KP shown the door

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  • KP shown the door
  • dannyh
    Member

    Well, that’s all folks in the Kevin Pietersen saga.

    It’s a real shame. But he is entirely to blame for his predicament after years of trouble making, backstabbing and the like.

    Also be aware anyone who is thinking of joining the pro-KP camp, you’ll be agreeing with Piers Morgan 😕

    Anyway it was time. You cannot ride roughshod over the team ethic so many times and be tolerated. He was instrumental in the removals of two coaches and a captain whilst in the England team, and never showed much contrition.

    I’m sad to see the back of Pietersen the player. I’m glad to see the back of Pietersen the man.

    lucien
    Member

    At the expense of Andy Flower though…… 🙁

    bikebouy
    Member

    Wwwhhhhaaaaaaat???

    Ridiculous !!! 🙄

    dragon
    Member

    Right decision if you ask me, should have been shown the door earlier. If you were in the dressing room after the SA texting incident it would take a lot to trust him as a teammate ever again IMO.

    dannyh
    Member

    If he’d been a club player after the texting incident he’d have been given a clip around the ear by someone and told to find a new club. I’m not sure why an international team setup should be any different.

    As I said, it is a shame. But it is a shame he has been such a nobber for so long that he made it inevitable.

    Bikebuoy. Sorry fella, but it’s a free trip to Piers Morgan’s private sauna for you. You can discuss your blind love of Kevin Pietersen with the great man himself, slapping each other’s bare backs as you bond over your common (but misplaced) love!

    tiggs121
    Member

    Good decision – I reckon if the players were honest and brave enough – they would openly agree with it.

    Team game needs team players. He has proved he can’t be trusted.

    Not a bad hitter of course.

    allthepies
    Member

    The Ego has left the pavilion…

    yossarian
    Member

    It’s going to appear that he is being scapegoated for the humiliation in Australia. The reality is that he should have been cut loose after he was caught texting his saffer mates in the other dressing room. A prize tosser of the highest order, a shit stirrer and egotist. An immensely talented batsman but a deeply flawed individual.

    But….

    If Pietersen’s England career is over then Cook cannot continue as Captain.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Move on and rebuild, I’m sure we will find out what was going on in the next few months as the books come out

    If Pietersen’s England career is over then Cook cannot continue as Captain.

    Why?

    (I don’t follow cricket that closely)

    Scamper
    Member

    Its ironic that in the fall out and arse covering KP has been one of the few to keep relatively quiet. Considering he had a contract until the autumn and wasn’t sacked, will be interesting to see what exactly he was supposed to have done to upset the apple cart in Australia and to have caused Giles and cook to change their mind about him.. Unless a compromise was reached. The Press will certainly be after more details. This reminds me a bit of gower being cut short 20 odd years ago.

    May as well complete the clear out and get rid of cook the captain.

    dannyh
    Member

    Two things about saying Cook has to go………

    Firstly, why? Surely this could prove to be a sign of real leadership.

    Secondly, who could possibly take over?

    Bell has never shown any desire to captain any side (and credit to him for being honest enough not to get pushed into it). Prior is now not 100% to be in the team on merit, plus keeper as captain does not have good precedents. Broad? No way!

    Nope Cook stays.

    yossarian
    Member

    Why?
    (I don’t follow cricket that closely)

    2 reasons IMO.

    Firstly, Cook has presided over a thrashing so severe and so complete that it’s right that he should be scrutinised. His tactics were conservative at best, his field settings defensive and he clearly struggled to motivate and use his players to the best of their abilities. I could live with that if we’d ground out a draw or two, maybe a narrow win and still lost the series. But we just got thrashed in every game.

    Secondly, he clearly cannot control one of his senior players.

    Great batsman but the last tour has found him out. Time to step aside.

    Edit: who replaces him? Why, one of the senior players of course! Ermm……

    dannyh
    Member

    The real problem is that Strauss should still be captain. Oh, hang on a minute, back to KP again! 🙄

    Cook is Hobson’s choice.

    nicko74
    Member

    Thing is, nobody could control Pietersen – it’s not particularly on Cook. Cook’s captaincy and tactics during the Ashes were pretty poor though: critics in particular can hold up his use of Panesar in the 4th Test, for example.

