And yet the LP were hounded to adopt it in toto.

Yeah, I found that quite troubling.

Interesting one that, because as well as being incredibly rude and offensive, it strikes me as anti Zionist rather than antisemitic,

Yeah, the antisemitism is debatable, the total un-acceptableness isn’t. My own personal view is you wouldn’t use “Zionist” as a personal insult unless you were anti-semitic, it wouldn’t make sense. I think lots of the other so called ant-semitic comments weren’t anti Semitic. However that’s not what you said, you said that some of the controversial comments were actually criticism of the state of Israel and as far as I can tell literally none are.

anti Zionist without being anti-semitic? Many Jews think so.

I can’t really show how. Essentially that means you want the 75pc of Israelis who are Jewish banished to some undisclosed location [1] leaving the 25pc non Jewish people unharmed. I really can’t see how that is anything other than anti-semitic.

…and if you said you wanted all of Israel rid of all Israelis regardless of nationality would that be better? Not to my mind.

This is really quite a tangent.

Do you reckon that would be the case, particularly for the tories, if the same amount of effort was put into it?

But they don’t put effort into it, they just skip the ad homs and have an actual debate. Jo Swinson doesn’t get call a cum bucket. No death threats. It really is a Labour phenomenon.

[1] Or ‘driven into the sea’.

I can’t really show how. Essentially that means you want the 75pc of Israelis who are Jewish banished to some undisclosed location [1] leaving the 25pc non Jewish people unharmed. I really can’t see how that is anything other than anti-semitic.

Well no, because a Jewish state (zionism) is not the same thing as a state of Jews. Zionism is a political aim also supported by non-jews, equally, there are various Jewish groups who oppose a Jewish state, for various reasons. There’s one orthodix group/ sect opposing the state of Israel because they believe it should only come into existence after the coming of the messiah.

Some of those groups have been derided as “kapos”; it’s pretty difficult to think of anything more offensive.

Ooh look, Ma, I’m all growed up now!! I posted a Monty Python picture!!

FFS – stay out of it Kelvin.

Reported for self abuse.

I can’t really show how. Essentially that means you want the 75pc of Israelis who are Jewish banished to some undisclosed location [1] leaving the 25pc non Jewish people unharmed. I really can’t see how that is anything other than anti-semitic.

As I recall, some Jews consider Israel as “bad” because they believe that the Jewish state should be established by God, not Man. Or something along those lines – I’m sure Google would help!

I’m REALLY no expert, but I’m sure that you can think that the historical manner in which Israel came in to being is troubling, whilst still accepting the de facto existence of Israel. Similarly one can feel deeply uncomfortable about how India, Pakistan and latterly Bangladesh were created, without wanting to get all invadey and map redrawingy about it.

There is something as deeply concerning about this weaponisation of bigotry and perceived bigotry, as there is about the bigotry itself.

Aaaah…. I think I get it now….

No death threats. It really is a Labour phenomenon.

That’s literally not true is it. (RIP Jo Cox). And the Daily Mail comments sections contain as many bat shit right wing mentalist who crack on with insulting socialists as any left wing loonys do attacking their perceived enemies. It’s not unique to either political leaning, it’s a problem with idiot people and the increasing polarisation of politics.

Zionism and anti-zionism discussed here in an Israeli context:

NB. ‘the £3 blackshirts’, can’t you stoop any lower?

NB. ‘the £3 blackshirts’, can’t you stoop any lower?

Yeah! Brown shirts, surely? 🙄

Binners thinks people should stop being racist and be nicer to each other lol

Heal thyself sixth form comrade your talking jambabollocks.

I’m REALLY no expert, but I’m sure that you can think that the historical manner in which Israel came in to being is troubling, whilst still accepting the de facto existence of Israel.

Yup, but if you hold that view you’re not an anti-zionist:

“Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism. The term is broadly defined in the modern era to denote opposition to the political movement of Jews to self-determination within the territory of the historic Land of Israel”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Zionism

That’s literally not true is it. (RIP Jo Cox).

