Last saturday, couldn't believe the amount of folks without helmets, I've never seen it so bad. One guy on the final descent on the red with his daughter, about 5 or 6,on a tag-along with none on either.

Braindead.

Braindead

they soon will be …..

I bet they were all fine too.

I bet they were all fine too.

No, some were quite ugly.

Darwin* had a point

*Actually, one might argue that Charles Lyell was the man with the point, but let's not get in to that.

Very silly…

**** ijots

Perhaps they had read all the available evidence, and, having not found anything conclusive, simply decided to ride within their limits, like everyone did before the rise of polystyrene cycle hats?

…ride within their limits…

I love this expression. It's as if the word 'accident' doesn't, or hasn't ever, existed.

An accident could happen to you anywhere though, The worst head injury I've ever suffered happenend while hitting my head on my microwave oven door. I should of course wear a lid while preparing dinner in a particularly gnarly way? 🙂

*shrugs shoulders*

It is, after all, your choice – and, as you say, you have to draw the line somewhere. I've replaced my Giro Hex twice now, using the crash replacement policy, after it has sacrificed itself by absorbing the impact twice – and as far I was concerned I was 'riding within my limits'.

I did the Megavalanche and didn't hit my head once, therefore I didn't need to wear a helmet? 😛

See what happens when you're not ready for it…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8332641.stm

clearly body armour is necessary for walking in city centres?

🙄

you could always just email TJ direct, you know

Sorry, it is indeed personal choice, its just I think most people overestimate how much protection the average so-called helmet provides- I once had a brand new Giro pneumo ( worn for racing only) that broke in two after being knocked off a 5ft high cupboard shelf. If that happened while wearing it I'd be claiming it saved my life etc.

Well I went over the bars and landed on my head, badly enough to hurt my neck/shoulder pretty badly, and cracked my Giro Hex in a few places. I think I could well have been seriously hurt without it – I still think it's up to the individual person and people should stop being so bloody judgemental.

Thing is, head injuries seem to be really nasty – much nastier than a broken arm or cracked rib.

Friend of mine came off _with_ a crash helmet and landed on his head. Four months on and he's riding once a month where before he was out several times a week.

few years back was coming down the red bull top of descent load of lidless blokes, set off down and one of them was hot on my heels
but i dropped him halfway down
waited at the bottom for my mates and the guy came down with a big gash on his head and arm saying he nearly caught me but crashed
we suggested to these guys that wearing a helmet was a good thing but they were all squaddies who knew better despite all the blood

My point really is that, in the sort of accident that may result in a life-changing injury, no cycle helmet on the market will make a difference. Most cycle helmets offer less protection than a construction hat or a(horse)riding hat.
I see riders going way beyond the design limits of the best motorcycle helmets, but they think they are safe because of an inch or so of polystyrene.
I should say however, that I dont critisise anyone for their choice,and a helmet will certainly fend off low vegetation, but think that people should be realistic about why they are wearing one.

TJ to the soapbox, TJ to the soapbox

west kipper have you ever gone otb and landed on your head at speed
i have 3 times

split helmet each time once was at slower speed but fell about 12 feet of some north shore

without a lid certain id have been a lot more messed up

im not even talking about dh crashes with my full face

waited at the bottom for my mates and the guy came down with a big gash on his head and arm saying he nearly caught me but crashed

So he was ok then? 🙂

yeah he was grinning like a mad man but had a big gash above his eye, id have been a bit more concerned if it was me

west kipper have you ever gone otb and landed on your head at speed
i have 3 times

Me too but I would suggest that people mincing down red routes at trail centres are probably unlikely to do this.

Despite not being exactly well known for my handling skills, Kimbers, I seem to have less crashes than most of my helmet-nazi riding buddies. I know people get irritated when the words 'Risk compensation' are used but…

yeah thats my point if you aint lidded up you cant ride on the edge, …………. dude

And my point is that a red route is hardly the edge 🙂

not for us hardened pros, obviously, but for newbies

It's not really a personal choice, you should also think of your family who will be left to wipe your arse when you're a veg.

I'd never drive the car without a seatbelt on or use an angle grinder without goggles etc. I'ts common sense.

you should also think of your family who will be left to wipe your arse when you're a veg.

Don't go mountain biking then.

I'd never drive the car without a seatbelt on

Many fatal car accidents are caused by head injuries, why don't you wear a helmet in the car? OMG that's so selfish! 😛

We are all exposing ourselves to different degrees of risk all the time, the extent to which you accept them or try and mitigate them is often not done on a very logical basis, and is entirely up to the individual imo.

Hello? does everyone know everyone else?

Biscuit? cup of tea?

Now can I remember this.

Pro choice:

Helmets are less effective than any think
head injuries are rare
risk compensation is a factor to consider. There is good eveidence that helmet wearing increases accident rates
Adults can make an evaluation of risk and decide on levels of protection required.
Just because you don't agree with my point of view does not mean I am stupid.

Pro compulsion

You are stupid not to wear a helmet
My helmet saved my life
Non helmet wearers are organ donors

Ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I really think this has been done to death on here. did I miss any points?

Totally personal preference – nobody else's business what you do

but……….. in the OP he mentioned that there was a small girl on a tag-a-long without a helmet
Her father/mother is negligent IMO & should think about it a bit more

having a child lid-less on a tag-along is far less negligent than letting kids sit on a sofa eating crap all day, give them a break )

I would say it's a bit daft especially for the kid as isn't there evidence young people don't have as strong craniums or something. But still, fair play to them for getting out there

having a child lid-less on a tag-along is far less negligent than letting kids sit on a sofa eating crap all day

Indeed.

Lots of people would say that any form of mountain biking is madness, with a helmet or not.

TJ, you missed out the point that –
In cycling, you can buy 800 gram road frames that "will turn you into a climbing god!".
You can buy legal supplements that are "the next best thing to EPO!"
Wheels that are "invisible to the wind!"
In amongst all this hyperbole whats the boldest claim made by a helmet maker?- "it looks cool" or "its well ventilated" which kind of shows that Giro, Bell and the rest are a bit more realistic.

ive come off more than once where i have landed on my bonce, and have been in no doubt in the post crash review, that without the lid i would have been either going home in a bag, or pissing in a bag for the rest of my life

no doubt at all.

each to thier own.

I've replaced my Giro Hex twice now, using the crash replacement policy, after it has sacrificed itself by absorbing the impact twice – and as far I was concerned I was 'riding within my limits'.

I would suggest YOU need to wear a helmet as you clearly have no idea where your limit is or how to fall off a bike without hitting your head 😆

Olly, fair enough, but EVERYONE seems to have a similar story to yours,Yet if even 5% of these turned out to be true, there would be some statistical reduction in injuries. Despite less people cycling,there isnt.

Fair do's, we'll agree to disagree.

All the best.