Jeez! I'm speechless

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  • Jeez! I'm speechless
  • p8ddy
    Member

    Flashy….

    So, regardless of what went before – Surrounded by a large group of angry people, some of whom may (according to reports) have been carrying knives, with your kids in the car, you’d step out and say, “I say, chaps, this is a rum old do, what!”.

    Ha ha ha… Comedy gold.

    Tell me, how did driving over a bunch of bikers work out for him?

    I’m reckoning that got him a sorer kicking, rather than them saying ‘Props for the getaway attempt dude’…

    FFS. We know almost nothing of this, but we do know that the motorbike riders were being dicks, and the car driver was hopelessly outnumbered and scared. I’d have tried to find a way to drive off sharpish as well.

    Me? I’d simply have gotten away before an accident happened. Let idiots be idiots.

    If I see a gang of dodgy guys on the street, do I A. Cross the road? or B. try and squeeze my way through them? I’ll be on the other side of the road watching as you walk through them it appears.

    I_Ache
    Member

    New pics.

    Check out the front passenger tyre for those saying the tyres wern’t slashed. And look at the pool of blood next to his hand in the second photo for those that say he wasn’t hurt.

    Shocking Images Emerge of Bikers Bashing Range Rover Driver

    LHS
    Member
    peterfile
    Member

    Ha ha ha… Comedy gold.

    Tell me, how did driving over a bunch of bikers work out for him?

    I’m reckoning that got him a sorer kicking, rather than them saying ‘Props for the getaway attempt dude’…

    A sorer kicking? he’s got knife wounds to the face

    We’re not all heroes who would happily stand up to 60 bikers out of choice mate, leaving a wife and baby in the car.

    It’s easy to say it from your armchair, but I bet your face-the-angry-bikers-now-rather-than-later approach might not be so easy to implement in the heat of the moment. You, like the majority of the population, would probably be shitting your pants and prepared to do anything to protect your wife and baby.

    The some of the pro biker comments on here are pure “comedy gold”
    Post about what happened before the video started and how they would be fearless and carefully manoeuvre around the bikes. Ace
    But to be expected on here I guess. Some posters on here were defending Saville even after all the reports and inquiry s

    The YouTube link I posted on my first post. How would you deal with that situation?

    p8ddy
    Member

    Peterfile…

    We’re not all heroes who would happily stand up to 60 bikers out of choice mate, leaving a wife and baby in the car.

    Sigh… it would really help this discussion if you’d actually read my posts rather than inventing whatever you’d like my opinions to be.

    I’ve all along advocated staying as far away from the bikers as it’s humanly possible to be. Ie, not letting things get to a situation where you’re threatened.

    However, exactly how escalating the situation by bumping a bike and then driving over a whole bunch of them, crushing one guys spine can make things better is beyond me. So please, be my guest, explain how that works. How does that make things better. In any way?

    It’s easy to say it from your armchair, but I bet your face-the-angry-bikers-now-rather-than-later approach might not be so easy to implement in the heat of the moment. You, like the majority of the population, would probably be shitting your pants and prepared to do anything to protect your wife and baby.

    Nope. I’d see a large group of **** and steer as clear as possible.

    However, in the event of a bump, if you’re asking do I try and make peace with them and manage the situation, or should I goad the living hell out them? I think the answer is obvious. I’d take the cowards way out – there is nothing brave or noble in taking a doing.

    Instead, there are at least two people in hospital, one of whom looks like he’ll never walk again.

    And BTW – I’m not pro anyone in this debate. The bikers were ****, the driver was a **** and they combined to make a massive twatfest.

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaGw3VbfOQY&sns=em[/video]

    So how are those cars able to avoid finding themself in the midst? One minute its cool, then next you’re surrounded by bikers pulling wheelies, one crashes into you and you stop only to find yourself surrounded by angry nutjobs. You either

    A) Sit in your car while they smash the windows in. Chances are your wife and child also get hurt.
    B) Try and drive off and get to the nearest police station. If some psychotic biker is in the way thats thier bad move.

    I spose if theyd run over a pedestrian while pulling a wheelie up the pavement it would be the pedestrians fault for not getting out of the way?

    jonm81
    Member

    Me? I’d simply have gotten away before an accident happened. Let idiots be idiots.

    If I see a gang of dodgy guys on the street, do I A. Cross the road? or B. try and squeeze my way through them? I’ll be on the other side of the road watching as you walk through them it appears.

    P8ddy, how would you have gotten away before this happened if you are on a motorway when a gang of motor cyclists catches up and swarms around you? If you can get away then fine but how do you do this on a motorway when the only way to go is straight ahead?

