Jeremy Corbyn

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  • Jeremy Corbyn
  • tjagain
    Member

    Stop with that utter nonsense – do you really beieve that? totally ridiculous

    Premier Icon binners
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    True. Ridiculous to think that someone who spent his entire career (such as it is) railing against the E.U. could possibly be a Brexiteer?

    You know he’s on holiday for a couple of months? Same as during the referendum campaign, then?

    While Boris and Dom put everything in place for no deal

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Binners you’re right here

    Is that picture a composite of your mind?

    True. Ridiculous to think that someone who spent his entire career (such as it is) railing against the E.U. could possibly be a Brexiteer?

    Terrific nuance.

    BTW you have an alternative set of people to vote for. They have 13 seats. Go for it – subvert democracy all you want.

    While Boris and Dom put everything in place for no deal

    Right from the start Labour have been well against no deal.

    Premier Icon dogbone
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    But just not very successful at trying to stop it. I remember a couple of votes where they just sat on their hands.

    Front bench isn’t exactly leading the charge.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Right from the start Labour have been well against no deal.

    Yet have done the sum total of **** all to stop it, once they voted to facilitate it, including ruling out any political alliances to do so. All very Brexity.

    Liek with all politicians, don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.

    He’s a Breiteer.

    Interesting article in todays Guardian by Rafael Behr which sums up a lot of the Corbyn enthusiasts views on here

    After the Brexit storm, a new political alliance could emerge

    Especially this…

    For Labour, the Lib Dems have always been a contemptible nuisance: plastic progressives; squatters who make it harder to evict Tories from office. The remain alliance will be viewed the same way and attacked as enablers of conservatism. Some hostility is rational given that the project’s purpose is to rival Labour for the status of principal national opposition. But giving venomous expression to that enmity is counterproductive. There is a strain of piety on the left that refuses to believe in valid political expressions of compassion that are not Labour-branded.

    Since Corbyn does not identify himself as a remainer, his diehard supporters are obliged to see remain itself as a suspicious category – a tactical diversion by soulless centrists who cannot be sincerely worried about inequality or distressed by austerity because if they were they would surely be supporting Labour.

    Bolstered by that moral arrogance, the official opposition party expects – nay, demands – that pro-Europeans do their duty and get behind the Labour leader as the only feasible candidate to replace a wicked Tory.

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Corbyn wants Brexit – particularly a no deal Brexit – as bad as any member of the ERG.

    And there in a nutshell is the current state of the remain side of the debate. Embarrassing.

    Little wonder leave won the referendum with this sort of analysis, and if this is the best you can do I have no doubt a second referendum will go the same way. Not that we will get a new referendum, because those who claim to want one are childishly refusing to vote for the one party who can provide it.

    Premier Icon binners
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    Len McClusky is on the world at one at the moment.

    He’s reiterating labours determination to ‘honour the result of the referendum’ and leave the EU

    How? … Red Unicorns, comrades

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    Yet have done the sum total of **** all to stop it, once they voted to facilitate it, including ruling out any political alliances to do so.

    A cursory look at the indicative votes clearly shows you are talking shit.
    No surprise there.

    And there in a nutshell is the current state of the remain side of the debate.

    Sorry Dazh but that is also rubbish. There are plenty of sane remainers who dont spout that rubbish. Its just some are so driven by a hatred of Corbyn that they seem happy for the rabid right to push through a hard brexit. I suspect its in a hope that Labour will get wiped out and they can return to the glory days where only a small part of the population was courted for votes.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Subscriber

    Its just some are so driven by a hatred of Corbyn that they seem happy for the rabid right to push through a hard brexit.

    Joking aside, what can I do to stop a no deal Brexit? My instinct is not a lot.
    Corbyn has got more sway than me. Yet he is seemingly doing nothing to stop it, he’s not even talking about it to show the UK what the Tories are doing. And this is why a lot of people are pretty damn annoyed that the leader of the opposition is seemingly not trying to oppose a policy that will do long term damage to huge parts of the country, large parts of which contain the people that Labour should be standing up for.