Sorry, I meant out of the mainstream parties, not out of every party .

As in my original post: “The LibDems, Torys, Greens and SNP just don’t seem to suffer from this level of name calling.”

I very much doubt Thomas Mair was a card carrying Libdem.

No, I disagree. You can dislike, find distasteful, be uncomfortable with (and therefore be ‘anti’) the Zionist founding of Israel, whilst still recognising that what is done is done. Lots of States around the world are founded in iffy circumstances; by their nature there are winners and losers. Doesn’t mean that there’s anything to be gained by revisiting history.

I very much doubt Thomas Mair was a card carrying Libdem.

No, but you get my point. It’s not ‘a Labour issue’ it’s a fringe extremist lunatic issue. The Labour problem is that the loonies haven’t got a left wing UKIP equivalent to migrate to. Although there are still plenty of loonies in and supporting the Tories, too.

No, I disagree. You can dislike, find distasteful, be uncomfortable with(and therefore be ‘anti’) the Zionist founding of Israel, whilst still recognising that what is done is done.

Yup, you can do all those things, but if you did you wouldn’t be an anti-Zionist. Anti-Zionist doesn’t mean ‘reluctant Zionist’.

The Labour problem is that the loonies haven’t got a left wing UKIP equivalent to migrate to.

The Labour Party was taken over by the loonies.

‘ Doesn’t mean that there’s anything to be gained by revisiting history’: I don’t think many Israelis seem to take that view with reference to themselves. Look at all those references to ‘history’ in the video above.

OOB, sorry, no, I disagree. Christopher Hitchens, noted atheist of Jewish descent and self declared ‘anti-Zionist’ explains what I mean far more eloquently than I could in this short clip.

OOB, sorry, no, I disagree.

That’s fine, we can all read the definition for ourselves.

Leaked emails reveal that in January, Gardiner chose not to sanction a Corbyn supporter who allegedly said Labour MPs had a phone app that sent instructions from the Israeli government.

The individual, a white man in his fifties, also allegedly described the former Labour MP Chuka Umunna as “black on the outside, blue on the inside”, before responding to an objection from a mixed-race staffer by saying: “You would say that, wouldn’t you?”

Labour’s disciplinary unit, run by Gardiner, did not respond to a complaint about the incident for five months, citing an admin error and a “huge influx of cases”. It acted only after the mixed-race staffer said he was “concerned and disappointed” by the delay and could be racially abused at future events.

In an email dated January 2 this year, one of Gardiner’s aides wrote: “Thomas made a decision for a notice of investigation to be issued rather than a suspension. So this means the respondent is able to attend party meetings etc.” A further email stated: “Your comments below about anticipating further abuse will be passed on to the investigating officer.”

The individual remained a party member and posted incendiary material online, including an article in April saying Israel had been responsible for 9/11 and an illustration of an aeroplane emblazoned with the star of David heading for the World Trade Center.

Ignoring blatant racism in Labour, because the vicitim is not idealogically sound.

I see Comrade Binnerski has been on the twitter dot com again.

With the extremist Boris Johnson now installed in No.10, more important than ever that all in @UKLabour unite against the REAL enemy: Tom Watson.

— 势头结束了 (@CroissDelivBoy) July 23, 2019

The individual, a white man in his fifties, also allegedly described the former Labour MP Chuka Umunna as “black on the outside, blue on the inside”, before responding to an objection from a mixed-race staffer by saying: “You would say that, wouldn’t you?”

That’s taking support for Palestinians to a whole new level.

Any news from the allotment today? Hope all this heat hasn’t seen off the runner beans.

#wheresjeremy

Corbyn is literally a political potato.

I’ve never voted Labour.. For my sins I voted tory in my twenties and now vote lib/Green depending.

He’s sat on the fence with brexit and he’s sitting on the fence without sacking the racist elements within his own party.

He’s not a leader, he’s just a potato.

I listened to PMQs today since it was the PM’s last day and I thought Corbyn was positively statesman-like in his initial comments on May. Excellent comments, excellent delivery. I know that’s what politicos are cynically trying to do in these situations but even so.