    I had this happen on the M20 about 6 years ago when a group of around 80 motor cyclists from across the channel came charging up behind me as I was overtaking a lorry. They ended up under taking between me and the lorry. I was then stuck in the middle lane with bikes 2 feet infront and several inches behind and to both sides of my car. I couldnt accelerate, brake or change lane to get away. All I could do was stay where I was and hope that I didnt hit any of them until they were all past. They thought it was funny to bang/slap on the sides and roof of cars as they were passing and did this to alot of the cars they were passing.

    I can tell you this was f**king frightning as I had no control over the situation at all. I certainly wouldnt have got out of the car if I had clipped any of them (I hope I wouldnt have run any over either though).

    atlaz
    Member

    The second image was taken just after the attack occurred with the motorcycles clearly trying to escape the carnage they had just caused. All the while, Lien was left on his hands and keens bleeding heavily and being shielded by two brave bystanders.

    Having seen the bits on the ABC video, it’s pretty clear that the bikers weren’t just trying to surround him to wait for the police. That they’ve ultimately dragged him out of his car and beaten him so that he ended up in hospital shows that, perhaps, he might have had reason to think they were going to do him some harm.

    I don’t know if I’d have driven OVER people but I’d definitely be looking to get away from the bikers.

    Just as an aside this came from the police about tracking down more bikers:

    But some of the plates turned out to be stolen or belong to different bikes, making it tougher to ID the motorcyclists.

    So, law abiding motorcyclists with fake/stolen plates out for a casual ride, not attempting to hurt anyone… a bit like this one where they harass drivers, ride on the pavement etc. 🙄

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCi6NDV5j28[/video]

    peterfile
    Member

    p8ddy, i’m inventing nothing. Stepping out of your vehicle to face the music/take a beating IS standing up to the bikers. Have you ever been in a situation where you’re likely to be seriously injured or worse? By your persistent attempts to convince us that you’d try to “make peace” with them, i’d suggest that you have not.

    However, exactly how escalating the situation by bumping a bike and then driving over a whole bunch of them, crushing one guys spine can make things better is beyond me. So please, be my guest, explain how that works. How does that make things better. In any way?

    Fight or flight.
    It’t not “fight, make peace or flight”.

    No one can say for sure what they would do in that situation, however the driver clearly felt threatened enough that he was left with only those two “options”. Fighting/taking a beating from 60 people, some of whom are armed, isn’t really what I would call an option.

    Adrenalin kicks in and the foot goes down. Not saying I condone it, but logical and rational thinking were most likely at the bottom of the pile at that moment. He wasn’t thinking about a way to “make the situation better”, he was thinking about protecting himself and his family, NOTHING else.

    And BTW – I’m not pro anyone in this debate. The bikers were ****, the driver was a **** and they combined to make a massive twatfest.

    I said the same in my very first post in this thread, I can’t take either side.

    I do find it odd that we can judge the driver’s reactions to a situation which none of us experienced. IMO it would have been extremely foolish for him to get out of the car. By staying put he would probably have been dragged out anyway, so his options were limited and becoming more so for ever second that passed.

    Heat of the moment reaction, i’d expect he just went into autopilot and was not capable of sitting down for a rational analysis of the situation before deciding on the best course of action. He make a silly move, but he was heavily influenced by the bikers’ behaviour

    Your comment makes no sense.

    It does to me. You said in the circumstances you’d do the same – taking that to mean run over a couple of guys on motorbikes, the question is what do you do next?
    Run? In a Range Rover? Do you really think you’re going to outrun sports bikes in a Range Rover? Watch the video, did it work? Maybe in your experience of playing GTA it might, but not in the real world.
    So they catch you, what do you do now, bearing in mind you’ve made what was probably a bad situation to start with infinitely worse.
    So I’m interested in knowing, having proven your macho manliness by successfully running over 2 or 3 of a gang of 50 odd bikers – what’s next?
    Pressing [CTRL][ALT][DEL] isn’t an option

    LHS
    Member

    Having never owned a games console, your infantile attempts at belittling my character are completly flawed, so grow up.

    The guy had two options, stay and get beaten and risk the life of your wife and child, or run and take your chances and get to a police station ASAP. Sadly for the poor chap involved it didn’t work out for him, but option A wouldn’t have worked either. In fact, the fact that he got to a downtown area might have saved his life as innocent bystanders stepped in to stop the beating. Out on the freeway, i doubt he would have been as lucky.

    Quite simply, given the choice of the life of my baby and wife or two thugs on a motorbike, i’d choose my family everytime.

    hora
    Member

    I’m back, what have I missed?

    p8ddy
    Member

    Peterfile…

    p8ddy, i’m inventing nothing. Stepping out of your vehicle to face the music/take a beating IS standing up to the bikers.