    But a suitable replacement there is not. Prior’s not guaranteed a place, and as above, while Stewart did a pretty good job of being wicket keeper/ batsman/ opener/ captain, it’s a heck of a burden.
    None of the current crop of bowlers really stand out as being able to manage the distraction of captaincy while bowling, either. Which leaves, erm… Joe Root? I guess the only ‘obvious’ choice would be Broad, but as above, not ideal.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Probably the biggest real question is will Trott return, the calming grown up influence on the team was probably the most missed this winter.

    tiggs121
    Member

    What about Ian Bell for captain IF Cook goes? Just a thought – he is a fixture in the team.

    yossarian
    Member

    Why not Broad? He’s got a pair which puts him ahead of Cook IMO!

    Premier Icon muggomagic
    Subscriber

    KP clearly is an arse, but he is also by far England’s best batsman.
    I would expect the captain and coach to be able to manage him for the good of the team. I’m sure they could find 11 bloody nice blokes to pick, but I’d rather we got back to winning ways.

    dannyh
    Member

    Bell does not want, and never has wanted to captain any team, county or country.

    Credit is due to him for being true to himself in this regard.

    So Cook it is. Unless we find a Graeme Smith who can come in and captain from the off. Trouble is, for every Graeme Smith there is a Lee Germon (look it up if you don’t recognise the name).

    dannyh
    Member

    “It is about man-management – however disruptive a player is, you can still try to manage most players. But history tells you with Kevin he hasn’t really got a foot to stand on – whether it be back in Natal or Hampshire or Nottinghamshire, or Peter Moores or Andrew Strauss or Alastair Cook or Andy Flower, wherever he has been he has been a problem.

    From Nasser Hussain (never described as an ‘easy’ individual to manage either), but then his ‘issues’ were always caused by a burning desire to win, not seek glory for himself.

    This was inevitable, it is a shame it wasn’t done a year and a half ago so we would be eighteen months further down the rebuilding process by now……..

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    KP clearly is an arse, but he is also by far England’s best batsman.
    I would expect the captain and coach to be able to manage him for the good of the team. I’m sure they could find 11 bloody nice blokes to pick, but I’d rather we got back to winning ways.

    They have managed him.

    He is one of the older members of the team and would probably be on his way out over the next year or so anyway, there will be new exciting batsmen to follow who if managed right will not be utter arseholes. No one player is bigger than the team and no individual in indispensable. Basic rules of management.

    As with any form of improvement activity it’s easiest to see the need when you are at rock bottom, picking a team to move forward based on potential & form rather than record would be a start. Forming a team ethos based on the team not the individual.

    The contrast of watching this lad come off in Perth having tried to win the unwinable test and looking like he had let the entire team down was a refreshing sight this winter.

    Scamper
    Member

    So is Captain Cook that more difficult to replace than KP the player?

    At least mike has highlighted one, sorry, the only positive from this test winter. 😕

    Premier Icon muggomagic
    Subscriber

    Graeme Swann was saying the other week that he’s been as good as gold since he came back. I know I’d rather sit and watch a game if Pietersen is coming in to bat.

    How many hours ’till zokes wakes up?

    “Whanau”

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    there are plenty of batsmen, there are very few captains.

    It was pointed out by the TMS crew a while back that with the way international cricket works these days (ie a full time job) all the good players go from being promising for their counties/states and then get sucked into the machine and plonked in a team. A chunk of those players would have ended up captaining their sides over a few years and learning how to do it. So now you get a heap of players in the international setup who havn’t done much leadership.

    The aussies have identified this and their current solution (sure it is going in in England) is to identify players who could be captains and send them through leadership training and try and teach what they would have learned on the field. Still no substitute for the real thing but it helps.

    In the short term dropping Cook down the order (there is now a vacancy) may help him to recover some form and take some pressure off him to open and allow him to captain a bit better.

    Edit#

    I know I’d rather sit and watch a game if Pietersen is coming in to bat.

    Yep at least you knew it wasn’t going to last long this time

    dannyh
    Member

    Hmmmmmm.

    Zokes will have to wake up, pull back his KP branded duvet, have a shave in his KP branded (full-length obviously) mirror and decide on a response. 🙂

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    it’s nearly 9am in South Australia he should be around soon….

    On a lighter note I watched a great T20 last night – England weren’t involved

    Will need a bit of TLC, so go easy guys! Could be in a state of shock and grieving.

    dannyh
    Member

    I’d give more than a penny for Andrew Strauss’s thoughts right now.

