Unelected advisors are certainly playing a central role in taking back control of UK democracy.

While I’m also inclined to agree on the unified front thing, it’s conference – if you can’t say what you think there, where can you say it?

I’m sure Seamas will soon tell everyone what to think and that’ll clear everything up.

Interestingly I read somewhere that the reason everything’s gone a bit more smoothly recently has been because Seamus has been on an extended ‘holiday’, which has allowed John McD, Thornberry and Starmer to work on Jezza over the summer.

Also, the combined union position seems to be exactly that… and not just something pushed by “Len”. That still doesn’t mean that members and MPs shouldn’t have a say before the policy cooked up behind closed doors is presented as settled, and anyone deviating from it silenced.

I’ve also read that in more than one place Daz.

Just confirms what has been obvious for a while about the whole ‘bunker mentality’ and which member of the ‘team’ is the most confrontational, controlling and completely closed to the idea of compromise.

I hope this is the sign of things to come and not a temporary blip.

The fact is that Dominic Cummings and Seamas Milne are two cheeks of the same arse

Not very similar at all. Except that both are perhaps trusted too much on strategy by party leaders. They have very different aims and means.

Even Polly Toynbee has come around to Corbyn’s set up. There will be some concerns in Waitrose car park.

The horrible reality of Boris Johnson as PM, who’s exceeding even the very worse predictions, with a psychopath pulling his strings, and the ERG charging towards the cliff edge, has certainly focussed minds

Corbyn is still shit. But right now he’s by far the least shit realistic option, and the clock is ticking…

Johnson has helped Corbyn look like a PM in waiting, when they are in Parliament. The sooner PMQs get going again… the better.

Really?

This, from chair of Parliamentary Labour Party, is most significant response to Lansman’s coup to abolish post of Labour deputy leader and turf @tom_watson into the wilderness. It shows yawning gulf between Labour’s ruling NEC and its MPs. If there is to be break up of Labour… https://t.co/YzxGa88DD5

— Robert Peston (@Peston) September 20, 2019

Why pick now to have a party purge?

Distraction, Kimbers.

Jeremy Corbyn has now got the lowest net satisfaction score for any leader of the Opposition Ipsos MORI has ever recorded pic.twitter.com/dUBH43uCm0

— Ben Page, Ipsos MORI (@benatipsosmori) September 20, 2019

Wanting to bring a divided country together is a noble thing but today’s @IpsosMORI poll shows:

– 77% of Brits think Corbyn doing a ‘bad job’ handling Brexit

– 48% of Labour voters say the same (34% say he’s doing a good job)

– Lib Dems taking 1 in 5 Labour votes from 2017 https://t.co/B5ZZfMoJ3W

— Keiran Pedley (@keiranpedley) September 20, 2019

Long game…

Why pick now to have a party purge?

Because they don’t want to go into an election with Watson constantly undermining everything.

It will be voted on.

Whereas the Tories booted 21 MPs without any sort of democratic process …

Jess Phillips showing up just in time this weekend for the Sunday Times magazine.

She’s really not much of a self-publicist is she? What the hell good does this do for Labour?

Is this all part of Jeremy’s quest to ‘restore democracy to the party’?

As long as everyone carries on agreeing with me then you can have all the democracy you like, comrades.

I wonder who’s next to be airbrushed out of the politburo photographs?

Nice to see the focus is on the most pressing issues of the day though. I suppose that’s what happens when everything’s just ticking over nicely…

It’s not just Phillips though, is it @rone. This action seems to have sprung loads of MPs into vocal and fervent condemnation of what’s going on in their party.

That aged well binners.

This ‘restoring democracy to the party’ lark is going well, isn’t it?

Looks like Jeremy is now out of the loop and Len, Jon, Karie and Seamus don’t even bother to consult him (or anyone else) any more before they announce what party policy is this week 😂

It’s not about Corbyn, it’s about what happens after him.

This is a good read.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/21/bankers-corbyn-tories-no-deal-capitalism-radical-government

I normally stay away from these threads, but watching the news over the last couple of days, I couldn’t help but notice that Corbyn and Boris both seem to be saying the same damn thing; let’s have an election, then we can persuade the EU to come back with a better offer.
What better offer! Christ, we had May, and now Johnstone and Corbyn all bleating on about a better offer, and all the time the EU has been repeating the same thing – there is no better offer!
Or am I missing something really obvious here? 😖

🦄

Dazh where are you?