    Well, you are. You’ve made a classic logic error in assuming the bikers would have beaten the guy in the first place (and from that can we extrapolate that his beating was several leagues worse after having driven over a number of them?) So, you’ve invented that it’s a forgone conclusion he was getting a beating.

    My strategies? 1. Avoid avoid avoid. The bikers want to get somewhere, they didn’t decide to go out on a ride to beat someone – the aim was getting to times sq. So, when you see the idiots, stay the hell away from them. Don’t drive in the same direction. Apply brakes, stop, let them on their merry way. Don’t tailgate to the point of hitting one of them.

    In the event of hitting one of them? What’s the sensible option? Get out and crawl, apologise and throw yourself on their mercy? Or drive over the top of some more of them? Desmond Morris, a noted anthropologist (and author of Manwatching), sides with me. Bow and scrape. Give them their alpha maleness.

    Have you ever been in a situation where you’re likely to be seriously injured or worse? By your persistent attempts to convince us that you’d try to “make peace” with them, i’d suggest that you have not.

    You’d suggest wrong. And again, you assume your speculation is fact. You’re inventing stuff in your head and going forward taking that as fact.

    I come from a rough area. Three friends murdered. One kicked to death, two stabbed to death. I’ve a scar on face and a crown where I was punched by a guy wearing a knuckle duster. My best mate has been attacked by a meat cleaver. Enough experience? In a crap situation, ultimately? Run away if you can. If you can’t? Bow and scrape. Try and manage the situation. What not to do? Come out swinging. That’s what RR bloke did. He made a terrible situation much, much worse.

    p8ddy:How does that make things better. In any way?
    You:Fight or flight.
    It’t not “fight, make peace or flight”.

    Which doesn’t answer my question. How did it make the situation better? How did it improve his chances of survival?

    No one can say for sure what they would do in that situation, however the driver clearly felt threatened enough that he was left with only those two “options”. Fighting/taking a beating from 60 people, some of whom are armed, isn’t really what I would call an option.

    In case you missed it – He *did* take a beating. A far worse one that he might have taken had he stopped after the initial collision. Or, even better, had he just steered clear of said morons.

    Adrenalin kicks in and the foot goes down. Not saying I condone it, but logical and rational thinking were most likely at the bottom of the pile at that moment. He wasn’t thinking about a way to “make the situation better”, he was thinking about protecting himself and his family, NOTHING else.

    Adrenalin may have kicked in. But I still don’t have teh answer to the question, in waht way did his actions make any degree of sense? Or make him safer? He’s an idiot. And anyone that reckons they would do likewise is an idiot. Sorry, but it was utterly the wrong thing to do.

    I do find it odd that we can judge the driver’s reactions to a situation which none of us experienced. IMO it would have been extremely foolish for him to get out of the car. By staying put he would probably have been dragged out anyway, so his options were limited and becoming more so for ever second that passed.

    You’ve never been in a road rage situation? I’ve been in one – three huge guys vs me and a mate. (My mate flicked them the bird being a tool to them) They boxed us in in traffic and said monsters got out their gangsta mobile. You have no idea the amount of apologising and dirt eating we did. Hands up, apologise. Lots of apologetic gestures and general prostrating ourselves. Not the same situation (we had no means of possible escape for starters, and my mate goaded them) but we escaped kicking free. Different situation, but we got out of it with only our egos dented.

    Heat of the moment reaction, i’d expect he just went into autopilot and was not capable of sitting down for a rational analysis of the situation before deciding on the best course of action. He make a silly move, but he was heavily influenced by the bikers’ behaviour

    On this we agree. The bikers come out of this with no credit at all. And they, at best, are deeply at fault for the carnage. But the drivers actions were equally unconscionable.

    LHS
    Member

    I come from a rough area. Three friends murdered. One kicked to death, two stabbed to death. I’ve a scar on face and a crown where I was punched by a guy wearing a knuckle duster. My best mate has been attacked by a meat cleaver. Enough experience?

    I used to live in Todmorden too. It’s a jungle out there.

    atlaz
    Member

    You’ve made a classic logic error in assuming the bikers would have beaten the guy in the first place

    You made the same mistake though…

    In case you missed it – He *did* take a beating. A far worse one that he might have taken had he stopped after the initial collision.

    Nobody can tell for sure what would have happened if he’d got out and tried to calm the situation, only what DID happen.

    peterfile
    Member

    P8ddy, you’re making as many assumptions as me 😉 How was the driver able to decide whether it was just an organised ride full of nice bikers or an unorganised group of animals until he was boxed in and it was to late to avoid?