… And yet May like Cameron asks him to resign.

Idiots. He’s now on his 3rd Tory leader.

Soz Binnerz. Tom Watson more likely to resign.

Tom Watson more likely to resign.

Indeed, that’s why May could say it without fear of toppling him and condemning Boris to face a credible opposition leader in the imminent GE.

Be funny & fitting if JC had shrugged and said “Ok, I resign” and May’s last act as PM had been to hand a landslide to her opponents.

Or maybe Labour taking over Brexit is the only thing that could save the Tory party from extinction.

Wow, this thread is just littered with Blairites crying for “the good old days”.

I can understand your frustration, what with the Labour Party daring to allow us hoi polloi more of a say over how our party is run and who represents us. I mean, how very dare we!

Perhaps, given the Tory-light leanings of Blairites you’d all be better off jumping ship to the Lib Dems? Their new leader seems like she would be just the ticket for you all. Repeatedly chucking about the word “Comrade” as if it’s an insult or thinking that doing so is the height of comedy is quite frankly pathetic.

As for the anti-Semitism nonsense, criticism of Israel as a state is not anti-Semitism. Supporting BDS is not anti-Semitism. Calling into question the motives of members of the Labour Friends of Israel is not anti-Semitism.

What I care about is the fact that we have another shit bag pm and labour have done nothing to stop him.

What I care about is the fact that we have another shit bag pm and labour have done nothing to stop him.

This, this so many times.

Tory prime ministers may come and go, but Jeremy will ALWAYS be the leader of the opposition. Amazing guy.

— 势头结束了 (@CroissDelivBoy) July 23, 2019

What I care about is the fact that we have another shit bag pm and labour have done nothing to stop him.

You understand how the Tory leadership election works don’t you? Labour don’t get a say.

I can understand your frustration, what with the Labour Party daring to allow us hoi polloi more of a say over how our party is run and who represents us. I mean, how very dare we!

cough cough brexit cough

Wow, this thread is just littered with Blairites crying for “the good old days”.

I never voted for Labour under Blair… Corbyn got me voting Labour in 2017 for the first time… nothing I’ve seen since suggests that he shouldn’t have made way straight after that election for someone else prepared to carry on the fight for a left wing Labour government. He successfully moved Labour on policy towards where most members and many voters wanted it (except on Brexit), and then stubbornly stood in the way of the forward momentum (sorry) gained, when they should have been appointing a new leader for the next stage after that election loss. Corbyn will be old stale news with the voters by the time the next election comes around, and even with members who elected him (twice) his Brexit policy positioning has done irreparable damage to his reputation.

Wow, this thread is just littered with Blairites crying for “the good old days”.

I wonder how many Tory PM’s Jezza will get to stand impotently and uselessly across the despatch box from, in his once weekly ventures away from the allotment?

5? 6? 7?

The sixth formers and the PFJ still show no sign of wanting shut of him, so he’s clearly going nowhere (literally and metaphorically)

In the end, Magic Grandad will surely go down as the most effective leader in the history of the Tory Party

The sixth formers and the PFJ still show no sign of wanting shut of him, so he’s clearly going nowhere (literally and metaphorically)

In the end, Magic Grandad will surely go down as the most effective leader in the history of the Tory Party

Well I’m calling “house” on this game of Bitter Little Babbling Blairite Bingo.

Bore off or get some new material.

You’re not having a punt on how many then, comrade?

Oh… go on!

We could put a few roubles on it, Comrade?

I’m going for 6, possibly 7,before an unfortunate incident with a courgette finally consigns him to his mausoleum in Islington where the party faithful (and thankful Tory MPs) can queue to file past, daily, to pay their respects

And perhaps then, what’s left of the Labour Party can try and move on from it’s permanent state of pointless, pitifully feeble and gutless, placard-waving opposition

There you go again, chucking about the word “comrade” as if it’s an insult.

Give up on dreams of Blair or one of his cronies making a comeback to drag Labour towards the right. The rank and file of the Labour Party have found their voices and are not afraid to use them.