joint and other supplements again – snake oil or…. ?

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  • joint and other supplements again – snake oil or…. ?
  • Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    As far as I’m concerned O3 is the only supplement worth taking unless you have a genuine medical need/deficiency. Interesting that you don’t mention it as an anti-inflammatory as AFAIK this is one of its main benefits (by reducing your overall O6/O3 ratio). Of course you can get O3 from cod liver oil which is a lot cheaper than all these “designer” joint care medicines, etc.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12442909

    No substitute for a healthy diet of course!

    The Omega 3 ‘may’ be good in general

    Well it’s essential in order to live, so I guess that counts as “good” in the same way oxygen does ๐Ÿ˜€ but do you need more of it? Depends on your O6/O3 ratio but probably.

    Keva
    Member

    having suffered from tight calf muscles for about the last four or five years I’ve found magnesium oil really does help. Recommended to me by my physio I apply it to my calfs each morning after riding to work and can feel it working pretty much straight away.

    http://ukcyclesport.com/bike-gear/item/698-better-you-magnesium-oil-spray

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    I take a fair few of these, at age 47 with hypermobile joints and some knee and back op issues. I am coming round to the belief that I’d be better spening the money on bike bits. Here’s a selection of what I found in the cupboard this morning :

    Chondromax
    MSM
    Rose Hip
    Omega 3
    Retinex

    Now the first 3 ‘may’ aid joint aches/be anti-inflammatory

    The Omega 3 ‘may’ be good in general, and the Retinex ‘may’ be good for eye health (I am quite short sighted with a family history of glaucoma)

    I don’t take them all regularly and seriosly wonder whether I should replace any of tehm when they run out – thoughts ?

    Thanks

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    interesting so far, thanks. zilog, maybe I didn’t word it ideally, you are quite correct re O3.

    Some lunchtime googling finds little in the way of clinical evidence to support the majority of the cupboard contents as regular supplements to a balanced diet…..ponders…..

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    I’m currently reviewing my supplement regime. The reason for this is being sure of the quality and that there aren’t large amounts of fillers etc.

    We don’t know how efficiently our body works and whether it absorbs all the nutrients from food.

    As an example, for donkeys years I’ve cycled in daylight at least twice a week. I had my vit D tested and it was very low.

    Now take a vid D supplement, have been retested and got it higher but not hugely. Now looking at the ingredients.

    I would not go without my glucosamine for example.

    Awaits the naysayers and STW cynical mob. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    Some lunchtime googling finds little in the way of clinical evidence to support the majority of the cupboard contents as regular supplements to a balanced diet…..ponders…..

    I think you’re probably right. I used to spend money on supplements, vitamins, etc. Now I just spend it on plenty of fresh fruit/veg/meat/fish (and bike bits!) instead.

    If you look at the supplements critically, how do you know that those particular ones, specifically, are what you/your body needs? Can you even be certain about the bioavailability of whatever is in the supplements?

    EDIT on seeing above post. I do actually take vit D supplement during the winter as well. Looking at the weather outside I think I’ll have to start up again!

    hora
    Member

    I take glucosamine and cold liver oil.

    When I’m 60 I don’t want to think back ‘could I be in better shape now if I hadn’t been so cynical about taking glucosamine and cold liver oil?

    I’d rather take the risk and take the stuff. IT wont kill me if it is largely snake oil whereas doing nowt will be detrimental…

    baby
    Member

    I’m a huge advocate of trying to get all my vitamins and nutrients from actual food. Call me crazy but it seems to work.

    Vitamin supplements are by and large a good way of getting expensive urine.

    kudos100
    Member

    I take omega 3, Magnesium and Vit D3, plus a couple for mental health. I used to take a load of supplements, but was never sure if they did much.

    These 3 have a tangible effect and have lots of empirical evidence to back them up.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    hora – I have been of much the same opinion as you (on this matter only ๐Ÿ™‚ ) for years. Just this week though I was looking at the svarious supplements I have and totting up the monthly/annual cost of it. A lot of reports allude to even the reputable suppliers being quiete unregulated in the content and quality, and whether the dosing makes any contribution.

    Oh, another one I forgot – Cherry Active capsules

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    I’m probably coming at it from a different angle due to a health condition that I’ve got for life.

    If you talk about food then I’m not convinced we get as much as we need. As an example, vegetables. Many people overcook these thus losing the nutrients.