    I’m all for avoiding trouble, but what do you do when it comes looking for you? which is what appears to have happened in the driver’s case initially?

    I’ve never managed to cross the road or talk my way out of anything when it was already on the cards. If it’s an accidental bump against somebody in city centre pub, then sure, hands up and be all apologetic. But if you’re in the wrong part of Glasgow and you’ve been spotted by people out to cause trouble, it doesn’t matter what side of the road you’re on or how fantastic your negotiation skills, you’re getting a kicking unless you get away. Why would you even try to talk them down?

    I suppose the million dollar question is whether or not he was going to get a doing from the moment he hit that first biker. He obviously thought so and that’s why he fled, to at least have a chance of escape. I agree that if there was a good prospect of being able to talk your way out of it then of course that’s preferable, but how on earth do you work out whether or not to take that risk in a split second and potentially put yourself and your family in grave danger?

    I’d like to think i would have made a better decision than the driver, but it’s so hard to say without having experienced it. No one is suggesting that he made a good choice, but that he took one of a few very limited choices, none of which were particularly great. But I have experienced a number of reasonably severe kickings that i felt were clearly going to happen from the outset and i did anything to avoid them. Stopping within arms length of a group of thugs was always my last resort 🙂

    scuzz
    Member

    You’ve never been in a road rage situation? I’ve been in one… Different situation, but

    Cool story bro. What’s it got to do with this?!
    You still haven’t really explained how you’re supposed to avoid a bunch of bikers coming up behind you, boxing you in and brake checking you.

    they didn’t decide to go out on a ride to beat someone

    And you know this for sure…?

    LHS
    Member

    In case you missed it – He *did* take a beating. A far worse one that he might have taken had he stopped after the initial collision.

    Disagree, the beating was stopped by people walking along the street – benefit of getting to a built up area. Where they first stopped him on the freeway, there would have been no one to save him.

    hora
    Member

    Where I come from even the poodles carry flick knives

    I_Ache
    Member

    Run? In a Range Rover? Do you really think you’re going to outrun sports bikes in a Range Rover? Watch the video, did it work? Maybe in your experience of playing GTA it might, but not in the real world.
    So they catch you, what do you do now, bearing in mind you’ve made what was probably a bad situation to start with infinitely worse.
    So I’m interested in knowing, having proven your macho manliness by successfully running over 2 or 3 of a gang of 50 odd bikers – what’s next?

    As your the one bringing GTA into it.

    Run more of them over, turn around on the freeway and go up the other side. Pass my carbine rifle to the wife and have her pick a few off. Maybe use a couple of sticky bombs. After weaving in and out of traffic where a few of them would go down I would get the car into Los Santos Customs to get it repaired and a respray.

    Simples.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Cheers for the pic with the tyre, that’s interesting. Still doesn’t prove tyre slashing o’course (since you’re just as likely to flat a tyre driving over motorbikes) but makes it seem pretty damn likely

    atlaz – Member

    Having seen the bits on the ABC video, it’s pretty clear that the bikers weren’t just trying to surround him to wait for the police. That they’ve ultimately dragged him out of his car and beaten him so that he ended up in hospital shows that, perhaps, he might have had reason to think they were going to do him some harm.

    This of course happened after he’d intentionally run over some of their mates- so you can’t assume that it would have been the outcome in the first place, when he hadn’t.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    I would like to know what the guy who presumbably got clipped was thinking.

    He rides around to the front of the car, 2-3m in front (at 30-40mph?) then brakes (not sure for definite whether you see his brake light, but he goes back out of shot while all the other bikes continue at the same speed) while looking left away from the car.

    What did he expect would happen?

    The guy had two options, stay and get beaten

    ..or avoid the situation in the first place. Maybe not getting yourself into a situation where you feel that running over people is the only way out?
    Still, it gives you the chance to posture and who am I to deny you your moment?

    LHS
    Member

    ..or avoid the situation in the first place

    If you watched any of the videos leading up to the incident you would conclude that it was impossible to avoid a gang of 50 bikers who were running red lights, riding over pavements and swerving in between traffic.

    jonm81
    Member

    [Quote] What did he expect would happen? [/Quote]

    Surley everyone knows this is what happens when you break check a car using a bike

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nqTbaNZMyU

    Anyway, still no one has answered how you are supposed to avoid the bikers entirely when they come upon you on a motorway where you can only go straight on.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Yep, but… all the other cars continued to their destination without crippling anyone or getting beaten to a pulp. So it’s not just a case of not being there, for whatever reason he became the target and it escalated from there. It’s an assumption, but, probably if he’d done whatever all the other drivers were doing, everyone would have got home safely.

