Jeremy Corbyn

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  • Jeremy Corbyn
  • scotroutes
    Member

    But you know, Corbyn…mutter mutter…allotment…mutter mutter…Czech spy…mutter mutter…6th formers…mutter mutter…etc.

    Which is why I asked the question a few pages back… Is Corbyn so tainted (unfairly or otherwise) that it would be best for the Labour Party for him to step aside?

    Is Corbyn so tainted (unfairly or otherwise) that it would be best for the Labour Party for him to step aside?

    Shouldn’t have been allowed to be anything more than a perpetual back bench protestor, and yet here we are.

    He’s a liability, he’s not a leader, and his commie coterie aren’t going to appeal to the swing voters Labour need to actually form a government. He won’t step aside though. He’ll have to be dragged out.

    …commie coterie…

    {In the spirit of this thread most prolific posters…}

    5thElefant
    Member

    Lets keep it simple. Which one invents laws to lock up their political opponents?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Were Straight Left democratic socialists, or communists? I’ll happily acknowledge that they got wise and saw the Labour Party as the only possible vehicle to use to actually change things, but, has that really made them democratic socialists, like most of the rest of the Labour movement?

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Some background reading for those not familiar with the history of Milne & Murray, as regards Straight Left…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_Left

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    That’s a welcome call from the Labour Party, in my opinion. Glad to be able to disagree with you once again Binners! I was getting worried.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    The Labour Party – courageously addressing the real issues uppermost in peoples minds, once again 😂

    Those living near the grouse moors and experiencing flooding might disagree with you.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Binners the issue of grouse shooting damaging the moors and flooding towns in the hills is a massive one. To the people who get flooded every other year in places like Todmorden and Hebden Bridge I can guarantee you it’s a much more important issue than the free movement of labour in the EU and trade tariffs.

    And actually, the EU compounds the issue by giving the shooting estates money from CAP so you’re on very thin ice on this one.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    UK decision to let them get that money

    It still comes from CAP, the fact that our govt sets the priorities as to where CAP money goes is irrelevant as to whether it’s an important issue. To the people in these towns, like millions of others, local issues which directly affect them are more important than international trade and immigration policy. I’m afraid they just don’t care about customs unions and single markets.

    tjagain
    Member

    Is Corbyn so tainted (unfairly or otherwise) that it would be best for the Labour Party for him to step aside?

    I would say so.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    the fact that our govt sets the priorities as to where CAP money goes is irrelevant

    It is? So shifting blame to the EU for decisions made in the UK has had no effect at all? And why are you doing it? Plenty of things the EU gets wrong, but why paint UK decisions as EU ones? What’s the agenda? Why join in with that?

    To the people in these towns, like millions of others, local issues…

    You come across just ever so slightly patronising Dazh, if you don’t mind me saying. People, even folk in these towns, can see beyond their own little world you know. Some even occasionally leave the shire, or, heaven forfend, have friends, relatives and colleagues born elsewhere. Imagine that?!? Out of towners, mixing with our own local stock.

    I would say so.

    Indeed, it is irrelevant if Corbyn’s time is up because of his own mistakes, or those of others, or just bad luck timing wise, or cumulative unfair criticism of him, or time wasted having to battle others in the party who never wanted him to be leader, or perhaps because all leaders who have lost elections struggle to win others in future, but, where as he may have been the right man to move the party on a few years ago, he is the wrong man to lead the party now and a barrier to its success.

    slightly

    😂

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    So shifting blame

    Wasn’t shifting the blame, although if CAP results in lots of money to be given to grouse estates then we’re better off without it IMO.

    You come across just ever so slightly patronising Dazh

    That is very amusing. You and others have spent the last 1000 pages saying brexit voters didn’t understand what they were voting for etc, right through to now saying everyone has got their priorities wrong because brexit is the only thing we should be worried about. And you say I’m patronising?

    Honestly, this confirms again to me that the whole remain side of the debate has tragically disappeared up it’s own backside. Which is a shame, because the remain argument used to be pretty much cut and dried. Now all I hear is wailing about how it’s all Corbyn’s fault, and if it wasn’t for him everything would have been ok. It’s pretty pathetic really.

    tjagain
    Member

    dazh – thats just on here that you get this peculiar delusion about corbyn

    athgray
    Member

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/jo-swinson-rejects-tory-coalition-idea-and-rules-out-scots-indyref2-support-1-4969501

    tjagain, Jo Swinson Saying she would not go into a coalition with the Tories under Boris Johnson, or any party supporting Brexit.

    tjagain
    Member

    Progress! Stil a hypocrite tho if she wants a second EU ref but not a second Scottish one

    “The SNP have put forward this idea of IndyRef2 at subsequent elections and they have lost seats and lost votes.”

