Jeff Jones owners…help me decide…'normal' or 'plus'

Home Forum Bike Forum Jeff Jones owners…help me decide…'normal' or 'plus'

Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)
  • Jeff Jones owners…help me decide…'normal' or 'plus'
  • mariner
    Member

    Sounds to me like you have the Stooge sorted.
    Not what you want to hear but I would stick with the Stooge but then I am a Stooge rider so I would say that wouldn’t I.
    Could always go the Speedball route though now that might be interesting.

    Gotama
    Member

    Not a huge amount of help but re point 3 I’m 100kg and used to ride my Jones pretty hard down some reasonably rough stuff and not once did I think, oooh, the fork is flexy so I can’t see the axle aspect being an issue.

    I’ll have another Jones someday and when I do it will be a Plus.

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    I had my plus for 6 months.
    I found it very long and not very nimble, but neither am I. it was ok at most things, but did not excel at anything.
    the chainline with the 3” tyre and single ring was shocking in anything resembling mud.

    but it was sublimely comfortable.

    rosscopeco
    Member

    ton…am I right in saying you also have or had the standard Jones too? If I’m right and comparing both then, the standard is the better frame to go for in terms of nimbleness? Comfort wise….was it night and day comparing the standard to the plus Jones?

    Thanks Gotama…good to know re flex.

    rosscopeco
    Member

    Looking for some wisdom from those in the know 😉

    Have decided it’s time to scratch the inevitable itch and just get a Jones. Currently running a Stooge Mk2 (3rd Stooge I’ve had) and have run every possible iteration from 650B+ to full fat front. Currently set up with Jones loop bars / a 27.5×3 on the rear and I swap between a 29+ and 26×4.8 depending on type of trial. Both of these are IMO the best set ups I’ve tried to date compared to 29+ / 29 rear.

    I’ve had plenty of time on a friends Jones Ti space frame and have to say it’s a very nice place to be. I won’t be going for the Ti version so it’s between a steel diamond ‘standard’ or ‘Plus’.

    For The Record..

    a) I run a 135 rohloff so that limits things a bit…there are a few 135 jones frames left. Not interested in dropping coin on the newer SWB as the rohloff won’t fit…maybe one day…
    b) I also have a custom 142 thru axle Ti Truss fork on my Stooge so I’m fully bought into all things Truss. Currently swapping between Hope Fatsno carbon rims with 29+ & 26×4.8 but I’ll be dropping some coin on a 27.5×3.8 front thus having every iteration of front wheel combination for the new Jones…
    c) My local trials are a mixture of everything from tight / twisty / rocky / rooty and then the longer fire road type stuff like the WHW / QEF. I’m generally on them all…I don’t spend ‘significantly’ more time on one type of trail over another.

    Here’s my quandary / associated questions:

    1. The standard Jones doesn’t go above 27.5×2.8 in the rear, I think this limits it a little IMO in terms of future tyre development. The Plus will obviously fit 27.5×3 (or bigger as tyres develop) but I’m thinking it’ll mess with the geo too much. Any experiences?
    2. My main question….is the Plus significantly less nimble in the tight twisty trails?
    3. Has anyone compared the older QR Truss fork compared to the newer 135/142 Thru axles? Any noticeable difference in flex / stiffness?

    As above, my trials are very varied…I know one bike won’t fit them all and I’m going to have to make compromises somewhere. So…standard Jones or Plus Jones?

    Thanks in advance

    Premier Icon firestarter
    Subscriber

    I’ve only got the standard space frame but I did try a 27.5 2.8 and I wouldn’t have been happy with the clearance to ride it. It was on a 45 mm internal rim tho so it may work on narrower but I don’t have one.