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Corbyn has got more sway than me. Yet he is seemingly doing nothing to stop it,

    He can, for example, start speaking with the Cabinet Secretary to see whether the suspected approach would be invalid or not.
    There can be negotiations with other parties and tory MPs which wouldnt have daily updates provided. My guess is thats happening although its going to be hamstrung by the LibDems equally obstinate approach and unwillingness to work directly.

    Premier Icon binners
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    A cursory look at the indicative votes clearly shows you are talking shit.

    Horses and stable doors spring to mind.

    We’re going to crash out of the EU because it was the default once MPs had voted to trigger article 50

    Remember that vote? The one where Corbyn 3 line whipped his MPs to support it, along with another two votes to confirm leaving the customs union and the single market

    All looks pretty Brexity to me. And paying lip-service to trying to prevent no deal afterwards, while doing nothing whatsoever, is convincing absolutely nobody about Labours No Deal opposing credentials. Well…. nobody outside the bunker, anyway

    Premier Icon lunge
    Subscriber

    My guess is that’s happening

    That’s part of the problem, you, like all of us, are guessing.
    He needs to be out in the press talking about it, convincing people that he’s working his proverbial’s off to stop no deal. He needs to be making noise as to why it’s so damaging to Labour constituencies, he needs to be telling us what he’s personally doing to stop it, he generally needs to be talking about it. But he’s not, and that concerns a great number of people.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    There are plenty of sane remainers

    I’m sure there are,  but they are being drowned out by the nutters and obsessives. I certainly don’t hear many sensible remain arguments any more, and not just on here. All I hear now is ‘if Corbyn had done something it would have been stopped’ or words to that effect. Total fantasy, but easier than admitting that it’s a very hard problem to solve without some form of compromise.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    But he’s not, and that concerns a great number of people.

    Okay, tell me. What use would that do? Looking at the Libdem feed its just a bunch of spurious rubbish with nothing of substance.
    Greens are the only ones who have pushed anything recently and even that had to be a soundbite friendly piece to get some discussion which then, really, went nowhere.
    The tory rebels seem a bit more interesting but again nothing really usable there.
    By the by, if you look at the various Labour politicans it has been made clear talks are happening although in what detail who knows. However I wouldnt be expecting press releases on that until something is finalised.

    johnx2
    Member

    All I hear now is ‘if Corbyn had done something it would have been stopped’

    You hear it, but no one has said it. I have to wonder if this is trolling.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    I’m sure there are, but they are being drowned out by the nutters and obsessives.

    Thats not dissimilar to the leave side though. Empty vessel makes the most noise and all that.
    Although its exacerbated here on the remain side since you have plenty of “moderates” whose frothing hatred of Corbyn makes things worse. I suspect with some of them if he had announced he wanted to revoke article 50 they would become strong leavers.
    Remember in many cases these are the swing voters who were courted by Blair and then Cameron and have got used to being treated as far more significant than they actually are.

    Those pesky swing voters, eh? What do Labour need them for anyway?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    All I hear now is ‘if Corbyn had done something it would have been stopped’

    He now says he opposes no deal, but supports leaving with a deal.

    Well in that case, he could have whipped his MP’s to support Mays deal. He didn’t do that. He did the opposite, thus making No Deal the default position, since he’d whipped his MP’s to trigger article 50.

    Since the Tory party takeover was completed and they plunge us gleefully towards an increasingly certain catastrophic crash out, Corbyn seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth, other than for his Twitterbot random subject generator.

    I mean, he’s hardly ever been much of a presence, but at this critical juncture, where Boris, Dom and co are being very busy boys, he is now totally invisible

    I wonder if he could be tempted out for some kebab awards?

    In the meantime, its left to Phillip Hammond to be HM opposition

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Those pesky swing voters, eh? What do Labour need them for anyway?