Corbyn isn’t only claiming he can come back with an “offer” better than the current Withdrawal Agreement, but that he can deliver a Brexit that will make us better off than if we remained in the EU. Bold claim. Vague on the details. Sounds like a unicorn to me. Will this week at conference be about backing his ‘plan’ to get a ‘deal’, and then recommend it to the country… or will members actually get a vote on what policy should be? Place your bets…

https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2019/sep/22/uk-could-be-better-off-outside-eu-says-corbyn-video

So what is this “agreement with the EU” that can make us better off outside the EU?

Anyone?

Going to be a fun packed week.

I’m beginning to think Corbyn is being funded by the Tories, no one can surely be as incompetent as he appears to be, it must be a deliberate attempt to make Labour unelectable.

Lifelong Brexiteer re-affirms his commitment to Brexit isn’t really news, is it?

The red unicorns do seem to be getting more and more fantastical though

Will this week at conference be about backing his ‘plan’ to get a ‘deal’, and then recommend it to the country… or will members actually get a vote on what policy should be?

As usual, the ‘leadership’ are doing everything to avoid any actual debate and stifle any dissent. Apparently Brexit policy will be discussed at some future special conference, not now. There definitely won’t be a vote as Corbyn’s views don’t reflect Labour MPs, members or voters opinions. Something he knows full well

Its getting difficult to see what’s satire any more

I’m sure the Lib Dems vote will be increasing day-on-day through the course of the week as Labour Brexit policy becomes even more laughable

I’ve attached the important sections of the composite motion that goes to Labour conference this afternoon and would commit Labour to “campaign energetically for Remain”. Almost as important is that it seems to put Labour on the side of Dublin and the EU in defending the backstop pic.twitter.com/yGe8T5sYti

— Robert Peston (@Peston) September 23, 2019

I’ve watched the Andrew Marr interview this morning (I’m at home, dying of cat Aids *) and 2 things struck me.

1. Because he (Corbyn) doesn’t do interviews, when they do get him to turn up, they have a bunch of stuff they want to ask, about which Corbyn then gets exasperated about, because for him this is old news, and he wants to talk about other newer stuff, and;

2. Because he doesn’t do TV enough, he’s really really bad at it, and folk like Marr just run rings around him.

*The bad sort

Count
You are missing that without May’s red lines a much better deal is available

Still stupid and damaging mind you

On todays conference agenda – Corbyn and his cabal are presently getting the union block vote of McClusky et al to block the overwhelmingly pro-remain members motion for Labour to campaign for remain in any second referendum.

That’s ‘restoring democratic power to the membership’, apparently

Yes, astonishing that while watching the Tories squabble in public for the last three years, The lesson Labour appear to have taken on board is that rather than presenting a clear policy that 99.9% of the membership can get behind and are desperate for, or looking at all competent, have chosen instead, to copy the Tories and attempt an inept bit of score settling, letting the person who organised their successful election strategy of 2017 go and at the same time write a coruscating attack on the leadership, and mount a conference stitch up.

Slow Hand clap….

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/22/corbyn-on-collision-course-with-labour-members-over-brexit?CMP=fb_gu&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1569219795

One irony of all this is the deathgrip command and control Blair was able exert over the Labour party – and the unions were just as left wing back then as they are now – compared with current leadership.

Always amusing to see the hysteria whipped up by a labour party conference. The trouble is that unlike other parties, labour use the conference as a key element of their democratic decision making process. That means they end up debating issues, disagreeing with eachother, and yes it also unfortunately provides a platform for some to pursue their grievances. The end result is a field day for the media who can prattle on about a ‘party at war’, and their critics who can easily use it against them. If it was up to me I’d cancel the whole thing and move decision making to a more transparent forum with direct democracy exercised online.