    Re the truss forks I have the 135 qr and they are unbelievable best thing about the ride tbh. I can’t feel any flex or lack of stiffness at all. I’m still debating selling mine but I’d miss the fork it really is that good that’s why I’m still undecided

    bikesian65
    Member

    I have a 29 space frame and a space frame plus ( both steel) , on balance I think I prefer the 29 over the plus so in no order:
    29 space frame plus :

    the 29 plus spacefrmae is surprisingly good off road its very confidence inspiring and the momentum of the big wheels can be used to good effect and the ETT is about an inch shorter than the 29 space frame so for me its a lot more comfortable – quite like the slack head angle, but I find it quite hard to lift the front wheel so you just have to smash through everything – weird thing is apart from not being able to easily pop the front up it does not ride like a ‘ long bike’ off road feels really agile not had any back wheel not following the front episodes

    I find it very sensitive to front tyre pressure ( maxis chronicle) a psi either way makes a real difference ( might be the tyre)

    The chain to tyre clearance is a bit marginal ( with a boost crankset) had to go 1 x in the end and in bottom gear the chain is almost touching the tyre – to get any decent clearance with a 2x set up I had to loose a cog ( so 9 gears on a 10 speed cassette) and put a 2.5mm spacer behind the cassette , was ok then

    Very comfortable and confidence inspiring – funny thing it does not feel fast even though it probably is

    I can’t notice any improvement due to the through axels over the QR dropouts on my 29 ( but I don’t do big drops/big air as I am an old duffer)

    29 space frame

    I have a few wheel sets for this so it may colour my judgement but as a 29×2.2 its a good road bike

    With a 27.5 x 3 on the front and a 27.5 x 2.8 in the back ( it works but not a lot of clearance between the tyre and chain stay although I have not had any problems in winter) both on a 49mm internal rim ( hugos ) its very smooth but not a sensitive regarding tyre pressure feels like it accelerates better and very good on rocky and rooty routes – in the winter I put 29×2.4s on it to cut through the slop – its easy to pop the front end up

    I find the 29 more versatile ( but that may be because I have 3 wheel sets) and it feels faster than the plus , i use the 29 space frame a lot more than the plus ( i.e the 29 is used for work and weekend rides and I only get the plus out at weekends for a ‘ big ride’)

    TBH the new SWB plus space frame would suit me in small – i.e if I could have the ETT of the plus spaceframe, a head angle between the plus and the 29 with enough clearance for a 27.5×3 in the back – only I am not to keen on the split EBB shell on the new SWB plus

    Dont know if that answers your question – Knowing what I know now the new SWB plus with 27.5 and 29 wheels would suit me but to answer your question if I had to chose between the 2 I would vote for the 29 ( I am 5’8″ might be different for you)

    You can’t go wrong with a Jones though cheap to run and very versatile

    Premier Icon ton
    Subscriber

    i would like to add, even though i was a bit disappointed with my Jones experience, i DONT think it was the bike. i think it was maybe my size and lack of fitness.
    my size even on the 25 plus made it look small. it is a lowish toptube, and i had to run a lot of seatpost out. it creaked like mad, and i could not stop it from doing so.

    my lack of fitness, with a big wheel with a big 3” tyre was always going to be a problem. the big just felt hard work all the time.

    if Jeff decided to make a 21 or 22” seat tube plus, i would be the first in the queue. shod with a set of 2.5 tyres it would be great.

    AlasdairMc
    Member

    I have had a mk1 Stooge, and now have a Ti Stooge and Ti Spaceframe, the latter with a Rohloff. I’d personally recommend the normal Jones because I just don’t get the benefit of plus versus a 29+ or fat front and regular rear (currently 2.2″ on both bikes). The Spaceframe has enough compliance to negate the need for a plus tyre in my opinion – it’s a far softer ride than the Stooge while still being stiff and incredibly direct.

    I found the Stooge quite draggy with a 29+ rear, but obviously the Jones may be completely different.

    If you can, sell everything to get a Ti Spaceframe, they’re astonishingly good bikes. I got mine second hand for a good price, but I’d probably survive on toast for a year to buy new if I had to.

