Yes but giving subsidies (also know as “I can’t believe it’s not welfare”) to people wearing wellies that crash around the countryside in battered old landies is good, giving subsidies (welfare) to working class or brown people is bad and anti-capitalist.

Says who?

It’s about to be made plainly clear that the people who don’t give a shit about helping the low paid are the same people that don’t give a shit about hill farmers, or our food security. Or about any of us, and what we get to eat. And Brexit has put them in charge. We need them to be opposed, for all of us.

And it’s not all grouse shooting… Read Bio Waste Spreader in Private Eye to see how badly farming as a sector is in trouble with the current system. Smaller farms are generally in big trouble.

Jezz we can poll 5 times higher than the other loony party:

Given the circumstances it was unforgivable that the Conservatives put up a candidate that was convicted of expenses fraud and very rightly recalled by the voters. I have to wonder if that was a local cock-up or wheher May allowed it as an act of vandalism.

You do know they receive subsidies now?

Did I really need to spell out that I was aware it was a special, only because of Brexit, new subsidy? Despite the contradiction in “Brexit making everything great again” and “farmers needing more subsidies to stay standing still”?

where’s the rascism in that statement ?

Did I really need to spell out that the quote was to highlight the “costs of no deal” being “can’t be any worse than what they are at the moment.”? Despite the independent predictions from across the board predicting things will very much be quite a bit worse?

it was unforgivable that the Conservatives put up a candidate that was convicted of expenses fraud and very rightly recalled by the voters

Actually if you add back in the bxp votes Davies increased his vote share & we know that bxp voters have no problems voting for expenses fraudsters (farage had to pay back essay more)
Davies was also very popular locally among Tories (local party apparently furious Johnson didn’t help them out more – swing voter interviewed said he waited in rain for Johnson but no show so he voted bxp!)
Parachuting in a different candidate against wishes of local party would’ve been a big mistake.

Big sheep farming area too just as it was revealed that Johnson’s hard Brexit means government will have to slaughter 1000s of lambs & compensate farmers if they can’t sell to EU
Inevitable consequences of a Tory Brexit biting them

wheher May allowed it as an act of vandalism.

Blaming May again just looks ever more desperate

On a side note did anyone watch Hardtalk interview with Jack Straw this week? It was primarily focussed on the current Iran issue but included a fairly damning assessment of Corbyn and Labours chances of re-election.

I was never a particular fan of Straw but it was interesting to compare him to current MPs Who seem utterly rag tag and amateur in comparison.

just as we’ve a govt of tory hard right barrel scrapings, lab front bench has been put together to minimise numbers of folk who’ve actually run anything much when in govt. So I guess there is a bit of following the leader there at least.

The BBC have been trying to get a comment from Corbyns office about last nights disastrous by-election results. Nobody was available.

Apparently theres a note on the press office door saying ‘At the allotment. Back in September’

At the allotment

yawn

#wheresjeremy? Finger on the pulse about the problems facing the country, the day after Labour was wiped out in a by-election…

President Trump walking away from the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty is yet another destructive decision that makes the world less safe.

This reckless act will heighten the threat of a nuclear arms race.

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) August 2, 2019

Pass me that placard, comrade. I feel a protest coming on. You get the petition going…

Labour: “One thing is clear – voters have rejected Boris Johnson and his divisive, out-of-touch UK Tory government.”

The voters have rejected the conservatives by giving them 39% of the votes, compated to 5.3% for The Bunker Soldiers.

Can't read what's on the banner if you march BEHIND the banner. pic.twitter.com/nSjrCbrlyP

— 势头结束了 (@CroissDelivBoy) August 1, 2019

He does hang out with some ‘interesting’ folk, does Saint Jez. Very interesting.

Insert gif of jeremy Cornyn strutting into a wrestling arena or something

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 30% (+3)
CON: 29% (+1)
LDEM: 16% (-3)
BREX: 15% (-1)
GRN: 5% (+1)

via @ComRes, 26 – 28 Jul
Chgs. w/ 25 Jul

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) August 2, 2019

It’s about to be made plainly clear that the people who don’t give a shit about helping the low paid are the same people that don’t give a shit about hill farmers, or our food security.

Our food security is uncertain anyway and, if we did care, would need massive oversight to make it semi safe with no messing around with the claim farmers are businesses as opposed to state employees.

Actually if you add back in the bxp votes Davies increased his vote share & we know that bxp voters have no problems voting for expenses fraudsters

Probably the best gain was brexit party who got a fairly decent gain from their previous incarnation as UKIP.
Turnout was surprising crap. I am guessing many tory voters decided they couldnt support him and many labour voters decided to abstain.
Doesnt look like Plaid Cymru or Green party alliance made a massive difference.
From a tory perspective I am not sure he was the biggest fraudster ever. Seems more it was the cover up rather than being a dodgy sod.
I am not sure we can learn anything useful here and I doubt the main parties will feel overly threatened.