    Errmmm- the SNP have a majority / are the largest party in every election possible. @they have far more legitimacy and votes and seats in every forum than the lib dems.

    Also still refusing to apologise for her part in 10 000 deaths and impoverishment of millions to give tory supporters tax cuts

    Its OK tho – she is going to lose her seat with a bit of luck. Foul woman. She needs to join the tory party – her natural home

    athgray
    Member

    tj, I am not defending her. I know little about Jo Swinson, you appear to know a bit more, but a cursory Google search of Jo Swinson and tory coalition quickly brought that article to the top of the page which shows her ruling it out despite your claim. Could you be wrong about other things?

    “Ok so she has ruled out coalition but……!”

    tjagain
    Member

    Its from July but not something I have seen before. I stand corrected that she has ruled it out but its conditional on Johnson being in charge

    I have a deep dislike of the woman tho because of her lack of repentance for the harm she has done- which must colour my views.

    Of course I could be wrong about other things – much of political debate is opinion not fact.

    johnx2
    Member

    it’s all Corbyn’s fault, and if it wasn’t for him everything would have been ok

    Is that your grouse?

    I don’t think anyone’s said that. I would say we’re a long way up shit creek and any paddling he’s managed to do has been in the wrong direction.

    More seriously, building a cross parliament group to vote down the government should be just about withing grasp. He may be doing all kinds of wizzy behind the scenes stuff to achieve this, but blimey it’s a long way behind the scenes if he is.

    Maybe he does think he can win a post-crash out election, to deliver proper socialism? God knows I’d want him to win it compared to alternatives. But he won’t.

    tjagain
    Member

    john -several folk on here are blaming Corbyn and voting tory lite instead because its all his fault

    nick1962
    Member

    Let’s face it, it was a shock that he won the leadership contest,even to him.I was always under the impression that JC intended to reform the party moving power from the PLP back to the grassroots/membership so they had a greater say in shaping policy etc. making it less centralised.The subsequent challenge to his leadership probably only reinforced this view. Surely his original plan was about paving the way for a successor so that those with ” radical left wing” policy views stood a chance ? IIRC he seemed ambivalent on whether he would even contest the 2020 election.The snap 2017 election, when let’s face it ,he was expected to be electorally annihilated changed all that and his popularity on the hustings and his ” personality cult” confounded many critics,but not Binners.In ordinary times I don’t think that JC would contest the 2022 election but any succession planning is on hold as BJ may call a general election any time.If Labour win then he will stay on but if not he’ll exit and no doubt someone with similar “radical left wing” views. less baggage, a sharper suit/twin set and better media presence will get elected as leader and maybe Binners will be happy.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    brexit is the only thing we should be worried about

    I have never said that.

    Lots of other things I have never said in your little piece as well.

    Now, was there a point to you trying to link grouse shooting to the EU, rather than except it as a very British issue?

    Now all I hear is wailing about how it’s all Corbyn’s fault

    No one thinks Corbyn is singlehandly delivering Brexit, but, in this thread about Corbyn, illustrating why people are disappointed with him without reference at all to Brexit is unlikely, admittedly. It’s not the only reason though, he’s just a disappointment… three years to win over the trust of the public has resulted in… well…not enough of it going on… and even losing voters who were previously on side. The gap between Labour members and Corbyn, on the issue of the EU (which YOU brought into this grouse shooting thing) is a very obvious example of why Corbyn is not bringing to the Labour Party what he promised… unfortunately. A more member led party would suit me just fine, as I’m to the left of many of the MPs, just as the party members are… but all Corbyn meant by it is the members have the power to accept the “strategy” of Milne&Co, or lump it.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    thats just on here that you get this peculiar delusion about corbyn

    Sadly it’s not. I hear a lot of people in real life saying similar. And Twitter is even worse with the whole FBPE thing transforming from what was a well intentioned but pointless bit of virtue signalling to a full on stream of Corbyn-is-the-devil fantasism.