And on Tom Watson, the misguided attempt to remove him can be explained by the simple fact that he’s a king size **** who for two years has been acting as shadow leader in waiting rather than deputy leader. He simply hasn’t done his job, and the labour party has suffered massively because of it. I’m only amazed it took them this long to try to get rid of him, and that’s why it was a bit stupid as you rarely win a battle fought out of desperation. Are we forgetting that as recently as 3 weeks ago, when labour had successfully defeated Boris, exposed Swinson for the fraud she is, and had a solid platform to prevent no deal, Watson decided to stick his oar in to remind everyone of his leadership ambitions by undermining everything they’d done in the past month.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the week. I’m sure it will provide a lot more gossip (which is essentially all politics is these days), and it will be completely forgotten about by the time the election comes round.

More from Guardian…

Composite 14 on Brexit. This is the composite motion backing the leadership position although, unlike the NEC statement, it does not say explicitly that the decision on the party’s stance in a referendum should be postponed. It just says Jeremy Corbyn has made the way forward “abundantly clear” by backing a public vote.

Labour accepts that all three motions could be passed – even though the NEC statement and composite 13 are contradictory.
Today’s votes will not automatically determine Labour’s position at the next election, officials admit. The decision as to what goes into the manifesto will be taken nearer the time at a clause V meeting, where the NEC, the shadow cabinet and union leaders will agree the text of the document

So it looks like today’s votes are not binding and contradictory motions could pass.

The trouble is that unlike other parties, labour use the conference as a key element of their democratic decision making process.

Which other parties? Because, other than the Conservative Party (and Brexit non-Party), other party conferences are used for exactly that role, and the members (well, attendees) have far more say over what is debated and voted on.

As for Watson. No fan. But you have to wonder what Labour policy would have been at this point without him. All other shadow cabinet members who called for a referendum with a Remain option were fired. He only wasn’t because he is elected not appointed. Has he been a thorn in the arse of the leader and his team? Absolutely. And I for one thank him for it.

Its also a bit rich lecturing other people on internal party democracy when the leadership is dependent on union block votes to outvote the membership who’s wishes it clearly opposes.

Doesn’t look like that is going to work now, BTW, as Unison is saying it will vote with the membership against Corbyns preposterous ‘neutral’ Red Unicorns Brexit position.

So we’ll have the sight to look forward to of Grandad reading out his support for campaigning for remain like he’s in an ISIS hostage video stating that his captors are treating him well.

As for Watson, they can get rid of him any time they like. All it takes is the support of 20% of the parties MP’s to trigger a ballot. Ever stopped to think why that hasn’t happened? Because Corbyn would never get the support of 20% of his own MP’s to do it. That’s why.

Again… championing internal party Democracy? Only when it suits, eh?

Doesn’t look like that is going to work now, BTW as Unison is saying it will vote wit the membership against Corbyns preposterous ‘neutral’ Brexit position.

Binners you’ve just contradicted yourself in two sentences. How can Corbyn be ‘using’ the unions to repress democracy if they then go and vote against him?

So we’ll have the sight to look forward to of Grandad reading out his support for campaigning for remain like he’s in an ISIS hostage

It’s no secret that Corbyn is pro-brexit, and yes it would be much easier if he wasn’t. But he is, and to go back on that now would look pretty silly. It’s perfectly possible for him to play the Harold Wilson role, the rest of them will campaign how they want, probably remain like McDonnell, Thornberry, Starmer et al. Watson no doubt will continue campaigning for himself.

Binners you’ve just contradicted yourself in two sentences. How can Corbyn be ‘using’ the unions to repress democracy if they then go and vote against him?

Daz – I’m merely pointing out that the Labour party is not some one-member-one-vote beacon of democracy. The union block vote can out-vote the membership. And that is precisely what Corbyn is trying to get them to do.

Corbyn and his goons have been leaning heavily on the unions to support their position, against the wishes of the membership. They can always rely on anti-EU, 70’s-throwback dinosaurs like Len McClusky, but it seems more forward-thinking and less reactionary unions aren’t playing ball as their memberships are increasingly pro-remain. As are Len McClucky’s. Not that you’d know it.

Whichever way you try and slice it, Corbyn is in direct contradiction with the opinions of most of the labour membership, its MP’s and its voters over Brexit, and is pulling all kinds of stunts so his Brexity view prevails over their pro-remain one.

And thats how party democracy works, Corbyn-style, apparently

Corbyns preposterous ‘neutral’ Red Unicorns Brexit position.

There’s nothing preposterous about the policy of staying neutral over a deal or remain ref.

It’s the most bit of sense we’ve heard on Brexit for 3 years.