They paid you several hundred quid to take it off their hands? WOW, I’m impressed!

Eh? He didn’t specify a bike, said it was cheaper than any of the big name brands. An S-Works frame/fork is £3k, a Superfly SL frame is £2600. £1000 cheaper is very plausible.

They look ok, I don’t understand the cooing. By your own admission you don’t know pricing or exact specs, or (I’m assuming) weight, geometry etc? without any of those facts, open mould or not, it’s just another hardtail.

The queue for the new Trek Emonda starts over there ——————>

Now that is a bike that’s a triumph of marketing guff over substance if ever there was one!

Why? It’s the lightest production road bike out there. You can build lighter, but for one of the big brands to do a 10lb road bike is pretty mental. That aside, the SLR 9 model, with 9070 Di2 and Bontrager carbon wheels is £700 cheaper than the equivalent spec Madone, and still has the 670g frame. Does that make the Madone a triumph of ‘marketing guff’? What about the S-Works McLaren Tarmac?

You are fawning over a bike and saying how incredible they are on the back of a few preview shots. It does sound like you work for them.

Eh? He didn’t specify a bike, said it was cheaper than any of the big name brands. An S-Works frame/fork is £3k, a Superfly SL frame is £2600. £1000 cheaper is very plausible.

You’re comparing apples with oranges though. Several “big name brands” out there offering carbon frames lower down the range than the S-Works or 7 series Trek stuff. A Hongfu or Dengfu frame isn’t likely to appeal to anyone with a bulging bank balance, but may steal the odd sale from someone looking at entry level carbon frames from a more established brand.

Why? It’s the lightest production road bike out there. You can build lighter, but for one of the big brands to do a 10lb road bike is pretty mental.

It’s not the £10k 4.6kg bike I’ve got an issue with. Aside from the fact it’s 2kg too light to race (a moot point to be honest considering privateer racers won’t be buying one), it’s good to see big manufacturers pushing the performance boundaries and questioning the status quo (and proving that 6.8kg is largely an irrelevant number these days for the UCI limit). My issue is with the 2nd and 3rd tier Emonda frames, with claimed weights of 1050g and 1200g respectively… For a bike selling itself as light, those frame weights aren’t light these days for a road bike! I don’t work for KTM, but my “entry level” KTM carbon road bike frame (available in complete bikes for cheaper than any Emonda) is under 1kg in a 55cm size. Without going too far into weight vs stifness vs ride quality etc. the Emonda is being sold as a lightweight climbers bike.

What about the S-Works McLaren Tarmac?

Again, good to see bike companies pushing the performance boundaries. But at what cost? It’s been priced so high on purpose, to make it exclusive and keep demand high. Which is…?

Good Marketing.

I grew up lusting after (and eventually owning) S-Works Specializeds. I’ve owned a couple of Trek’s too from back when they were better VFM. All were good bikes, but by the same token, none of them were really any better than a lot of other bikes I’ve owned. My issue these days is with the assertion by so many (mostly customers as a result of good marketing campaigns) that anything with a Specialized or Trek badge is somehow so much better than any other similarly priced bike. The reality is that there’s many other brands out there, often their bikes are made in the same factories, being sold by much smaller lesser known brands that are plain and simply, better value for money.

How do you feel about Cube, Focus, Felt or any number of other brands that have made a name for themselves over the last decade (in the UK at least), and have wrongly been criticised of using Open Mould frames and/or just not appealing to the fanboi’s?

We’ll have to beg to differ I suspect, but I know that KTM are offering some genuinely good bikes at very attractive prices, often performing at the same level or above similarly priced bikes from Spesh or Trek say. But then I know the same is true of many other brands too.

You are fawning over a bike and saying how incredible they are on the back of a few preview shots. It does sound like you work for them.

I like the look of several of the new range, really appreciate how they’re pushing the boundaries in some areas (mainstream manufacturer using a Pinion Gearbox for instance), and know that the prices will be more competitive than most. By contrast, you’re pretty much the forum’s most open Trek Fanboi, which I don’t have a problem with (even if I don’t understand it) but do question why you’re always so quick to shoot down anyone showing a passion for a brand that’s not Trek.