    I imagine it would be a sigh, a shake of the head and thinking (but not saying or texting or tweeting, note) “I told you so”.

    Premier Icon edhornby
    Subscriber

    I get the feeling that there is a lot more going on that no-one is talking about – elephant in the room for me is the IPL, kev’s probably told them ‘right I’m going to india to play for the entire tournament’ and the response has been ‘see ya, or rather, not’

    I would bet that if you look at his age, the schedule for the next few years then you start to think that his replacement is becoming a priority, and the best way to find someone to take it on is to make the spot permanently available without the previous holder hanging around

    zokes
    Member

    Also be aware anyone who is thinking of joining the pro-KP camp, you’ll be agreeing with Piers Morgan

    Couldn’t give a toss. I’d be agreeing with Michael Vaughn also (who happened to say it first), whose opinion on the English cricket team (and for that matter on KP himself) is worth considerably more…

    He was instrumental in the removals of two coaches and a captain whilst in the England team, and never showed much contrition.

    He was instrumental in winning the ashes four times in six series, also being the top scorer in the two series we didn’t win. He helped England to win the T20 world cup, and achieve number 1 status in all three forms of the game. I couldn’t give a toss whether the team or the management like a player or players. What I do give a toss is whether they win matches. With KP, they did. Lots.

    Zokes will have to wake up, pull back his KP branded duvet, have a shave in his KP branded (full-length obviously) mirror and decide on a response.

    My eight day old daughter is more mature than you. (And I have a beard, so no naked shaving fantasies for you either!)

    Now you’ve got your way. What now? Who’s the next destructive middle order batsman who can take the game away from the opposition? To single handedly remove a bowler from the opposition’s attack?

    When Australia had difficult players, they sacked the management, got someone who could do the job, and had the same difficult players whitewash England within six months. What do England do? Sack the best player they have, and hope that Captain Conservative will come good. It had better work, because Bell and Cook aside, there are no other batsmen in that lineup to routinely worry even the Windies at this stage*

    *Stokes will hopefully go on to be someone to worry any opposition though, even if he’s not good enouigh for our T20 team – another example of our stunning management 🙄

    ask1974
    Member

    Can’t say it’s a surprise but sorry to witness the end of an era, however over the last two years Pertersen has been more a dissapoitment with the bat than anything else. Clearly a disruptive presence in the dressing room but I agree with you Zokes, he was England’s best and has achieved much, but he’s also been a resident, senior player preciding over a huge drop in performance. If you want to re build you don’t do it around disruptive players unless they are still performing. If he had hit a double and a couple of hundreds trying to rescue the team then this might not have happened but even with the best batting figures for the tour he gave away his wicket far too easily.

    If you’re going to make big changes then noes the time to do it, the only way is up from that farce of a tour. Oh and remove Cook? Don’t be silly. Poor tour but he still has a huge amount to give and who exactly would you turn to?

    I wish him luck but look forward to a new England.

    Pigface
    Member

    My eight day old daughter is more mature than you.

    Hope she has a better sense of humour than her dad 😉 congratulations by the way.

    I kind of agree with Zokes he is the best batsman by far, I think the ECB are going to have to wash the linen in public to put an end to the speculation as to why he has gone.

    NUTS!!!

    (IGMC)

    I reckon KP is on the phone to South Africa, “Howzit Biff, score us a spot in the test side, bru”

    dannyh
    Member

    Hi zokes, it was a bit unfair of me to take the piss while you were still in bed, but you have to pay the price for living somewhere where the average temperature is twenty degrees Celsius as opposed to Fahrenheit.

    I would love to see Pietersen being a good team man and contributing to England wins. But even his batting has become a liability as a result of his hubris at the crease. “You can’t bowl to me Peter Siddle, you’re not good enough, and I am going to ignore your silly field settings as well because I’m that goo……… Oh bugger”.

    Whilst he was applying himself a bit at the crease and allowing his undoubted talent to show, he could be tolerated. Nowadays, things have just snowballed to the point where this is a necessary move.

    Are you seriously suggesting that England sack everyone in authority rather than drop one player? Do you have any idea how that would end? And by the way (I’m not being provocative, just asking) have you ever played team sport over an extended period, particularly cricket?

