Ok,Jeremy Forrest has been found guilty of abducting a 15 year old girl and taking her to France ,which most of us probably knew .She apparently has applied for visiting orders to see him in jail.
If they end up as a couple in say 5 years time do you still view him as a child abuser or not ?

Not followed the court case but as they’ve not done him for sex with a minor it looks like they have mitigated to some degree.

At the end of the day he took someones daughter without their consent and put he parents through hell.

He should have known better as an adult.

I agree with you its an abuse of position as a teacher (or any other adult)with a child but if it turns out to be genuine love do we still see him in the same light.
I can see their story in one of those crap womens magazines in a few years (take a break or chat)about how she waited for him and they now have kids and how tough it was .

He had a duty of care to his pupils. He is intelligent enough and old enough to know that breaking that trust has consequences for all concerned. He will now suffer for his stupidity.

If they end up as a couple in say 5 years time do you still view him as a child abuser or not ?

What happens with them in the future holds nothing to what happened recently. If Stuart Hall had had a relationship with his victims when they were 20 not 9 anymore would should we have forgiven him?

I think he is stupid rather than a chid abuser, very very very stupid.

Probably a fair comment Pigface.

genuine love

Or he’s very good at grooming.

He had a duty of care to his pupils. He is intelligent enough and old enough to know that breaking that trust has consequences for all concerned. He will now suffer for his stupidity.

This is a generous view IMO.

He was the adult she was the minor. He should not have had such an intimate relationship with the girl and he shouldn’t have fled the country with her, if he was worried about her safety he should have gone to the authorities.

i can come at this with a little family experience..

my aunt ‘ran away’ with her RE teacher when she was 14.. they have been happily married for 65 years..

Drac – Moderator

What happens with them in the future holds nothing to what happened recently. If Stuart Hall had had a relationship with his victims when they were 20 not 9 anymore would should we have forgiven him?

Shades of grey IMO – sex with a 15 year old in the context of a relationship is not the same as a 9 year old.

Very stupid of him but not everyone can handle their feelings.

Shades of grey IMO – sex with a 15 year old in the context of a relationship is not the same as a 9 year old.

Context maybe but not as the laws stand. If precedence is set that it’s Ok as long as when the victim is older you have a relationship then that’s the excuse people could use.

As A-A aluded to,we teachers have a different view of people who do this,and not just because they cast a hint of suspiscion on all of us. In a nutshell, you are responsible (along with others) for the child’s development and education,this is now recognised by law. Ouite rightly so as teachers can be a huge influence on young people.He has used this for his own sordid ends,the relationship started when she was 14,I can’t see how that can be anything other than grooming, which to me is a fair bit away from the star crossed lovers idea.

I think he is stupid, but I doubt the daughter was in any danger.

I’m not convinced he abducted her – looks to me like she went to France of her own free will.

However he is clearly guilty of having sex with a minor/child rape, but as any prosecution would be his word against hers, and she clearly wasn’t going to testify against him, I guess ‘child abduction’ was the best they could hope for? (as it didn’t require any input from her)

He did cross lots of lines, and certainly deserves a lengthy stay in ‘the big house’ for his actions.

They clearly intend to resume the ‘relationship’ when he is released from jail, which can only be bad for her..
Bit of a sad story all round really – I’d be keen to have a chat with him at some point if she was my daughter.

Freeagent he is guilty of child abduction simples he took her away from parental responsibility absolute offence his defence was utter bol***s! He abused his position of trust as a teacher, he should not have put himself in the position to end up in a sexual relationship with her additionally she was vulnerable eating disorders, self harming etc! How is that not grooming??

It must have been horrific for her parents not knowing where she was for over a week and thinking she would end up dead. Admittedly prison isn’t probably the right sentence but who knows what really is!?

girls of her age (14yo) should be protected from men of his age ++ the fact that he was in a position of authority, yup throw the book at him, hopefully she will have the chance to put it all behind her & move on, in the remote possibility that it does work of for them, then bonne chance to them.

He’s a teacher, she was his pupil AND was fourteen years old when they began their relationship.

Regardless of whether they remain a couple when he’s out of jail or not, he’s behaved unethically and he’s broken the law. There is a code of conduct for teachers for a very sound reason.

How would any of you feel if you were a parent of the girl in question?

Context maybe but not as the laws stand

Under 14 it is an absolute offence over 14 it is not so context ois recognised in law ie 15 year old in same year with 16 year old versus 15 year old with 55 year old internet groomer..the law will respond differently and the main issue here is that he was her teacher [ and his greater age]

he is guilty of child abduction

He may be guilty but it did not mean he did it.
How many “abduction” victims apologises to the person as they get sent down? She went of her own free will though she may have not been young enough to consent but I don’t really think it is abduction tbh

I think he is stupid, but I doubt the daughter was in any danger.

