my nan fought (in the war) and died (whilst i was being held down by a fat scottish bloke) for your right to say that GrahamS

She must have made an amazing recovery for you to be visiting her in hospital then 🙂

Why was the other thread closed then?

cos of the same arguments that are starting to develop on this one 🙁 which i hope the mods will remember i started this before the other one was closed not in response to the other one being closed.

do you get a ban if you start a thread that gets locked? 🙂

It was put down because that was the kindest thing for it and the posters on it.

Won’t somebody think of the posters?

No, but you get locked if you start a ban that gets threaded.

Of course the winking smily makes it ok to say what you like doen’t it.

You do appear to be a little wound up.

Taken from the East Midlands Trains website “Fare evasion costs the rail industry £200 million a year”
How much would our train tickets cost us if that figure was reduced?

Last year, there were just under 1.4 billion rail journeys. So the answer is about 14p less.

Your previous argument about speeding isn’t really relevant, as I cant see that if I sped by 1mph that it costs other road users anything?

Speeding poses an increased risk to other road users, and is illegal.

FWIW I think Phil deserves a ban for starting this deliberately provocative thread 🙂

i haven’t been banned for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaages, not since the pole dancing video of my friend.

the mods let me say BOOBIES and everything now, cos i pay their wages 😆

Fare evasion costs the rail industry £200 million a year”

That money could be spent on safer level crossings. Won’t someone think of the children.

Waiting for the Big Man to eject mr consequence from the forum… OFF!!!! 🙂

I can’t believe this actually happened.

I seem to recall last time I took the train, you get the two tickets, one out the other back..
So either you showed him the wrong ticket.

Or this is just a wind up.

ohh what time saturday mr whoppy?

Dunno mate, you’re the organiser. When’s the next one?

Phil – you got a link to that pole video? I need to show the Mrs.

you can’t touchban me, thats assault

EDIT – that was ages ago yeti, she just put up some more photos and is teaching but think she’s based mainly out in south africa now. have sent her a message asking for a link to the vid for you

ahhh i thought you were going to be down there this saturday mr whoppy! not organising another one til the sun comes out again 😀

innapropriate Speeding poses an increased risk to other road users

FTFY

I’m quite impressed that we managed to have a 1304 post thread about religion without any major falling out or banning, but only managed 72 posts about fare dodging before it went nuclear 😀

Be proud!

clearly it’s the posters not the subject. 8)

Some of the posters!

Speeding can actually save lives.

FTFY

Speeding is always illegal and always poses an increased risk to yourself and to other road users.

It’s interesting that minor illegal activity you commit is ok, but minor illegal activity committed by someone else is beyond the pale.

It’s interesting that minor illegal activity you commit is ok, but minor illegal activity committed by someone else is beyond the pale.

It’s not the activity – it’s the attitude and follow up.

Here’s a little test: do some modest speeding and when stopped by a traffic officer try being calm, polite, reasonable and apologetic.

Now repeat the test, but this time try shouting and swearing at the officer, refusing to get out of the car and asking him what he’s gonnae dae abit it.

I’m pretty sure you’ll find that the second scenario lands you in the back of a police van more often than the first.

Is that fair?

I never said that speeding is ok, but the general attitude to speeding is wrong. Innapropriate speed is far more dangerous than just exceeding the speed limit. I can show you plenty of roads that legally you could do 60mph, but you wouldn’t consider doing 30mph on them. Also if you’re on the M40 a 2pm on a clear dry summers day with an empty road is it inherently MORE dangerous to do 90mph than do 70mph (assuming the car is in a good state of repair etc)? Why?
Im not suggesting that speeding is right, but rather than just driving at the speed limit people should consider what is THEIR safe speed.
Also I assume you’ve NEVER broken the speed limit ever?
Fare evasion is theft, plain and simple. Are you suggesting that shop lifting is therefore also minor and its ok to turn a blind eye to that as well??

is it inherently MORE dangerous to do 90mph than do 70mph (assuming the car is in a good state of repair etc)? Why?

Yes. Of course. If anything goes wrong, it’s inherently more dangerous because you’re going faster. Any car can get a puncture for example. You’re also more out of step with the traffic speed-wise than if you’re doing 70 (at least when I drive on m’ways, the average seems to be 75-80mph). You’ve also got less time to react if anyone in front of you does something stupid…

Of course, the sensible question is how significant is that difference in danger?

Here’s a little test: do some modest speeding and when stopped by a traffic officer try being calm, polite, reasonable and apologetic.

Your test wouldn’t work, for the simple reason that no traffic officer would ever stop you for exceeding the limit by 1mph. Which kinda proves my point about one kind of minor infringement being socially acceptable, but another is not. In any case, the analogy is a false one because a ticket inspector is not a policeman.