    The reason I ask is that I have. Twenty years man and boy (intentionally trying to sound like a wise but boring veteran). Cricket is particularly bad for dressing room friction as well as there is just so much time for niggles to build up, even more so if one team member is a prick.

    Something major has gone on here. I can’t imagine that Swann, Broad and some other are shrinking violets, yet they have not been publicly axed.

    DrJ
    Member

    I reckon KP is on the phone to South Africa

    Hasn’t he got a mega-contract in India lined up? (not that I know anything about cricket, just something I heard on TV)

    timc
    Member

    He’s not really English anyway…

    Yes. But test cricket is where legends are made, and with his gigantic ego he will want to be in that elite. Compared to his peers that have already made it, he’s still potentially got 5 years left in him at test level.

    zokes
    Member

    Are you seriously suggesting that England sack everyone in authority rather than drop one player?

    No, not at all, but it is excellent management (if perhaps unconventional in this modern, drab, scripted world of sport) that changed the team of no-hopers we laughed out of Lord’s in July to a team that dropped one match in thirteen games across three formats against us. For the tests, all Australian victories occurred after we had been in a potentially match winning position, getting rid of their top batsmen for not many runs.

    Conversely, it’s at best complacent, if not downright negligent management that allowed us to fall so far so quickly. Blaming KP is fine, but as Vaughn says, the management should have been up to the task of managing difficult players, and as the past few months has shown, they weren’t. Interesting, seeing as it’s a task they’d managed quite successfully until the past year or so…

    Cook in particular was completely out-captained by Clarke, and indeed there were a couple of catches that came after KP and a word with the bowler (Broady, IIRC) and shifted a couple of fielders whilst Cook wasn’t watching. Clearly KP as captain has been tried once already, but appointing him VC would have meant that his experience and ego was used to the best possible outcome. The team of “yes men” clearly isn’t working.

    Ultimately, the biggest loser here is the England cricket supporter.

    (And for the record, no, I haven’t played a team sport at any remotely high level. In fact, the last time I played cricket, it was an unwritten rule that you had to field whilst holding your beer! However, I work in a professional, high performing team at work. When you’re being paid to perform at a high level, whether you’re playing cricket or researching science makes no difference in how you manage difficult team members to get more than the sum of the parts. Recently, the ECB have failed spectacularly in this endeavour).

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    but as Vaughn says, the management should have been up to the task of managing difficult player

    By perhaps throwing his kit over the balcony? (See Notts 2004)

    Best years are behind him and he’s failing to adapt to that fact. Let him go to India. Can’t remember the last century he scored, and there are more than a few England players with better one day average scores in the last year

    Premier Icon TPTcruiser
    Subscriber

    Well if KP is set aside I hope they are going to have a full clear out. No one should assume to be safe, including Cook and the management structure that was outclassed. The collective know how of the side plus the various coaches plus the whole of the English media could not get Brad Haddin out.
    I am with Vaughan on most of this, though he didn’t seem to have a plan for Haddin either.
    Broad captain, Cook out until he can score runs, pick on form from the start of the season. If you are going to select a leggie go for Rashid rather than a player still learning their trade – older spinners tend to get better results. Monty is still playing grade cricket to learn more and develop his game, the remainder of the Test team are at home, trying to forget the last four months?

    Well zokes, your experience and belief runs contrary to the ethos of the All Blacks who have a track record of outstanding performance sustained over time. They would not tolerate KPs antics, pure and simple.

    But that is only one approach. Of course, there are other successful teams that are able to incorporate the mavericks and indeed English cricket had a captain who was a master of that in Brearley. But as time has shown, captains of that calibre are few and far between.

    But I have sympathy with your/MVs criticism of the management team. If you chose to pick a maverick then you have to be able to manage him. All this talk of KP needed to adapt is/was bollocks in my mind. He is what he is, for better for worse. A moulded KP is not KP, it is a weak imitation of the real thing. If you are going to incorporate a maverick you need counter-balances elswhere. The management team where unable to provide this and as a result individuals, the team and the supporters suffered. Ultimately the buck stops there IMO.

    I was chatting to an ex-England and an ex-country cricketers on the football touch line yesterday. Both admitted that KP was a **** with the former saying that he would still have him in the national team but both saying he was disliked widely at the county level. The latter concluded, the only good thing was that he was less of a **** than a certain opinionated pundit who was a **** with a capital *!!!

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