THIS

They clearly intend to resume the ‘relationship’ when he is released from jail, which can only be bad for her..

Yes having the person you love sent down because of your love and your actions is clearly in her best interests and long term welfare…that and being told it is wrong over and over again.
I agree with the teachers over the line he crossed and he must pay a price for that

Problem is no one can [ to some degree] help who they fall in love with and this is what seems to have happened here.
I also know a teacher who married a pupil of his – they both maintain nothing happened when she was a pupil but they were dating as soon as she left about 25 years ago. Married with grown up kids still.

We can all get morally outraged [ of course I can see why] but there will be another case in about 5 years and then another and then another. I am not convinced they are all monsters and they are all groomers though I would not want to encourage it

I am not sure that turning both of these people into criminals has helped either of them or protected society

He is over twice her age and she was under the age of consent! As far as I know teachers are not allowed to have a sexual relationship with anyone under the age of 18 (even though age of consent is 16), that is not just limited to those who they teach!

He was in a position of trust and he abused it!

I am a teacher, and thankfully my grey hair now precludes any crushes, but when I first entered the profession there were a couple of occasions when i thought a student might be developing a crush, I went straight to the tutor/head of year, reported my concerns and ensured I was never in a position which could be misconstrued by the student. At all times I knew that this was a child who had developed a crush towards an authority figure, who was an adult and my job was to make sure she came to realise the fact it was inappropriate as soon as possible!

I think most teachers have had to deal with student crushes at some point or another, and we deal with it in a caring, professional way, we don’t end up grooming an under age child into having sex!

Sod the liberal view

This dude is a paedo and if I caught him with either of my daughters I’d kick his bloody head in.

ooh, the latest internet-hard-man / parent-fearing-the-red-top-headlines-will-be-him-next gives up any attempt at analysing the issue.

Thank **** not many people like you are in power.

Drac – Moderator
Shades of grey IMO – sex with a 15 year old in the context of a relationship is not the same as a 9 year old.
Context maybe but not as the laws stand. If precedence is set that it’s Ok as long as when the victim is older you have a relationship then that’s the excuse people could use.

Did I say it was OK? I just said it was different – which as I understand it is reflected in sentencing?

I think the abduction verdict is wrong – she went with him under her own will.

If the girl was saying ‘he made me believe he loved me but I knew it was wrong, I didn’t really want to go to France’ it would be different, but she isn’t. She clearly went to France under her own free will, and slept with him happily.

15, even 14 is not unusual for girls to become (very) active sexually and the black and white 16yr old line of the law is totally unrepresentative of the massive difference in maturity of teenagers. As a note, one of my close friends met her husband when she was 14 and he was 25, they are happily married and the relationship is as strong now, 21 years later.

This is getting so much press coverage, and yet when 15 yr old girls are coerced into sex by 15 yr old boys (which, lets be honest happens ALL THE TIME) even when they don’t want it/aren’t ready for it, no-one really bats an eyelid.

We need to give young ladies the courage to say ‘no, this is who I am and I’m not ready’. However, even with the best education, I’m betting that lass would have still made the same decision. You can’t help who you fall in love with, and you can’t stop young girls growing up.

Oh, and just to add to the debate…..in many countries in the world she would have been more than old enough to be married and would have to subject to every demand of her husband/have children. This rarely gets press coverage. Is that right? Because it happens in another country we have to turn a blind eye? Because it’s an established ‘cultural belief’ we have to ignore it? I think not – from a female perspective I think it’s tragic that a young girl in love will be denied the chance to fulfil the relationship because of an arbitrary age cut-off point……but I feel it far more tragic that millions of girls never even get the chance to feel true love and are forced into abusive relationships that last their entire lives whilst the rest of the world looks on.

Problem is no one can [ to some degree] help who they fall in love with and this is what seems to have happened here.

Sorry but that is complete and utter rot. He is a teacher, she is a child in his trust. Phil40 above details exactly what should happen. I wouldn’t class him as a paedo but I find it very difficult to disagree with the sentiments of the second half of djglovers rather controversial statement.

He is an idiot who has probably lost everything. Can’t think his wife will have him back and hopefully the girl will get her head sorted in his enforced absence.

Did I say it was OK? I just said it was different – which as I understand it is reflected in sentencing?

No but I didn’t claim you did. It is reflected in the sentencing but my point is still the same, whatever they choose to do in the future is irrelevant it’s what has happened recently that matters.

An interesting case, and one I think that is quite finely balanced.

On the one hand he has been an idiot at best, and one who has put his own gratification above the laws of the land and his marriage. The fact that he declined to take part in his own defence is IMHO a sign that he knew what he was doing was wrong, with his plea of not guilty a sign that he wasn’t prepared to confront what he had done.

