Viewing 40 posts - 19,201 through 19,240 (of 21,377 total)
  • Jeremy Corbyn
  • tjagain
    Full Member

    Oh look Binners – a bunch of your favourite labour right wingers want to vote for mays deal now

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/14/labour-bloc-plans-radical-move-to-push-through-brexit-deal

    But of course its all corbyns fault!

    They go along with the other deluded bunch who voted with the tories to stop parliament gaining control of proceedings to prevent no deal against the labour whip

    But its all Corbyns fault

    kelvin
    Full Member

    “I am ready to adapt our offer should the UK red lines change,” Barnier said in a speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs in Brussels. “Our objective has always been to find an agreement with the UK, not against.”

    TJ, you really need to bring yourself up to date. Using ancient quotes when referring to the current situation is odd.

    No mention of any commitment to remain

    That letter from Corbyn… all good in my opinion. Enough for me to vote for Labour in my seat at that election. I don’t need Labour to back a Remain option, just offer it to the public in a vote.

    Still think this ends with us leaving with No Deal in May, with a freshly elected Conservative Brexit government. That further extension will just bolster support for them, sadly.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Apart from that is still thr situation. Want to stay in the CU and / Or the single market we can. Its been one of the EUs consistent positions all along. Change the red lines get a different deal

    I know the truth does not appeal to you Corbyn haters but its good to put a few bits and pieces in there

    tjagain
    Full Member

    What about all those labour idiots like Kinnoch Junior – an arch blairite – who now swant to vote for Mays deal? What about those 18 labour mps who voted against taking control of proceedings to stop no deal against the labour whip

    No – irrelevant surely as its all Corbyns fault

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Apart from that is still thr situation. Want to stay in the CU and / Or the single market we can.

    You think the SM & CU options are still on the table… either in UK politics or on the EU side? I hope you’re right, but nothing much points to that being the case.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    What about all those labour idiots like Kinnoch Junior – an arch blairite – who now swant to vote for Mays deal?

    Kinnock has been pushing for leaving the EU consistently since the referendum.

    This feels like the wrong thread.

    rone
    Full Member

    Ooh look Corbyn is not in his magic garden or making magic mushrooms or playing draughts, darts or dominos …

    Jeremy Corbyn urges opposition leaders and Tory rebels to help oust PM

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/14/jeremy-corbyn-urges-opposition-leaders-and-tory-rebels-to-help-oust-pm

    Guardian need to be careful they are starting to look a bit anti-centrist magic dad.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    This feels like the wrong thread.

    Well its consisted of endless pages of whining about him and brexit so why cut it short now?
    Now to see how many moderates and centrists are more interested, like Binners, in their hate of Corbyn than trying to stop brexit.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I meant the discussion about Kinnock and others looking to find a way of getting a deal pushed through. Oh, are they “moderates and centrists”, or “Labour right wingers”, or are those tags just for people calling for the public to have a final say?

    Anyway, unlike Binners, I welcome the Corbyn letter.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Oh, are they “moderates and centrists”, or “Labour right wingers” or are those tags just for people calling for the public to have a final say?

    Well I am sure most of those who believe themselves to be centrists have disowned them but yes they fall in that camp. Also I would have thought its worth noting them here since its a nice clear sign that Labour has equally strong divisions which makes it hard to go all out remain.

    olddog
    Full Member

    Corbyn’s letter will force the issue now. Opposition parties will need to support or come up with an alternative. If Swinson says they will support but not if Corbyn leads would look churlish, would she risk no deal for the sake of 2 weeks of Corbyn PM with defined objectives

    Labour leavers like Kinnock and Nandy will prob fall in line with Labour Whip as a 2nd ref better than no deal. And I imagine not falling in line would be a career limiting move

    The odd Kate Hoey aside I think the opposition parties will wear the offer, maybe holding their noses – it will be down to how many Tory rebels will support it and effectively resigning as MPs as they will booted out by the Tory party before the next GE

    kelvin
    Full Member

    Neither Corbyn’s suitability to stay on as Leader, or the issue of allowing the public a final say on Brexit, are purely about “centrists” vs those on the left. Far from it. Hope that simplicity will be dropped now.

    Clive Lewis is an example of an MP definitely on the left who has kept a clear and critical voice on Brexit. You can criticise the leadership without having to be a right winger seeking to undo what Corbyn has done in terms of moving policy to the left on other issues.

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Hope that simplicity will be dropped now.

