and Joan Ryan. If ever there was a case of being damned by the people you hang around with, this must be it.

    The important thing is to consciously acknowledge you’re not voting for the **** PM.

    True. However, party leadership is also important – and when for the first time in decades, MPs start walking out of parties, it’s not a strong look.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Wow, I really didn’t realise that. So in theory I could stand as a Tory in a Tory safe seat and then switch to Labour the week after I was elected? That is just clearly wrong.

    What do you think your chances of being selected by the local Tory party would be?

    Premier Icon ransos
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    Ransos – Labour appeared quite happy for Quentin Davies to cross the floor from the tories to join them without immediately standing in a by-election.

    I sure they were but it doesn’t make it right. People will trot out the usual “you vote for your MP, not the party” but that doesn’t really wash: MPs campaign as the officially selected candidate of their party, make use of their party’s resources, and usually campaign on their party’s manifesto. Marginal constituencies are pretty much guaranteed a visit from the party leader. Where I live, a donkey with a red rosette would be elected so the idea that my local MP won because of her superb campaigning skills is utter cobblers.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
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    So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party? That seems rather screwed up and allows the situation described above, was not aware of this as I have always voted for the party rather than an individual, my future votes will now be cast differently and I suspect I am not the only one that was mistaken.

    Yes and No.

    In theory it works like this – you vote for the person who you think is best suited to represent the interests of your local area in Westminster.

    Whoever wins becomes an MP, goes to Westminster and looks after your interests.

    Collectively MPs appoint a leader, the Prime Minister, the PM (I think) assigns the Government Ministers.

    But, in reality, it’s a Party System, I would guess few people know who their MP is, we mostly vote for a party / leader, it is almost unheard of for MPs to not appoint their party leader as PM (I believe the WW2 Labour / Con coalition government was set up in a time of national crisis in this fashion with a Con PM and Lab Deputy PM) and rare for a PM to appoint a non-party MP into the Government, although I believe Tony Blair did offer a role in Government to a Tory, but don’t recall if they took the position or not.

    Of course a lot of Corbynites are braying for the MPs who left the party to stand-down and force a by-election, some of them are probably in Labour strongholds and they’d lose, but they don’t have to and Labour have called for the opposite when it suits them.

    The Indies are, at this moment at least are trying to bring an end to the very party system that probably got them the job in the first place, they’ve taken one of the biggest risks a Politician can take, if they either don’t form a new party, rejoin an existing one or don’t change the face of UK politics they’re gone in the next election (in which, as it stands they’ll be fighting against incredibly well funded Labour candidates) but I think it’s commendable.

    We’ve become far too polarised in the UK, there are very few people who actually read or care about what a candidate at local level says or does, and especially not a national level one – you pick your tribe and try to dishearten people from the other side from voting.

    If they can bring on centric minded Tories, Lib Dems, Greens and Centric Nationalists from Wales and Scotland to form a free thinking party, free from tribalism and party dogma – they could be a real and good change for the UK.

    rene59
    Member

    So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party? That seems rather screwed up and allows the situation described above, was not aware of this as I have always voted for the party rather than an individual, my future votes will now be cast differently and I suspect I am not the only one that was mistaken.

    That’s why we are in the situation we are now. You should always vote for the person not the party, that way we get a better chance of decent representatives in parliament, not just tossers putting party needs before their constituents all the time.

    BillMC
    Member

    This development is certainly not free of tribalism or dogma. Shai Masot of the Israeli embassy was filmed saying how he was using Labour Friends of Israel to ‘take down’ certain politicians. It should come as no surprise that these LFI members are trying to do just that.

    Premier Icon ransos
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    but I think it’s commendable.

    They were quite happy to use the party’s support, under Corbyn’s leadership, to get themselves elected in 2017. Are you seriously suggesting that their reasons for leaving have occurred since then?

    That’s why we are in the situation we are now. You should always vote for the person not the party

    The government of your choice will have far more impact than a single constituency MP.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
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    They were quite happy to use the party’s support, under Corbyn’s leadership, to get themselves elected in 2017. Are you seriously suggesting that their reasons for leaving have occurred since then?