    The remain side of the argument has been hubristically detached from reality from day one. They never thought they would lose, they then wouldn’t – and still don’t – accept that they lost, then they make up all sorts of convoluted arguments to say the original result is invalid, and now when it looks like it is finally going to happen, they blame the wrong person/people. I guess people need their scapegoats,

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    One or two shrewd articles popping up in the Guardian recently.

    It is difficult not to conclude that, even at the 11th hour, the problem is not Corbyn’s beliefs but a resistance to him as prime minister, whatever the circumstances.

    “If it is so important that no deal is prevented at all costs, if this is not just all political posturing, then the “no Corbyns” sign has to come down off the treehouse.”

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    This
    long read has some interesting bits in about the fbpe and co.

    Binners the issue of grouse shooting damaging the moors and flooding towns in the hills is a massive one. To the people who get flooded every other year in places like Todmorden and Hebden Bridge I can guarantee you it’s a much more important issue than the free movement of labour in the EU and trade tariffs.

    Yet they probably should care about Brexit given that a fair chunk of the flood defence funding is coming from the EU, and the recent applications to UK Gov have been rejected.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Yet they probably should care about Brexit given that a fair chunk of the flood defence funding is coming from the EU

    I’ve been waiting for this sort of comment. Shouldn’t we all be thankful that the EU is there to protect us and provide the things our own government tell us are unaffordable? Well that’s the problem. People quite rightly want and expect their own government to do these things. In many respects they see EU funding as charity. They don’t want charity, they want to stand on their own two feet*, and that’s why they voted for brexit.

    *I don’t subscribe to this myself BTW. I have no problem with EU funding, but you have to understand and accept this fact if you want to understand brexit.

    5thElefant
    Member

    a fair chunk of the flood defence funding is coming from the EU

    Err… you do know where the EU gets that money from? Don’t you?

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Subscriber

    a fair chunk of the flood defence funding is coming from the EU

    Err… you do know where the EU gets that money from? Don’t you?

    I always laugh at this. After Brexit, we won’t see any of that money. We will still get to pay the same taxes, but the money will go to billionaire Conservative party backers.

    “Trickle down”, etc, etc.

    Premier Icon dissonance
    Subscriber

    you do know where the EU gets that money from? Don’t you?

    Getting diverted towards the EU thread here but as oldnpastit says. The problem is although it could be argued the money goes to the EU and back again if it didnt go that route that it wouldnt be used to help those deprived communities. Admittedly some money might go to the area in terms of more subsidies for the grouse moors owners to trash not only their land but everywhere near them but thats about it.

    “Trickle down”, etc, etc.

    In fairness in these cases without flood defences it is more than just a trickle down.

    Err… you do know where the EU gets that money from? Don’t you?

    Razor sharp. As ever.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Pfft!! Keep up at the back.

    Grouse Moors are just, like, soooooooooo last week. On with the issues exorcising the nation even more than that….

    I think we got through another day without mentioning the B word, comrades.

    Nothings happened on that front today, has it? No high profile Tories at each other like rats in a sack? No. I’ll scoot off back to the allotment then. Same time again tomorrow? We’ve not done rural buses for a while, have we?

    DrJ
    Member

    Heaven forbid that the leader of the opposition should be concerned about the country’s educational system! Whatever next?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Fair play to him… he got the university admissions system a footnote mention at the end of the today programme

    They’d spent the previous hour discussing the big bust up with Hammond and Johnson over Brexit and the chaos around no deal planning.

    One of Corbyn’s pygmies was on and asked for Labours position on the no deal preparations

    It doesn’t actually have a position on it, but ‘the matter was being discussed’

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    The current system of predicted grades gives the wealthy a leg up and penalises disadvantaged students and those from ethnic minority backgrounds.

    Any evidence for this? Will universities still be giving lower “offers” to students from poorly performing colleges/schools who impress when face to face? Actually, @northwind could help us understand the issues around this…

    As for Brexit… Corbyn made it clear he would wait ‘till September… expect radio silence ‘till then at least (while Cummings is firing on all channels for the Leave team taking back control).

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I’m sure Dom will have bought him a new watering can, or something, as a thank you for vacating the news agenda for the next month and giving them a clear run for their ‘No Deal’ propaganda

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Corbyn wants Brexit – particularly a no deal Brexit – as bad as any member of the ERG. They are different sides of the same coin.

    What he’s hoping for is for the Tories to tear themselves apart & GE which he’ll hope to win so he can implement a red unicorn Brexit.

    If you want to stop Brexit you’ve really one party to vote for…..& it’s neither Labour or Tory.

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