    Whereas I hope your patronising tone will disappear. I suspect we will both be disappointed.

    You can criticise the leadership without having to be a right winge

    I have never said otherwise so I am not sure why you feel you are enlightening me.
    I specifically stated that it was a question of how many centrists eg not all would have their hatred of Corbyn overrule everything else.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    When every criticism of Brexit or Corbyn no longer results in angry cries of “centrist”, or “moderate” or whatever yellow Tory uncaring elite label is de rigour at the time, my tone will probably get softer. Dropping those kind of “down with outsiders” type attacks will also be a vote winner, I would guess.

    dazh
    Full Member

    No mention of any commitment to remain

    You just said above you’d accept May’s dealto avoid a no deal. Yet now Corbyn is proposing a way to avoid no deal it’s no good?

    dazh
    Full Member

    Watching newsnight and the Lib-Dems are flatly refusing to work with Labour. Political posturing of the highest order. Do they want to avoid a no deal or not?

    sootyandjim
    Free Member

    Watching newsnight and the Lib-Dems are flatly refusing to work with Labour.

    Of course they are. Corbyn is pushing for a GE, one in which many of the Lib Dems recently-acquired MPs would likely lose their seats.

    The likes of Chukka Unumma are terrified of the prospect of being held accountable to their constituents and more worryingly (to them) losing their spot in the limelight.

    Sadly Swinson’s ‘Tory-lite’ party will, if they continue to refuse to work with Labour, both help usher in a No Deal Brexit whilst at the same time pretending they were doing all they could to prevent it, no doubt gaining the support of many political illiterates such as ‘binners’ in a post-Brexit Britain.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    LibDems need to take Tory seats in that election… and their chances of doing so will be reduced if they are seen to jump at the chance to make Corbyn PM. Much negotiation will be required… (and is happening). Watch Tom Watson carefully now…

    kelvin
    Full Member

    For what it’s worth, I suspect Wollaston will win her seat… and I wouldn’t completely rule out Umunna either… I have family in his seat, and they and others voted for him despite him being Labour, not because he was… he looked quite apart from the Labour Party at the last election already… his support might also hold up (but I doubt it).

    sootyandjim
    Free Member

    LibDems need to take Tory seats in that election… and their chances of doing so will be reduced if they are seen to jump at the chance to make Corbyn PM.

    Rather than thinking about their own petty party aspirations should they not primarily be concerned with their stated main goal, avoiding a No Deal Brexit?

    As it is though, given the support for Brexit within the Conservative held constituencies how likely do you really think it would be that the Lib Dems could take voters from them?

    The Lib Dems are a spent force in UK politics. They’ve only managed to remain in the news by snapping up turncoat MPs and by fooling some in the press and public at large into thinking they’re the only anti-Brexit party. Perhaps its time for them to make amends for their Tory-enabling treachery and support Corbyn in preventing a No Deal Brexit? Yes, along the way they will lose some of their MPs in a GE, but according to Lib Dem supporters on here Brexit is the only game in town at the moment, so shouldn’t that be the priority?

    kelvin
    Full Member

    As it is though, given the support for Brexit within the Conservative held constituencies how likely do you really think it would be that the Lib Dems could take voters from them?

    Check all the election results this year, and compare to Tory seats where the LibDems tend to come second at general elections. Come back when you have. You might even be pleased if you take a look at Jacob Rees-Mogg‘s seat. If you think the upcoming election will suddenly become binary Conservative/Labour nationwide, you might be surprised. Especially if the Greens, LibDems & PC stand aside for each other in key seats.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    fooling some in the press and public at large into thinking they’re the only anti-Brexit party

    This made me chuckle, being in this thread.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Kinnoch is clearly on the right of Labour. He always has been.

    You have committed Brexiteers like HOey on the right and Stringer on the left. You have right wing labour like Kinnoch scared of their own shadow who want brexit because they are scared of racists in their constituencies

    There is around 70 labour MPs who believe in Brexit for a variety of reasons.

    But its all corbyns fault – that weird man Corbyn who according to some on here simultaneously is completely incompetent and also a Machiavellian genius who has total control over the party

    dissonance
    Full Member

    Dropping those kind of “down with outsiders” type attacks will also be a vote winner, I would guess.

    Yeah? maybe that policy should be adopted by some others then? Just a thought.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    If you think the upcoming election will suddenly become binary Conservative/Labour nationwide, you might be surprised. Especially if the Greens, LibDems & PC stand aside for each other in key seats.