    Premier Icon Clink
    Subscriber

    Alasdair can you clarify how the ti Stooge compares?

    timbur
    Member

    Just got home from crashing my Diamond with Ti Truss around the forest. It’s ace. Best bike I’ve owned/ridden.
    Had a Plus for about 3/4 rides thinking it would be a bigger/badder Diamond but it wasn’t. It’s still a hell of a bike but not as nimble and playful as a Diamond.
    No difference in 135mm front and 142mm bolt thru for me. Both stiff and once you get beyond the oversteer of the first few corners you soon get use to how precise they are.
    I’ve had 29, 29/650 and 26/29 on the Diamond. Wouldn’t go above a 2.4 in the rear on a 29er rim.
    Currently set up as a 29+ up front and 650b at the back. It’s just spot on for me now.
    Had a steel space for a while but got the Ti itch as well and got a Ti Space. It’s rather splendid and oh so capable. Kidney selling expensive though.
    Tim

    Lionheart
    Member

    Hope you have all the information you need, as I really don’t want to hear any more about them. All this talk is pushing me into an expensive corner!

    Premier Icon gil_
    Subscriber

    Tim’s words match my experiences exactly…

    I have a 24″ plus and do enjoy riding it over longer distances, 40+ miles would be perfect, but it can feel a bit cumbersome at times, over shorter/more playful rides,only ever run with 29″ x 3″
    Choose a Steel Diamond with Ti truss every time, have run 650b+ back and front for short playful rides and 29+/29″ -2.4 over longer distances, might even build some “road” wheels soon…
    I run a Steel spaceframe as a 29″ singlespeed, but my knees are getting a bit old for that now

    Personally a Steel Diamond and Ti truss is the way to go, popping in to see Jeff next week, want one bringing back 😉

    AlasdairMc
    Member

    Clink – are we talking Ti Stooge to Jones Spaceframe Ti, or to steel Stooge?

    Compared to the Jones it feels longer at the back and less precise. It’s faster to accelerate though, but this might be build related as I’ve not found the Rohloff to be racing friendly. The Jones feels comfier over distance, probably a combination of the inherent frame flex and the bars.

    Comparing the Stooges, the Ti is lighter and feels stiffer. Much faster than the steel, but again it feels longer at the back due to the need to fit 29+

    Premier Icon Clink
    Subscriber

    Cheers Alasdair, that’s very helpful.

    Premier Icon JohnClimber
    Subscriber

    AlasdairMc – Member
    If you can, sell everything to get a Ti Spaceframe, they’re astonishingly good bikes. I got mine second hand for a good price, but I’d probably survive on toast for a year to buy new if I had to.

    Ok don’t rub it in how good it is……
    Glad to see that you are enjoying it as much as I did…..

    bikesian65
    Member

    Having spent the week riding both my 29+ Jones and 29 Jones to work and back and out and about I would definatly say the 29 is the better bike – I am now having sell everything and get a Ti space frame thoughts much to my wife despair

    Has anyone had any ‘Ti cracking’ issues with a Jones Ti of any sort?

    Premier Icon singlespeedstu
    Subscriber

    Has anyone had any ‘Ti cracking’ issues with a Jones Ti of any sort?

    It’s a good job my old PC with all my cracked Ti pics on has died. 😆
    Maybe it was all the broken frame pics that killed it.
    In short though 2 downtubes and 1 fork on Jones I’ve owned but far more on other Ti frames I owned…
    The steel spaceframe held up quite well though and is still going strong with it’s new owner.

    bikesian65
    Member

    Stu

    serious question as you have had both ( steel and Ti) space frames knowing what you know now would you bother with a Ti jones space frame over a steel one ? ( I like the riding position/fork/the way it is) of my 29 steel space frame but am always wondering what if……. is the answer just ride what you have and keep the £££ in the wallet ?

    Premier Icon singlespeedstu
    Subscriber

    In most ways I liked the steel better.Less flexy and just a more solid feel to it when pushing on uphill and downhill.
    The only draw back was the extra weight.

    whitestone
    Member

    I’m not sure if he posts on here but htrider on the bearbones forum has a Jones 29+, he used it on this year’s HT550 and last weekend’s YD200 so presumably he’s happy with it.

    AlasdairMc
    Member

    I had a quick go on htrider’s Plus and it felt pretty odd compared to my Spaceframe. I think perhaps the very long steerer was the main difference, but it did feel like a nice bike and just as comfortable to sit on – both have the similar upright seating position.