    As it turns out to **** things up.
    “centre” got moved significantly rightwards.
    Core constituents ended up looking for alternatives.
    Then we end up with people looking surprised when we end up in the mess we are.

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Well in that case, he could have whipped his MP’s to support Mays deal.

    Wow. You are going full Maybot press secretary there.
    Do you really not understand that “leaving with a deal.” doesnt actually mean “any deal no matter how shit”.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Which bit of ‘the EU will not reopen negotiations’ are you struggling with?

    there isn’t a bit of small print that says ‘unless you have a beard and grow runner beans’, as much as the messiah seems to believe there is.

    Us bitter remoaners have said right from the off that any deal would be what the EU said it was going to be, and their attitude would be that…. “There you go! Take it or ****in’ leave it!”

    Yet somehow there will be magic red unicorns flying over Dover once PM Jezza heads to Brussels?

    Premier Icon lunge
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    Remember in many cases these are the swing voters who were courted by Blair and then Cameron and have got used to being treated as far more significant than they actually are.

    Your other option is to ignore them and not get into power. To get into power you have to find a way of appealing to people who wouldn’t ordinarily vote for you. Blair did this wonderfully, Cameron did it well too. You can of course look to the extremes of the right or left, but up until recently, this was not seen as a wise choice.

    I’ve been waiting for this sort of comment. Shouldn’t we all be thankful that the EU is there to protect us and provide the things our own government tell us are unaffordable? Well that’s the problem. People quite rightly want and expect their own government to do these things. In many respects they see EU funding as charity. They don’t want charity, they want to stand on their own two feet*, and that’s why they voted for brexit.

    It’s their houses that will be flooding; I live at the top of Rastrick so floods just mean it takes me longer to get to work.

    Their own government has just rejected the EA funding applications so I wish them all the best come the winter storms and standing on their own two feet.

    Premier Icon dissonance
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    Blair did this wonderfully, Cameron did it well too. You can of course look to the extremes of the right or left, but up until recently, this was not seen as a wise choice

    The problem is, as our current situation shows us, that Blair and Cameron went for a tactic which ended up with lots of people feeling disenfranchised.
    There is a very good reason why Blair walked when he did. He didnt want to get the boot.
    There is a very good reason why Cameron ended in tears. He screwed up the bet.
    There are no easy answers. PR is probably the best bet but the “ignore them and not get into power” is a poor cliche which only really addresses getting power as opposed to getting policies enacted. In some cases being in opposition is better if the party in power is having to bend towards your policies to keep in power. As opposed to what happened under Blair where they tacked rightwards heavily.

    Premier Icon lunge
    Subscriber

    In some cases being in opposition is better if the party in power is having to bend towards your policies to keep in power. As opposed to what happened under Blair where they tacked rightwards heavily.

    I completely agree with this. The opposition can shape policy if the party in power feel threatened that they will/could take votes from them. traditionally, that has meant a Labour government has been stopped going to far left by a Tory opposition and vice-versa. The problem at the moment is that Labour are no threat to the Tories, they are more fearful of losing votes to The Brexit Party.

    If/when Labour start making the right noises to become a threat again then maybe Tory policy will move left slight.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    This is all just going around in circles… circles that end with a No Deal Brexit, and Labour thinking they can come to power afterwards.

    Two key moments that made it clear to me that the idea of avoiding a No Deal Brexit AND Labour coming to power was never part of this long term Milne&Co strategy (I won’t say Labour strategy because it’s not an agreed Labour wide plan at all)…

    – the votes/whipping on the Cherry amendment, which aimed to do nothing more than give Parliament the power to pull the plug on the A50 process at the very last minute if that proved to be the only way to stop a No Deal Brexit.

    – the failure of the Leader Of The Opposition to call a vote as regards the new No Deal government, despite ministers resigning not just to vote on it, but openly calling on the speaker to let parliament have that vote.

    Even a Labour leader who wanted a measured withdrawal from the EU could have supported both of these measures. They were the two last best chances to avoid No Deal. Time is just about up for any other measure now.