So far we have had six opinion polls since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister, from Ipsos MORI, Deltapoll, Opinium, ComRes and two from YouGov (one for the Sunday Times, one for the Times). Voting intentions from them all are below.

YouGov (30 Jul) – CON 32%, LAB 22%, LDEM 19%, BRX 13%, GRN 8% (tabs)
Ipsos MORI (30 Jul) – CON 34%, LAB 24%, LDEM 20%, BRX 9%, GRN 6% (tabs)
Deltapoll (27 Jul) – CON 30%, LAB 25%, LDEM 18%, BRX 14%, GRN 4% (tabs)
YouGov (26 Jul) – CON 31%, LAB 21%, LDEM 20%, BRX 13%, GRN 8% (tabs)
Opinium (26 Jul) – CON 30%, LAB 28%, LDEM 16%, BRX 15%, GRN 5% (tabs)
ComRes (25 Jul) – CON 28%, LAB 27%, LDEM 19%, BRX 16%, GRN 4% (tabs)

https://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

None of them tell you much until you take it down to the constituency level though. It all depends on what happens after Boris’ no deal attempts fails and how many of that CON vote goes to BRX

Exactly, Brecon showed that Tories are very vulnerable, Johnson bounce looking very soft, especially compared to May, Brown , Major etc.
Edit: cramberrys link says much the same-Johnson looks very precarious, a less polarizing leader would’ve been the wiser choice, but the Tories are so cowed by farage ….

In spite of all Corbyn could still be the last man standing in the current Mexican standoff!! He’s already survived 2 Tory leaders who were consumed by brexit.

In spite of all Corbyn could still be the last man standing in the current Mexican standoff!! He’s already survived 2 Tory leaders who were consumed by brexit.

He could outlast another 7 at this rate. Doesn’t count for anything if you’re still the leader of the opposition though, does it?

Something he seems quite happy to be. Tweeting from the sidelines about rural bus services and Donald Trump

Actually he’s seen out 3 Tory leaders, 4? ukip ones, 3 lib dems, 3? greens

He’s a political limpet, but you’re right, out of power he can achieve little bit there’s definitely more he could be doing. The Tories have been so paralysed by brexit a stronger vision from the opposition genuinely could have helped.forge a way through the mess.

there’s definitely more he could be doing

It’s difficult to imagine how he could be doing less. He’s all but invisible (unless you’re attending a miners gala in Rotherham or a Palestinian fundraiser in Tower Hamlets). If you can’t manage to get ahead of these bunch of clowns in the polls, then its time to **** off and make way for someone who can articulate something worth believing in

This country needs some hope. Real hope. Not some mythical post-colonial bullshit, or faux marxism. We deserve a lot better than the idiots at the helm of both main parties

We deserve a lot better than the idiots at the helm of both main parties

Do we? We repeatedly elect governments who promise much then fail to deliver, and then when the game is up they change the faces at the top and the whole cycle starts again. We won’t deserve any better until people stop voting against their own interests, stop assuming others are going to sort out our problems for us, and start becoming politically engaged and involved. The solution to shit government is challenge and reform the system, not putting some snake oil personality at the head of it and expecting a different result. Until that happens we deserve all the Mays, Johnsons, Corbyns and Swinsons we get.

Indeed. See also voting for one party on order to keep the other lot out. How do you get the party you want to vote for, to change it’s stance? You don’t do it by voting for them anyway.

Now, Binners keeps on saying that The Jezziah is too busy on the allotment to focus on the stuff that really matters to the majority of people in his constituency, and also in this country. I think that’s ridiculous. I mean, just read this thread and see all the worthy causes and people he gets behind.

https://twitter.com/SirBasilBrush/status/1157537063610269696?s=20

Oh, and he still has time to talk about rural bus routes! What a guy, eh?

Political lube for the centrist dads.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/03/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-remain-boris-johnson-election-victory

Rub gently into the areas of polarisation and you may not get another Tory government.

I started reading… got to the part where it was taking about “all out Remain” and the “Right”, and then uses Stephen Kinnock as an example… who has consistently, since the Referendum, said that we have to Leave, and opposed another Referendum, and opposed Revoke, and still thinks the way ahead is a soft Brexit… and decided the writer is either an utter idiot, or disingenuous, and stopped reading. Then realised who posted the link, and slapped my self in the face for even clicking on the link. I’m the idiot.

Yep best not to read anything you don’t 100% agree with god knows what’ll happen.

You don’t do it by voting for them anyway.

I’m not talking about voting for a party. That’s the problem. If the people really want things to change, they have to do it themselves, or kick up such a fuss that those in power can’t ignore them. This does happen every now and again, that’s why we have universal suffrage and workers rights, and don’t have things like the poll tax. If the people at large think the limit of their political activity should be marking a cross on a bit of paper every few years, then they can’t really complain about why nothing ever changes.