    YoGrant
    Member

    Rossco,

    I’ve got a steel standard jones spaceframe that I ran with 650b plus wheels (wtb 2.8s). This was ace like that but I’ve now also bought a plus (Timbur’s) and now have the standard Jones back with 29er wheels and singlespeed.

    I don’t find the plus to be less nimble but I’ve had a pugsley and this feels like a pug that you can actually steer. It takes a bit more effort to get going but it’s momentum is incredible. It will batter over everything. The length is more at the front end than the back in my experience and Jeff has got the trail/head angle sorted so it steers perfectly.

    The spaceframe I’ve deliberately set up to be different enough to make for a different ride. It’s a bit sprightlier and lighter and no gears.

    I ride the plus more often and I tend to only do 1-2 hour rides at the moment.

    BUT…. if I only had one I’d go back to the standard spaceframe with 650b plus for all rounder.

    bikesian65
    Member

    yogrant

    i had my space frame as a 650B+ really liked it that way , probably why Jeff has gone that way with the new ‘ SWB plus ‘ – perhaps the new surly ECR 27.5 pushed him that way

    9 years on my Ti Spaceframe now, currently running a 29+ 3.25 front and a 2.4 on the rear.

    I believe you can get a 29×2.6″ Nobby Nick in the rear of the steel frames.

    martinh
    Member

    Must be about time for me to throw in my tupennies worth.

    8.5yrs with a 24″ Ti Spaceframe, two years with a 25″ Plus and a Mk 1 stooge in the middle.

    Yes, Ti can break and the Spaceframe is hard to repair. The second break was terminal. All those tubes just wont stay in alignment when they start welding. It was a great frame til then. Amazing comfort for a rigid bike until you ride a Plus. Definitely more nibble than a Plus but doesnt hold the momentum as well and feels less stable at high speed.

    The weight of the Plus combined with the big tyres takes some getting used to, as does the speed you arrive at the corners with. Once you get used to it even the 25″ isn’t a handful in the twisty stuff, it copes just fine. There’s a reason Jeff went boost on the more recent frames and thats the chainline. The wrong tyre/gear combo can rub. At the end of the day I love the Plus and would choose it over the standard model if I was buying again. The only downside for me was that I have to run it geared, I could never find the right combo as a singlespeed.

    So for my singlespeed future the question is Stooge Mk 3 or Jones SWB Plus?

    Premier Icon Atomizer
    Subscriber

    Adding to Martinh comments – Nearly 12 years on my ti space frame and it hasn’t snapped yet! I’ve had two steel diamond frames and now also have a diamond 29 plus.

    My favourite is the original ti spaceframe for nimbleness and perfect fit for me. I don’t have huge amount of miles on the plus but so far it’s less nimble more plough over everything. If i was really going to do incredible distances fully loaded then I’m sure it would be perfect. For my South Downs riding with the odd jaunt to the Yorkshire Dales less so
    I wasn’t surprised when the Plus SWB was announced and I’ll probably start saving for the ti space frame version of that.
    It does sound like an ideal middle point – able to run 29er standard wheels and 27.5 x 3 wheels if needed.

    Lionheart
    Member

    This thread is full of ‘rich’ info for potential Jones owners but am I the only one now getting confused? I had no idea there were so many options/variations…

    tazzymtb
    Member

    Ridden or owned all the versions of Jones out there, for me the steel space frame is the one. I found the ti space frame to noodly, the ti diamond was lovely, but it’s a jones so should look leg caliper, not a normal bike, the steel diamond and unicrown was a hoot,but the truss is a nicer fork. The plus is a great all day monster truck, but doesn’t feel as playful in tight woodsy single track.

    The new plus swb version looks good (I used to run a gazzaloddi on 48mm trials rim in the rear of the normal space frame n it was mental)

    Also owned stooges, and they are great little hooligan bikes, my latest ride is the stooge speedball 29+ and seems to combine playful with being able to mosh at warp speed, hence why its my “race/pedal a bit quicker with a number on” bike.