Each to their own and all that, but I’ve seen too many Project One Madone’s and S-Works Tarmac’s with short, high rise stems, and the bars canted back 20 degrees so their owners can actually ride them to desire one any longer…

Trek make some good bikes, and some bad bikes. The Emonda 10 SLR is impressive – as you say, the 6.8kg is irrelevant for a bike like that, not the target audience. The lower end bikes aren’t crazy light, they’re not pretending to be. Big name brands haven’t offered the best value on lower end road bikes for a long time. Canyon, Rose, Focus, Cube, Boardman are all vastly superior, but I don’t see how that makes the Emonda a triumph of marketing guff? Would I buy their entry level one? No, definitely not. Nor the entry level Madone, Tarmac, Foil, Venge etc.

I get a good deal on Trek bikes, I have a couple and rate them. I wouldn’t go as far as to say I’m the biggest fanboi on here. I don’t think they, as a manufacturer, are any better than anything else. My Superfly frame is heavy, but it was a warranty replacement, so I didn’t have much option! I certainly enjoy the bike, and would recommend one, but I’m not going to post up saying how incredible they are from a couple of photos with no info. Indeed, find me a single thread I’ve created about a Trek bike other than my own? Where the brand is immaterial.

It’s great you love what KTM are doing, there’s no need to be quite so defensive of them. Easy on the superiority complex from ‘working in the trade’ and that too, makes you sound a bit arrogant IMO. Any who, this is getting daft, I’m out.

My issue these days is with the assertion by so many (mostly customers as a result of good marketing campaigns) that anything with a Specialized or Trek badge is somehow so much better than any other similarly priced bike.

I agree with your sentiment, which is in one respect a shame, as my LBS is a Specialized dealer, but when I started to look for a light (8kgs) carbon bike, I did not consider either Trek or Specialized, in fact I actively stayed away from them, as I think brands trying to reestablish or broaden their market offer a better overall package.

My short list included Boardman, Raleigh (if only I could find one), Ridley, Cervelo and KTM.

Oddly, it was marketing that won in the end, as KTM (FLi) were at the Welsh cycle show and Raleigh weren’t, and I was so impressed with the overall quality of the Revelator range, I decided it was the bike for me… and, very importantly, will last me for many years and through many upgrades.

It’s great you love what KTM are doing, there’s no need to be quite so defensive of them. Easy on the superiority complex from ‘working in the trade’ and that too, makes you sound a bit arrogant IMO. Any who, this is getting daft, I’m out.

Was basically my point.

My issue these days is with the assertion by so many (mostly customers as a result of good marketing campaigns) that anything with a Specialized or Trek badge is somehow so much better than any other similarly priced bike.

Does anyone think that though? I think few are that blinkered, they’re terrible value, particularly in the mid range stuff, compared to all the brands I mentioned. Anyone who thinks that is a moron, and truly a sucker of marketing. Not seen any evidence of that here.

I know quite a few “victims” of marketing who wouldn’t dream of riding a Boardman etc.. I have Focus road bike and it’s been flawless, I know own a Boardman 29er and for sheer value and ride quality, nothing touches it price wise. But that’s me, I am not a marketing man’s dream 😀

Does anyone think that though? I think few are that blinkered, they’re terrible value, particularly in the mid range stuff, compared to all the brands I mentioned. Anyone who thinks that is a moron, and truly a sucker of marketing. Not seen any evidence of that here.

If by “here” you mean this forum, I’d largely agree. Most of us on here are passionate about bikes, and by and large, that’s going to make us more savvy customers.

It’s the guys that don’t spend time on forums, or with their heads buried in each and every magazine, which is let’s face it probably still 80-90% of the cycle buying public, that will walk past lesser known brands offering better VFM all too often, because Trek and Specialized are names they know through good marketing. Marketing isn’t just advertising in Magazines, it’s a whole number of things and both Trek and Specialized are exceptionally good at it. They build up Brand Loyalty like nobody else managed to.

Canyon, Rose, Focus, Cube, Boardman are all vastly superior, but I don’t see how that makes the Emonda a triumph of marketing guff? Would I buy their entry level one? No, definitely not. Nor the entry level Madone, Tarmac, Foil, Venge etc.