    Understand what you’re saying but, from my current experience, dealing with health issues resembles a jigsaw. I’ve spent a fair amount of money on testing so have an idea of what’s needed.

    I do however feel that decent quality food is important. With regard to meat, I mainly buy organic but eat less of it due to the expense. In an ideal world I’d grow my own veg, probably have a few chickens too.

    The food industry has a lot to answer for.

    hora
    Member

    I’m a huge advocate of trying to get all my vitamins and nutrients from actual food. Call me crazy but it seems to work.

    TOTALLY agree however you wouldn’t be getting a balanced diet if you were loading up on the stuff that helps joints.

    At a push I only take cod liver oil as its cheap as chips. Why start taking it later when its too late?

    Glucosamine tabs are very expensive- when my current run out I’ll stick with the cod liver oil.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    There’s an article in one of the roadie comics this month which seems remarkably accurate. The main ones for me are

    D3 (+K) – lots of evidence to suggest that in northern lats, we don’t get enough of this and it can be associated with all sorts of nasties
    B12 – less evidence
    Omega 3 from oily fish, milled flax / linseed and fish oil as an anti-inflammatory

    Not a supplement, but I’d add meditation to the mix too.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Subscriber

    B12 – less evidence

    Good excuse to eat Marmite though!

    surfer
    Member

    Glucosamine tabs are very expensive-

    Not really investigated this thoroughly but it became popular with a lot of distance runners a number of years ago that I was training with. I never heard anything positive even amongst those who persevered for years.
    All anecdotal of course.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    lot sof good info, thanks. CG – appreciate you have looked at this from perspective of sorting exiting issues rather than perhaps preventative, or just easing some aches.

    Think I’ll run the stock down and then put the ยฃ20 or whatever a month in a jar for a while !

    joemarshall
    Member

    I’d rather take the risk and take the stuff. IT wont kill me if it is largely snake oil whereas doing nowt will be detrimental…

    That was roughly the idea that people had in the past when they took large doses of vitamin C, supplemented with vitamin E etc.

    But it is rubbish, because it is not that these things are either snake oil that does nothing or positive; there are three possibilities what they do to your body can be either a)positive, b)nothing, or c)negative.

    For example, in the case of vitamin supplements and particularly in the case of large vitamin C doses, they’ve in a few studies shown a correlation to quite increased mortality rates, more cancer, that sort of bad stuff. And the same studies have failed to demonstrate any health benefits.

    Worth a read:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/07/the-vitamin-myth-why-we-think-we-need-supplements/277947/

    hora
    Member

    fine, however within the same timescales why hasn’t Codliver oil been held up to be a sham/detrimental or does it take longer for Codliver oil to ‘come out’? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Saying this- pollution etc etc I doubt it’ll be ‘as good’ in the future for us.

    baby
    Member

    Pretty sure I read that CLO should be taken with caution for certain sections of the population.

    Do sardines etc not provide sufficient Omega-3?

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Do sardines etc not provide sufficient Omega-3?

    Yes they do, but not everyone can stomach them – I love ’em though ๐Ÿ™‚

    Premier Icon stever
    Subscriber

    I think we’ve corresponded before Iain – I’m theoretically hypermobile (though tight as a drum in some parts) and have had all sorts of joint problems. I’ve used glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin and green mussel lips (or something), but don’t bother now. I even wore one of those stupid copper bands for a while. I feel pretty good mostly, I think because of the tediously simple reasonable diet (slightly too much to drink), more sleep, exercise, and less stress.

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    stever – we have, yes I think. Interesting and encouraging that no negatives from stopping them, I reckon I’ll do same and see if any change.

    I tried the green lipped mussell things years ago, but the smell was overpowering !

    sleep, diet, stress, booze could all do with some rationalisation; thankfully I get a load of riding and swimming in..

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    Not really investigated this thoroughly but it became popular with a lot of distance runners a number of years ago that I was training with. I never heard anything positive even amongst those who persevered for years.

    I found the opposite in my running club! I honestly believe that 1500mcg glucosamine cured my aches and pains the day after. At one time I was running 6 days a week.

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    Can I just mention vitamin B12 where deficiency is often missed. More info here:

    Home

    hora
    Member

    Cgirl…

    Plenty of marmite? ๐Ÿ™‚

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