    Info on the new SWB frames: Here

    Basically there will be 2 versions: 1). Jones Plus LWB and 2). the new Jones Plus SWB.

    The new SWB is a redesign of the old Jones 29. It will be slightly slacker, and have 22mm longer chainstays. At the rear it will be able to run 29×2.6 or 27.5×3

    Both frames will be either Diamond, or Spaceframe. And will eventually come in 3 sizes.

    bikesian65
    Member

    Martin H is right about the momentum of the plus vs the 29 – there is a woodland ride that I do quite a lot and there is a particular section thats single track all rooty and up and down, on my 29 space frame there are 2 sections that I have not managed to clear on my 29 in 4 years of trying , one is a slight uphill and then sharp left and down hill round a small oak tree – never done it on my 29 but first time out on my 29+ it went round first time much to my surprise , went back and did it agin with the same result and I think its the momentum of the big wheels and traction due to the long chain stays – it was quite a surprise

    The SWB plus is on my radar as well

    Interesting what tyres do you run on your 29? ^^^^

    Coming back to the OT’S question, get a test ride on a LWB plus I’ve the obvious answer 😉

    From reading the original post – sounds like you’d be best on an SWB and loose the rollhof?

    bikesian65
    Member

    Fulton

    Tyres are presently 2.2 Gearex AKA ( as this is my ride to work bike) but regarding the tricky bit in the woods I have had 26×3.8 Knard front/29×2.4 ardent rear, 29+ chronicle/29×2.4 ardent rear, 650×3″ front/650×2.8 rear and couldn’t get round this particular turn , on the Plus 29×3 Chrnoical both ends and straight round ( with a pause at the top) also cleared the next wet/slippy uphill as well no wheelspin on the 29+ vs spin on the 29 – came away wondering how the plus works as its counter intuitive i.e. it does not behave how it looks

    Might be i prefer my 29 as I have ridden it more , might try riding the plus only for a couple of weeks to see if I gel with it better, on a positive note if I decide I don’t like it all the parts will swap over to a SWB plus frame 🙂

    Interesting thread

    rosscopeco
    Member

    Interesting thread

    – indeed, this thread just keeps giving. A huge thanks for all the contributions, I’ve found them all very helpful in coming to a decision.

    I’ve also posted this on the MTBR forum, whilst also speaking directly to several owners…..all the feedback points towards the standard 29 Jones.

    My decision is therefore to go for the standard Jones with a truss fork…and depending on what’s available out there a Ti Truss fork. To this end, I’ve had several PM emails from members who are selling various iterations of Jones…a big thanks to you all.

    Depending on my experiences with the standard Jones, I suspect the new SWB will be a future purchase…although I’ll have to get a A12 148 Rohloff…flash kidney and liver sale coming soon to a transplant centre near you!

    Now to sell my custom 853 fat bike frame made by Bencooper to fund the project…;)

    bikesian65
    Member

    rosscopeco

    In the spirit of learning from others – whats the Rolholf hub like ? as its something that on paper looks interesting ( would completely winter proof my jones 29 ) but I have used an alfine before on another bike and eventually took it off that bike and went SS

    rosscopeco
    Member

    bikesian65 – To be frank I think it’s a marmite thing. Some love them…most don’t.

    I believe AlasdairMc above has one on his Jones so he’ll be able to give you a more specific view.

    I’ve had two for almost 10 years. I’ve build all my frames choices around using them..including a custom fat bike. I love them and can’t really see past them. The pros outweigh the cons with the biggest criticism probably relating to the perceived weight disadvantage. IMO…this is a moot point in that unless you’re super skinny with no body fat an extra 250g+ on your bike isn’t really a justifiable argument.

    Virtually zero maintenance, no gear changing issues in any terrain, in any weather, caked in mud, whilst stationary beats all the cons from my perspective.

    I also run a SS set up and have to admit the lightness and quick spin up of the rear wheel is nice, but as above, all the pros out weight the cons.

    bikesian65
    Member

    Hmmm – more to think about ! – might try my alfine again and see how it works after a winter of neglect 🙂

Viewing 37 posts - 1 through 37 (of 37 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.