Yep best not to read anything you don’t 100% agree with god knows what’ll happen.

I love reading well written pieces arguing any point at all, whether I agree with it or not. If you’re going to argue that the “Right” in Labour are happy to use “full Remain” to undermine Corbyn, don’t pick an MP who has consistently said we must Leave the EU for 3 solid years to make your point. And I’ve found, on average, that Rone’s links tend to go nowhere useful, when there are anything to do with these two topics (EU & Corbyn), sorry.

Just for you… I’ll go and read the whole thing. If it doesn’t get any better… I’ll be slightly miffed…

Same old… “ignore the polling now, look how many % he added during the 2017 campaign” … “ignore the elections since, they tell you nothing” … “I don’t like the idea of a Labour Brexit, but I think it’s a vote winner not a vote loser” … “look how bad the Conservatives have done under Johnson in a by-election where Labour were irrelevant” … utter waste of time reading any of that.

Haha

I read that Johnathan harker piece as it popped up in my newsfeed , from the title I hoped it offered some kind of insight or nuance others had missed, offering a way out of this mess…. Some way labour could block no deal Brexit and win an election outright.

Instead it was just a bit of daydreaming, ‘itll probably work out fine coz Corbyn almost won in the last GE’

Then i popped in here to see who posted it as a vindication of the last 3 years of shambles

In the same way that a vote for Brexit has now become a vote for no deal, I note how thinking Corbyn isn’t worthy of your vote now marks you out as a Tory.

Proper grown up thinking, right there

The sixth formers need to face up to the fact that the Lib Dem’s, Green Party and SNP are presently looking a lot more like the official opposition to this madness than a disgustingly, unforgivably lazy and complacent Labour Party

They’ve taken their voters for granted for so long, they seem to think we owe them our vote because… Tory’s

Well **** off grandad! We don’t!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/04/trigger-ballots-prove-an-unwelcome-distraction-for-under-fire-labour-mps

I read that at the weekend. You really couldn’t make it up.

Theres one particular gem in there that just sums up the whole insular naval-gazing Momentum/Corbynite ‘project’ perfectly:

Momentum’s national coordinator, Laura Parker, has argued the only chance Labour will have to defeat the Conservatives is with “a new generation of young, BAME, working-class leaders who will take on the political establishment and provide a genuine alternative”.

However, the group’s mass campaign on the issue has also sparked some member mix-ups. “Some members are demanding them in seats where they don’t even have Labour MPs and have to be reminded that first they need to help elect a Labour MP and then they can worry about deselecting them,” one party source said.

Genius! Deselecting MPs before they’ve even been elected. 😀

This sprung immediately to mind:

Labour self immolating while the country crashes out of the EU and we likely go through a general election.
Slow. Hand. Clap. Just how much more irrelevant do they want to make themselves?
Probably for the best, on balance. Last thing we want now is their half-hearted support for remain at this stage, splitting the remain vote.

they can’t really complain about why nothing ever changes.

the whole point is lots has changed since tories have been in power, having successfully blamed a global financial crisis on modest public spending in the UK. Local authority budgets which provide services for the poorest have pretty much halved. Beggars are back. Because things happen over years, people tend not to notice.

Is anyone on this thread mounting any kind of defence at all of Corbyn’s leadership abilities?

There was a good interview with Alan Johnson in the Guardian at the weekend

He was very complimentary of Corbyns leadership qualities and Labours electoral chances

What did you think of Alastair Campbell’s comments last week that the Labour party is in danger of being destroyed as a “serious political force”?
Yeah, we’re heading for disaster and everybody knows that. The simple problem we’ve got is that Jeremy Corbyn is not a leader. He’s never going to be a leader, never wanted to be a leader, is totally uncomfortable in the role as leader. And on Europe he’s a total disaster. So I think Alastair Campbell’s right.

Who would do a better job as Labour leader?
Practically anyone, actually. Because Jeremy is not just pious and sanctimonious, he’s useless at leading, which is why he has people around him to do his shoelaces up, pull his strings. And we’ve got such good women in particular on our benches, whether it’s Rachel Reeves, Yvette Cooper, Lisa Nandy or Stella Creasy. There’s a whole list of them that would do a much better job.

I read that at the weekend. You really couldn’t make it up.

So you feel that the MPs should be able to take their local party members votes for granted?

So you feel that the MPs should be able to take their local party members votes for granted?

The question is why on earth the Labour party are asking this question & causing further internal chaos just weeks before a probable general election

the timing couldnt be much worse!

So you feel that the MPs should be able to take their local party members votes for granted?

Is that your best endorsement of Corbyn’s leadership abilities?