    Not to say it’s his fault- another assumption but it seems like maybe it all escalated from no more than a bit of verbal at the start, with lots of unintended/unforseen consequences. Who knows really.

    jonm81
    Member

    Look at the other videos, they did attack other cars. Maybe others were just lucky enough not to clip one of the riders when they got brake checked.

    Anyway the question above was to those who keep saying he should have just avoided all the bikers in the first place. That is not an option if they overtake you on a motorway. You simply can not just “cross the road and go another way”.

    atlaz
    Member

    There’s a comment on another copy of the video that says the “gang” is well known for causing small accidents and then threatening drivers to get money in a sort of crash for cash sort of scam. How true that is, I couldn’t tell you.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Maybe I’ve just missed it but the only “attack” I saw was with the other video with the hybrid, and again, you have no idea what started it.

    I was on a group ride years ago down south, a driver fed up of being (cleanly) overtaken decided to swerve in front of one of our riders. (a middle aged female teaching assistant, incidentally), and almost took her off. When he stopped in traffic, he found himself surrounded by bikes, and was duly told off. (by a labour ministerial candidate and a hairdresser, IIRC) No damage, no violence, we’re all very middle-class and british.

    But, if you’d seen a video starting at that point, you could easily think “All those crazy bikers hassling that guy!”. Not the same situation at all, but, I can see parallels just with how things look on video.

    Unless there’s other vids that I’ve not seen, we still have no idea at all what started it. I’m still going to assume it was something the riders did, because they’re cocks, but something happened to make this kick off with that one car, not the hundreds of others.

    LHS
    Member

    (by a labour ministerial candidate and a hairdresser, IIRC)

    There’s a stark difference between been pulled out of your car and beaten and being bored to death and being given a perm.

    Although the Perm could have longer lasting mental scarring.

    jonm81
    Member

    If you search around there’s dozens of videos from this group over the last couple of years. It really makes you wonder how this hasn’t happened to them before. I haven’t seen anything of what happened just before the RR video started but there are many incidences of them cutting up cars and slowing down quickly imediately infront of them as well as gesticulating and harrassing drivers for no apparent reason. It was only a matter of time really before one of them got creamed.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    First post on this thread – have been lurking. When I first saw this I thought idiot driver, poor bikers. Finding out the real circumstances I thought both were at fault, but with more information and on reflection I can’t say I wouldn’t do the same as the driver in those circumstances. Maybe he did have other options which he didn’t take, but in that situation he didn’t spot them – it’s hard to fault his actions in the situation he was faced with.

    I am really enjoying p8ddy’s posts though.

    p8ddy
    Member

    Scuzz…

    Cool story bro. What’s it got to do with this?!

    Try reading back the thread and you’ll see. If you’re to lazy to read I’m not going to sum up the thread.

    You still haven’t really explained how you’re supposed to avoid a bunch of bikers coming up behind you, boxing you in and brake checking you.

    Yes I have.

    Tip. Try reading the thread. However, for your benefit: he *could*, on finding himself amongst bikers (and they weren’t a bike gang fwiw), gently apply the brakes and get away from them. Oddly, like other drivers seem to have done.

    The riders were on an organised ride, directed by the police.

    And as far as I’m aware, decelerating to a stop would let the bikers carry on to their desired destination and made a rear end collision impossible.

    p8ddy
    Member

    Jonm81….

    I hate those clips. And the apparent delight people take in others being hurt. Not you btw, I mean the people posting comments on the YouTube clip.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    The riders were on an organised ride, directed by the police.

    Ah, so it was the police directing them to ride on pavements, filter between cars at highway speeds, cut up other road users etc. and it’s all their fault? This thread just keeps giving.

    jonm81
    Member

    The ride was not officialy organised and did not have authorisation from the police. The police chief is quoted in one of the interviews as stating that the first they knew about the ride was through social media.

    As I stated above I have been caught up in a biker rally/ride and trust me you dare not brake when you have a number of bikers sitting inches from your rear bumper. You can not speed up, nor slow down (other than very gradually through coasting in gear) or change lanes to get out the way as you are completely surrounded by motor bikes. There is nothing you can do other than wait from them all to pass hopefully without incident. It is terrifying.

    peterfile
    Member

    Oddly, like other drivers seem to have done.

    I wonder whether the Range Rover was singled out to some extent?

    Let’s be honest, as a biker, if you’re going to pick a vehicle to try to dominate, turn the tables a bit, a flash Range Rover would probably be high up your list. Still leaves the question of whether the RR had been driving like a muppet beforehand and bringing more unwanted attention.

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