    I really doubt it one single reason that trumps everything else, the real world doesn’t work like that, but I’m “seriously suggesting” that since then Corbyn has been utterly useless on Brexit, because he hates the EU as a form of Globalisation so is happy for us all to suffer to achieve his goals, whilst trying to avoid taking too much blame for it, and equally he has done little or nothing to address the anti-Semitism within his party, because he has become so anti-Israel (as am I) that he’s become Anti-Jew (which I am not).

    Premier Icon dazh
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    because he has become so anti-Israel (as am I) that he’s become Anti-Jew (which I am not)

    Do you really believe that? Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong anti-racism campaigner who has done more than most other MPs put together to fight racism is suddenly a jew hater? Really?

    footflaps
    Member

    So you vote for a person as MP rather than a member of a political party?

    It does worry me that some people are allowed to vote, without the faintest idea of what they are actually voting for…

    I mean, just imagine if we had a referendum on something important, say like leaving the EU and people like that were offered a vote.. it could all go so horribly wrong.

    piha
    Member

    dazh

    Do you really believe that? Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong anti-racism campaigner who has done more than most other MPs put together to fight racism is suddenly a jew hater? Really?

    Wow, who on earth used that term?

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    It does worry me that some people are allowed to vote, without the faintest idea of what they are actually voting for

    The problem is it is a fair assumption to make that you vote for the party not the person. Whilst the law says its the person over time the party side of things has got more and more prominence.
    One of the many parts of our electoral system which could do with a rethink.

    rene59
    Member

    The government of your choice will have far more impact than a single constituency MP.

    And that government will have a lot more impact and be more effective if it were made up of elected representatives who actually gave a shit about anything other than their own party.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
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    Do you really believe that? Jeremy Corbyn, a lifelong anti-racism campaigner who has done more than most other MPs put together to fight racism is suddenly a jew hater? Really?

    No sorry, got a bit ranty there. I meant he’s allowing it within the party by not dealing with it.

    scotroutes
    Member

    Centric Nationalists from Wales and Scotland

    I’d consider both Plaid Cymru and the SNP to be “centric” already.

    Premier Icon ransos
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    And that government will have a lot more impact and be more effective if it were made up of elected representatives who actually gave a shit about anything other than their own party.

    I have some time for that argument, but it doesn’t work in the context of our FPTP electoral system. You only get the government you want to see by voting for that party’s candidate in your constituency.

    Premier Icon P-Jay
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    I’d consider both Plaid Cymru and the SNP to be “centric” already.

    There’s a few hard-lefties in both parties, but for the most party I was trying to avoid talking right wing nationalists, they’re well, quite different of course 😉

    kerley
    Member

    You only get the government you want to see by voting for that party’s candidate in your constituency.

    Exactly. I might have the best intentioned tory MP in the country but if he wins the seat it is another tory seat towards their majority and the polices and actions of the tory government are what the country have to suffer, not the one well intentioned tory mp.

    piha
    Member

    It now appears that Hatton has been suspended…!!! That didn’t take very long.

    Premier Icon binners
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    But this party quite happy to embrace these nasty old trotyites is ready to run the country, apparently

    GO JEZZA!!

    And gorgeous George putting in a star turn.

    “Full Livingstone.” 😆

    Premier Icon v8ninety
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    Look at these nasty bunch of antisemites denying the obvious antisemite issues and claiming that Corbyn is anti racist. Misguided fools; what could 200 prominent Jewish academics, professionals and scholars know about it anyway?

    Premier Icon rone
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    But this party quite happy to embrace these nasty old trotyites is ready to run the country, apparently

    GO JEZZA!!

    Whereas the TINGE party are off to a cracking start.

    investigation into a tweet he posted in 2012 blaming Jews for Israeli government policy.

    The tweet, which resurfaced after he was readmitted to the party on Monday, said: “Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel!”

    Now, I’m no expert, but that looks like something that has been taken out of context purely to stir the pot. Would be interesting to see what it exactly was this tweet was referencing.

    Premier Icon Richie_B
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    I think you could usually expect to come across most MPs through their activities in campaigns

    Activities??? Don’t think you’ve met our local MP

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