A Christmas Day board game took an unusual twist when the topic fictional characters popped up.
My sister in law had written down Jesus Christ.
Massive family argument ensues…

Can people point me to some balanced views either way?

Ooof

A fictional representation of a real person is perfectly common and doesn’t necessarily call into question the existence of the individual on which that representation is based or intended to parody.

Good answer. I couldn’t resist saying a VERY fictional representation but that wouldn’t help

real as hes on Twitter

https://twitter.com/ThatBloke_Jesus?s=09

I think it shows a lack of common sense and social skills. Does she always put her foot in it like that?

I wonder what ever happened to that old Yamaha he had. 🤔

We had the same scenario years ago. Ours was with the names stuck to your forehead.

The person who wrote it believed he was fictional like father Christmas and the person with jesus on their head was a church going Catholic.

In my opinion, the evidence is there that he existed. The real question is did he do all the stuff mentioned in the bible?

I’m an ancient aliens fan so Ill leave it there. 🤣

I’m reminded of this piece from The Onion.

On the balance of probabilities Jesus was a real person, born about 4BC and died about 33AD and was crucified.

He was Jewish scholar and religious leader, was tried by a Jewish council who turned him over the to the Romans for judgment.

There’s a lot less evidence to prove the accounts in the gospels, and they were mostly written 50 years or so after his Death, but had been changed continually since, partly because of translators own interpretations of older texts and often by people in power to suit their own ends. But they have never been ‘sold’ as being his words or ‘Gods’.

So, IMHO not Fictional. He’s a bit like Andy McNab (forgetting for a moment that’s not his real name) real person, but the Bible is probably about as accurate at Bravo Two Zero.

I’m an ancient aliens fan so Ill leave it there

At least there can at least be a debate about whether JC existed, so the Christians are one up already.

the Bible is probably about as accurate at Bravo Two Zero.

i quote like that as a quote.

Can people point me to some balanced views either way?

LMAO. Good luck with that.

I wonder what ever happened to that old Yamaha he had.

Superstar…until he hit that slick

Have a look at Richard Carrier on youtube. If anyone knows then he knows.

Probably a real person, just not all he’s claimed to be.

God would be a fictional character though.

I suspect he was real but his achievements were massively inflated. Like many stories of olden days, they are based on a fact but the story is embellished.

Think there is a Jesus mentioned by a Roman historian (Josephus, History of the Jews?) written about 70AD, which ties in with one of the posts above. Both Jewish and Muslim texts refer to him as being a prophet of theirs, so it seems likely there was a real person upon whom the whole Bible thing got pinned.

If you want to wander down some blind alleys, I think he is mentioned in the Gnostic gospels, the ones the Catholic church decided not to include in the Bible, but you end up popping up in the Da Vinci Code 😄

they are based on a fact but the story is embellished.

Yes, for example the truth was a nice bloke turned up with some bread and fish and shared them around with a few people.

Given that there is no contemporaneous evidence for the existence of JC and as mentioned above the first mention is 35 years after his “death” I’d go with he’s a fictional character.

Can people point me to some balanced views either way?

Can’t you just Google it for yourself?

50 years or so after his Death, but had been changed continually since, partly because of translators own interpretations of older texts and often by people in power to suit their own ends. But they have never been ‘sold’ as being his words or ‘Gods’.

I believe it’s closer to 30 years & that the texts have changed by a very small percentage since they were written. Luke’s gospel was specifically written to detail Jesus ministry through investigation of eyewitness reports

Yes, for example the truth was a nice bloke turned up with some bread and fish and shared them around with a few people.

Pity he didn’t teach them to fish, they’d have been set up for life then.

I wonder what ever happened to that old Yamaha he had. 🤔

Nah, he rode a Street Triple with a loud exhaust.

There’s nothing in the actual historic record from the time (which are extensive) indicating an actual person existed.

The whole shebang of christianity can be traced back to sun god worship. The vast majority of the really good bits (virgin birth, death, resurrection) can be found on hieroglyphs inside the pyramids of Egypt – so about 2500 years beforehand. (Which is why many previously devout christian egyptologists abandoned their faith).

If you’re looking for “balance” you cannot get it when people’s belief is bound up so tightly in it. – Remember: believing is a verb – something you do – which is “thinking something is one way, despite evidence to the contrary”.

There’s overwhelming evidence that all of the religions of the world are a crock of made up shit. Made up shit that make people feel good, maybe, but made up shit nonetheless. Not least christianity – the origins of which can be clearly traced back many more years before Zero AD than we are past it.

I’d personally feel secure in the knowledge that your family member is correct, that christianity is dying out in the civilized west (whilst the catholic church continues to forbid condom use in devote AIDS-riddled parts of Africa, resulting in untold suffering (including baby-rape)) and that we’re beginning to emerge from this fog of violent, misogynist idiocy.

But you’ll believe what you want either way. 🙂

Jesus was a real person, born about 4BC

Seems like he was ahead of himself.

Can people point me to some balanced views either way?

Jesus Christ the son of god is the figment of people’s imagination. Wither someone called Jesus Christ actually lived at that time isn’t relevant to anything.

Massive family argument ensues…

So you’d thought you’d share the love by starting one here lol

OP did you all manage to patch up your differences or were you all left with simmering resentment?

There’s nothing in the actual historic record from the time (which are extensive) indicating an actual person existed.

Really? Other than the Bible i thought there is little surviving today from that period. Do you have any references which are relevant to first century Jewish/Roman/other around Israel?

Jesus Christ fictional?

Doesn’t matter either way.

It’s the message that’s the important bit, not the messenger.

Oh he existed. He was crucified by the Romans. He was a dude, whatever you believe. Give me a a better role model, ever ?

@perchypanther
I’d agree with that if only christians would.

I don’t think there’s much in the teachings of Jesus that any reasonable person could disagree with. However, all the ‘virgin birth’, ‘eating the (literal) body of christ’, ‘ascension into heaven’, ‘walking on water’, ‘feeding 5000 with a few fish’, stuff means that it does matter. I believe in being kind to my fellow humans (except Crystal Palace supporters), resurrection, damnation for virtuous pagans, original sin, not so much.

@Loughan
There are extensive historical records for that period. some of them even mention Jesus – though probably not as many as you’d expect for someone who caused so much fuss. There’s a good list here: https://reasonsforjesus.com/a-list-of-extra-biblical-sources-for-the-historical-jesus/of non-biblical mentions of Jesus

lol @ ‘easily’ link – “Ooops… Error 404
Sorry, but the page you are looking for doesn’t exist.”

!!!
God moves in mysterious ways. I’ll try again:

… nope, nothing at all this time.

Well there we have it ladies and gentlemen – we finally have proof.

One more try:

A List Of Extra-Biblical Sources For The Historical Jesus

“First name?”- “Jesus.”
“Surname?”- “Christ.”
“Oh come on, really!”
“Nah just kidding, it’s Josephson”

My understanding is that he’s the son of Santa Claus so I guess it depends what your stance is on him.

I think it shows a lack of common sense and social skills. Does she always put her foot in it like that

Or she was bored of the game and pretty clever and knew what she was doing 😉 By throwing that in there and causing an argument its either going to bring the game to an end or provide some good entertainment so win win situation 😂

It’s the message that’s the important bit, not the messenger