Innapropriate speed is far more dangerous than just exceeding the speed limit.

As I’ve never argued otherwise, is there any point to your comment?

Also if you’re on the M40 a 2pm on a clear dry summers day with an empty road is it inherently MORE dangerous to do 90mph than do 70mph (assuming the car is in a good state of repair etc)? Why?

Yes. Did you not pay attention in physics lessons?

Also I assume you’ve NEVER broken the speed limit ever?

Why would you assume that?

Fare evasion is theft, plain and simple. Are you suggesting that shop lifting is therefore also minor and its ok to turn a blind eye to that as well??

In the midst of your frothing indignation, you seem to have missed that I proposed a course of action: phone the transport police and let them deal with it. Perhaps you could explain how that is turning a blind eye?

Show me a car that has a speedometer thats accurate to 1mph first. The speed limit cannot be enforced with a 1mph accuracy because nobody’s speedo is that accurate. Hence why most cars manuals have accurate to +/- n% mph in there somewhere.

Show me a car that has a speedometer thats accurate to 1mph first. The speed limit cannot be enforced with a 1mph accuracy because nobody’s speedo is that accurate. Hence why most cars manuals have accurate to +/- n% mph in there somewhere.

By law, speedometers must not under read. Therefore, the speed limit can quite easily enforced to 1mph. In any case, ignorance is no defence.

innapropriate Speeding poses an increased risk to other road users

I think someone might be taking the pee

“Fare evasion costs the rail industry £200 million a year”

How does someone sitting on a train cost the industry money?

In the midst of your frothing indignation, you seem to have missed that I proposed a course of action: phone the transport police and let them deal with it. Perhaps you could explain how that is turning a blind eye?

Whilst not wanting to get into any pointless debate on the hypocrisy or merits of law-braking, I suspect phoning up the transport police may be as effective as phoning up the regular police if you see someone speeding.
One of the possible advantages of direct action is that the more people that publicly intervene (in a proportionate manner) on whatever crime is being committed then maybe people might be less willing to commit it the crime in the first place as it no longer comes with complicit acceptance of their surrounding peers.

I don’t think it had even been established that the OP was attempting to evade fare before the vigilante decided to administer justice in the form of common assault.

Rich – hope you dont think i’m being serious? its still technically assault but you’re correct, its not exactly being picked up by your neck and thrown over a table.

I did realise that you weren’t actually the bloke in the youtube clip 😉

It would appear the fare dodger is about 19/20 and a bit of a numbnut, (gets drunk and wants to fight with everyone).So it probably won’t be the first or last time he meets a big man

“Fare evasion costs the rail industry £200 million a year”

How does someone sitting on a train cost the industry money?

Because they have mass.

How does someone sitting on a train cost the industry money?

Because they have mass.

Well no wonder you get the Protestant / Catholic frictions!

But actuall, I doubt the extra weight would account for the ‘loss’

IanMunro – Member
Whilst not wanting to get into any pointless debate on the hypocrisy or merits of law-braking, I suspect phoning up the transport police may be as effective as phoning up the regular police if you see someone speeding.
One of the possible advantages of direct action is that the more people that publicly intervene (in a proportionate manner) on whatever crime is being committed then maybe people might be less willing to commit it the crime in the first place as it no longer comes with complicit acceptance of their surrounding peers.

This.

Analysis of behaviours during the recent riots looting spree indicated that many of the culprits decided just to “go for it” as the police were seen to be completely ineffective, partly because they didn’t have the numbers to stop, charge. arrest, detain all of the looters. In the one or two areas where the local shopkeepers made it clear they would deal sternly with any transgressions, the looters knew to keep well away.

I don’t think it had even been established that the OP was attempting to evade fare before the vigilante decided to administer justice in the form of common assault.

He was trying to pass off a Single in the other direction as a valid ticket.

I suppose that could have been a genuine mistake – but his attitude rather suggested otherwise.

After that he claimed he didn’t have any money to buy a ticket, so he was asked to leave the train. (bear in mind this exchange had obviously been going on long enough for someone to start filming it).

The “vigilante” asked if the ticket inspector needed a hand then assisted the lad off the train with a light physical warning.

I didn’t see anything I’d personally consider “assault”.

CharlieMungus – Member
How does someone sitting on a train cost the industry money?

You make a very good point. As the trains have to go back and forth anyway, all passengers should just be allowed to get on and off for free.

Edit: I’ve just realised that wouldn’t work as someone has to pay for the train service.

How about the very first person to get on the train has to pay the cost of the whole journey and everyone else gets it free?

Not free!! Elfin and Ransos will be along presently to tell us we should buy tickets for them as its the only civilised response.