On the other hand, she seems to have been rather mature for her years, possibly looking to escape a less than happy home life. She told the court that she had decided to leave, and if he did not join her she would harm herself/commit suicide. She also told the court that the police had manipulated her evidence and that they had been threatening to her when what she said did not match the narrative they had written of “nonce abducts kiddie”.

I half expected him to get off ( not knowing that he had declined to give evidence) and was surprised by the quick guilty verdict. I would not be surprised if there was an appeal and he overturned that verdict.

I think he is stupid rather than a chid abuser, very very very stupid

+1 but probably had mental health issues as well.

Doesn’t look like any malice in his intent.

EDIT: also littlegirlbunny +1000

I think he is stupid rather than a chid abuser, very very very stupid.

I firmly see him as a child abuser. Also, if in 5years?

Sorry I wouldn’t trust him anywhere near a school-age girl in the future.

Its wrong on quite a few levels. Impressionable, imature school girls have crushes, grown men can take advantage. Am I on a different plain to some of the above?

as the law stands he is guilty of child abduction, it doesn’t matter that she consented to go away with him, the law states he had taken her away from her parental responsibility, there will be no appeal as he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. This is also why the jury found him guilty so blinking quickly! Also if he felt so strongly about his innocence why would you not take the stand and give evidence? probably because he realised he was screwed.

As phil the teacher says above. “you can’t help who you fall in love with” what a load of drivel! when you’re a 30 year old teacher and she’s a 14 years old kid you can…..

Its wrong on quite a few levels. Impressionable, imature school girls have crushes, grown men can take advantage. Am I on a different plain to some of the above?

Possibly, but what if he was the impressionable one with issues and she drove the whole thing? Still technically illegal, and yes he should have know better, but I wouldn’t call him a child abuser.

Remembering back to Uni. We were in a Uni club and a mate was chatting to a girl. Her mate (I wasn’t angling for her/just being friendly)- said casually ‘guess how old we are’? I replied ‘dunno 18’? (assuming why they were in there etc/must be students). ‘Heres my bus pass’ – She was 15. I remember thinking erm no. Firmly so.

Thats when I was a teenager.

but what if he was the impressionable one with issues and she drove the whole thing?

I’m really confused now. Are you saying he has learning difficulties?

Mental issues as in depression etc?

I don’t understand how someone can go through education, go through interviews, go into a role and then say they have personal issues why they started shagging a 14yr old child? How can a 14yr old manipulate an adult.

Beyond me.

I’m out. I don’t get the angle that feels any sort of empathy or even pity for him.

The emotional language “impressionable, immature, 14 year old kid” doesn’t help. We don’t know for sure she was any of these. In many countries she’d be considered an adult.

Personally I see it wrong on the level of student:teacher relationship well over stepping the bounds. I’d be concerned about a 30 year old and 14 year old, but not enough to brand the bloke a “peado”. These kind of relationships can work (as above in this thread) if both are willing to take it slowly, not do anything silly (as what happened here) and generally keep with the bounds of social acceptability I don’t really see a problem.

If a student and teacher develop mutual feelings then I think removing that part of the relationship would be the best course of action. Why he didn’t quit his job when he knew things were likely to progress I don’t know. At least then they could’ve had a fair chance. Doubt that’ll happen now.

Ok at what age would you class someone a Paedo?

Lets say the boy is an 18yr old. Some countries (including our own) class an 18yr old male a man.

Sorry- I went to school, there were the odd girls and boys who were mature for their age (15/16yr olds) but that was mature in our eyes at that age. Don’t mistake maturity with intelligence. A child isn’t worldly, wise and mature.

In some countries? Sorry are we now selectively selecting the laws and customs from other countries/cultures and apply to our own laws as we sit fit?

14yr olds can be sex mad. Why not let them be sexmad with someone of a similar age to them.

This dude is a paedo

Except, he’s not, is he. Paedophiles are attracted to prepubescent children, not fifteen year old girls.

He’s guilty of a lot of things, primarily an abuse of trust. He took advantage of a position of power / authority with a girl half his age, and that makes him either an idiot or a scumbag. But not a paedo.

Not that I’m jumping to defend him, but this isn’t the Daily Mail.

paedophile
Web definitions
pedophile: an adult who is sexually attracted to children.
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Legal definition of a child

NSPCC factsheet

Our factsheet looks at the legal definition of ‘child’ in the UK in various contexts, including child protection guidance, sexual offences, criminal responsibility and parental consent.

Knock yourself out.

this isn’t the Daily Mail.

This needs to be in big letters across the page 😆

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Kay_Letourneau

this isn’t the Daily Mail.

Slightly creepy though that male posters are somehow reducing what he did to ‘her’ being abit more than a schoolchild who was groomed by an adult to part-guilty-party.

Knock yourself out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29