You’re not the target market though… And for their target market, being able to say that “it’s just like the 4.6kg high end one only cheaper and a bit heavier” sells bikes! Those of us that know it’s all just smoke and mirrors understand the score and will search out something better VFM, but a large proportion won’t.

Oddly, it was marketing that won in the end, as KTM (FLi) were at the Welsh cycle show and Raleigh weren’t, and I was so impressed with the overall quality of the Revelator range, I decided it was the bike for me… and, very importantly, will last me for many years and through many upgrades.

Raleigh are a real Frustration right now in my opinion. They’re making some great bikes again after a while in the duldrums, their pricing is a bit haphazard though (some bikes are good VFM, some a lot less so), and they are doing a very poor job with their marketing IMO. Their Team wins races aboard the Militis road bikes (a bike that’s had some rave reviews) but they don’t capitalise on it. They’re almost exclusively all in very boring colours too, and whilst they focus a lot on their presence at trade shows and selling to the trade, they’re not selling well to the end user. KTM seem to be striking the balance a lot better IMO, as well as making some great bikes. There’s tonnes of other brands too right now, but few seem to get the marketing right as well as the bikes, they’re either exceptional VFM but poorly marketed or trading off a name a la Spesh and Trek largely.

Raleigh are a real Frustration right now in my opinion. They’re making some great bikes again after a while in the duldrums, their pricing is a bit haphazard though (some bikes are good VFM, some a lot less so), and they are doing a very poor job with their marketing IMO. Their Team wins races aboard the Militis road bikes (a bike that’s had some rave reviews) but they don’t capitalise on it.

I spent a long time trying to find the 2013 Militis and eventually e-mailed Raleigh CS to try and find out who had one and where I could see it. Their answer was that they were selling better than anticipated and that the best thing I could do was order one “because we guarantee you’ll really like it” I replied telling them I would not commit a retailer to buy in a £2.5k bike that I may or may not buy.

When the 2014 range was released, I started again, but was equally unsuccessful. Their no show at the Welsh show was enough to convince me that they REALLY don’t want my money.

I spent a long time trying to find the 2013 Militis and eventually e-mailed Raleigh CS to try and find out who had one and where I could see it. Their answer was that they were selling better than anticipated and that the best thing I could do was order one “because we guarantee you’ll really like it” I replied telling them I would not commit a retailer to buy in a £2.5k bike that I may or may not buy.

Rock and a hard place sadly. The Militis is a fantastic bike, and likelihood is you would have bought one, but… You’re absolutely right. You want to see one before you buy. Raleigh dealers are, by and large, selling hybrids, town bikes and entry level mountain bikes, with the occasional entry level road bike thrown in. They’re not likely to have stock of a Militis. I’ve seen a number of Militis in the flesh now, and one of my friends owns one (and says it’s an awesome ride), but even though you’re getting a pro level frame on a bike for little more than the frame only costs, you still want to see one first. I nearly ordered a 105 spec 2014 Militis for myself (would have put 11spd Ultegra on it), what stopped me was thinking about selling it 12 months on… Sad I know, but! I figured the KTM would just be that much easier to sell on at a later date. Bought a Revelator 3300 frameset on its own, and built it up with a mish mash of parts, and it’s a great bike, and owes me quite a bit less than a Militis would have done too even if the frame doesn’t have the pedigree.

It’s sad, but a slight comfort to know I am not the only one frustrated by Raleigh’s lack of ability to get their bikes in front of the public.

I completely understand the retailer not wanting to commit to stock they probably won’t sell, and at one point I even had a brief e-mail back and forth with the local area sales manager, but his promise to let me know when the mid season restock was underway failed to materialise.

Like you, I am delighted with my Revelator, I took the opposite route and bought a complete 105 equipped bike with the plan to upgrade it as I go along, and it is already wearing Dura-Ace1380 wheels, for the summer.

I also picked up a NOS Ultrasport 29’er frame recently, but that’s not yet built, it’s just sitting in the workshop looking all black, orange and shiny.