    I’ll bet Lib dems end up with under 20 seats, Swinson will lose hers and they are the 4th or even 5th largest party.

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    More Labour buffoonery with regards to Obi-wans comments on Indy2, exactly the same as the Tories, haven’t a clue what they’re Northern branch want.

    It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad, I can never see any way back for Labour in Scotland, and I never thought I’d ever hear that said a few years ago.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    I agree with you on that Eatthepudding. Unfortunately their antics in Holyrood and the actions of Murphy during the independence referendum led them to this.
    If labour in England are out of step with their voters in Scotland they are on a differnt planet to their ( now lost) supporters

    I used to vote labour but no longer due to those two issues

    binners
    Full Member

    Listening to Rebecca Long Bailey questioned on Today, one word kept being repeated regarding what happens in the long term…

    “If..”

    Seems like everything, as usual, comes with caveats to the caveats

    Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    I agree with you on that Eatthepudding

    I’ll give you 5 minutes to retract that slur, otherwise I’ll call you a bounder and a cad!.

    mrlebowski
    Free Member

    It’s an interesting move – potentially..

    A man whose life long political stance has been anti-EU is now “offering” a chance to remain?

    It does rather open things up…..(maybe he’s worn a smooth spot on that fence so he’s no longer getting splinters in his @rse)

    Is he genuinely putting country before party? Or rather his own principles….?

    Or is it just more political double speak?…

    Time will tell!

    perchypanther
    Free Member

    Should have been Eatthebreid.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Why the hell are they still trotting out some minor shadow minister to field major national interviews about this?

    Corbyn is trying to put himself forward as the candidate to lead a broad coalition of MPs to form a government at a moment of national crisis, stop no deal and immediately fight an election.

    If he is serious, then he needs to take every opportunity to get in front of the cameras and make his arguments, forcefully.

    Boris and co are busy electioneering all summer. They know what’s coming. Does Labour really have to wait for an election to be called to even finalise a manifesto? Surely that places them at an immediate and massive disadvanatage, when their policies need to be crystal clear now, not four weeks before the poll?

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Sorry no beer. I am a bit dim this morning – more dim than usual. I abase myself. *touches forelock*

    tjagain
    Full Member

    Its the same position the labour party has had for a long time now.

    CaptainFlashheart
    Free Member

    then he needs to take every opportunity to get in front of the cameras and make his arguments, forcefully.

    *whispers*
    He’s not very good at it, especially when pushed a little in an interview. Could be because he’s not terriblynbright, could be because he’s and angry placard waver at heart. Who knows.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I suppose you’re right… many of us want a Labour leader front and centre… but if he is kept in the background because he simply is not up to the job, or at least appears that way if having to ask the questions that journalists should be asking him… perhaps they are right to keep him in hiding and avoiding scrutiny. Replacing him seems a more obvious approach to me though.

    mrlebowski
    Free Member

    Replacing him seems a more obvious approach to me though.

    This.

    JC is unpalatable to too many – hence why the LDs don’t want to deal with him. If a more central leader emerged then I imagine that’d change..

    5thElefant
    Free Member

    I suppose you’re right… many of us want a Labour leader front and centre…

    The tory voters?

    sootyandjim
    Free Member

    JC is unpalatable to too many – hence why the LDs don’t want to deal with him.

    The Lib Dems don’t want to ‘deal’ with him because they’re more interested in playing party politics than do what is right for the country.

    They’re no doubt hoping that, as with their spell in enabling the Tories, they’ll be able to try and blame someone else when their refusal to compromise leads to a No Deal Brexit and walk away scot-free. Hopefully though, as with their coalition with the Tories, the electorate will remember their pivotal role in the proceedings and punish them for it.

    Corbyn gets accused of sitting on his hands and is hounded for it. Swinson actually sits on her hands and folks are giving her an easy time.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    There is no time for any more posturing/plotting/replacing/emerging. This is it – there is only one route to prevent falling off the cliff, and even that is no longer in our hands, given that the EU27 may well have had enough.

    All the stars need to align. JC is and will be the Labour leader. There will be no challenge. There will be no leadership bid. They way things are going there will be no Party Conference. As leader of HM Opposition, only he can try to form the alternative government in September/October.

    The LDs, SNP, a handful of Tories, and the vast majority of Labour MPs will have to back it. I am fearful that enough will be sufficiently aghast at the prospect of him being PM, even the shortest-lived PM in history, to torpedo the whole enterprise.

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