    Premier Icon dazh
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    Well in that case, he could have whipped his MP’s to support Mays deal.

    Wow x2.

    Come on, be honest, if he had done this what would you and the other corbyn obsessives on here have said?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    At the time? We’d probably have gone ballistic.

    But then we didn’t really realise that not too much later it’d be looking like the least worst option.

    Now? As we drift towards the disaster of No Deal, with the Brexiteers whooping with glee at the prospect and the leader of HM Opposition gone AWOL again…?

    mrlebowski
    Member

    And there in a nutshell is the current state of the remain side of the debate. Embarrassing.

    Corbyn is as much of a facilitator of Brexit as any one. It is delusional to think otherwise.

    All his political life he’s voted against the E.U. The evidence is right in front of your eyes.

    What more proof of his disdain for it do you need??

    At the time? We’d probably have gone ballistic.

    But then we didn’t really realise that not too much later it’d be looking like the least worst option.

    Hindsight is 20/20.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Complaining? Given the alternative of No Deal, right now I’d take it every time.

    Things have shifted very far to the right, very quickly, with Grandads tacit approval

    Just seen on channel 4 news. that Johnson May be planning an 11th hour vote on Mays Deal knowing that s load of MPs would vote for it, rather than watch their useless Brexiteer leader sit and nod through no deal.

    Angela Rayner was then on saying that in the event of a general election, Labour would not consider cooperating with other parties to defeat the Tories and that if there were a second referendum, Labour is still not committed, as a policy, to campaign for remain

    He’s a Brexiteer who is, at best, ambivalent about a no deal Brexit and actually what he really wants and has always wanted all along

    Some people need to open their eyes

    It’s coming to something when Phillip Hammond is now acting as the official opposition

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Complaining? Given the alternative of No Deal, right now I’d take it every time.

    We agree again. I’ve always said the solution is a deal, whether that’s May’s, Corbyn’s or someone else’s. It’s the only feasible option.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Hopefully that time hasn’t past. It looks like the only non-mental option.

    I think Jezza would still 3 line whip ‘his’ MP’s to vote against it, preferring red unicorns, which will never happen, so no deal, but I doubt he’d have much luck next time around.

    Let’s now hope there is a next time.

    No deal would be a disaster, but it seems to be what the leaders of the two main parties (and their little cabals) really want

    Premier Icon binners
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    And ‘The Deal’ is the deal. It won’t change, no matter who’s in charge.

    It was always going to be thus

    Corbyn knows that. So he knows his approach would ultimately mean no deal

    Him and Johnson are two cheeks of the same self-regarding, self-absorbed narcissistic arse. Both enjoying their (equally inexplicable) personality cults, and **** the consequences for everyone else

    olddog
    Member

    Corbyn written to other leaders on VONC and temporary unity government to extend A50 and to call a GE. Also commit Labour to 2nd ref with remain on the ballot

    Premier Icon AD
    Subscriber

    Yeh – a move in right direction!

    tjagain
    Member

    And ‘The Deal’ is the deal. It won’t change, no matter who’s in charge.

    More grade A bollocks. The EU have made it perfectly clear that a new government with differnt red lines could have a different deal ie want to stay in the CU and SM you can –

    Why keep on stating as fact utter bollocks.

    Mays deal cannot be renegiotiated because she wouldn’t change the red lines

    “I am ready to adapt our offer should the UK red lines change,” Barnier said in a speech to the Institute of International and European Affairs in Brussels. “Our objective has always been to find an agreement with the UK, not against.”

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    About ****ing time!

    No mention of any commitment to remain

    So… make me PM and I will pursue a red unicorn Brexit

    FFS!

    They’ll all, quite rightly, tell him to **** off

    Another open goal spooned into row z then?

    So the principle of ensuring Brexit, while holding others responsible for it now embraces all parties, not just the Tory’s?

    They (Seamas and co) really must think we’ve all just fallen out of a ****ing tree

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