Japanese whaling

Home Forum Chat Forum Japanese whaling

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 100 total)
  • Japanese whaling
  • zokes
    Member

    Obviously this story has had some coverage down here (but not enough IMO). Over the past few days it’s started to get pretty ugly down in the Southern Ocean, with the Japanese factory vessel ramming three Sea Shepherd ships, and curiously, their own tanker in the process. Today they apparently nearly sank one of the Sea Shepherd ships, and now have a huge naval icebreaker with three armed helicopters for reinforcements.

    Regardless of the whaling, the Japanese have a tanker which isn’t certified for work in ice, attempting to refuel the whaling ships with heavy fuel oil – something which is illegal below 60 degrees as any oil spill in the cold pristine wilderness would be impossible to clean up.

    Oh, and they’re hurling concussion grenades around near an oil tanker too.

    Thoughts?

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bymVeVK484&list=UURYjOhn_GeNtZjz4TY1OJEg&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssw3xG1wH1s&list=UURYjOhn_GeNtZjz4TY1OJEg&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

    rattrap
    Member

    Thoughts?

    Personally, I’d expect any ship to defend themselves from acts of piracy on the high seas – no different than what we’re seeing off the coast of Somalia really, is it? the only difference is their motivation, but thats down to international Whaling laws, and protest cannot be used as an excuse for piracy.

    higgo
    Member

    Regardless of the whaling….

    You can’t disregard something and then discuss the actions taken in response to protests about the thing you’re disregarding.

    It is all about the whaling.

    If there was no whaling (or whaling was less contentious) there would be no pushing and shoving and no grenades being thrown about.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Yeah saw the Sea Shepard in Hobart a while back with battle scars.

    Japan needs to think about this one a bit,
    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtgzQ-G33EQ[/video]
    Would suggest watching this too

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    I thought Japan had called it off after those vids first came out?

    Edit; looks like they just suspended it for a couple of days until the military arrived 🙁

    zokes
    Member

    Personally, I’d expect any ship to defend themselves from acts of piracy on the high seas

    Which acts would those be then?

    The hunting of whales in a designated sanctuary against the wishes of a sovereign state? Nope, that would be the Japanese.

    Is it the use of high pressure water cannons to attempt to flood ships’ engines and leave them stranded in teh Southern Ocean? Nope, again, that would be the Japanese.

    How about the use of sonic weapons and flash-bangs near an oil tanker? Nope, that’s the Japanese too.

    Deploying propellor-fouling equipment? The Japanese

    Carrying heavy fuel oil below 60S? Japanese. Doing it in a ship not rated for work in ice? Japanese again. Attempting to refuel below 60S? You guessed it – the Japanese.

    Then you have the deliberate ramming of three vessels and the (presumed accidental) ramming of the tanker. Yep, you guessed it – the Japanese.

    So just run that by me again – who’s doing the piracy?

    Premier Icon vinnyeh
    Subscriber

    Pretty controversial outfit.

    Looks like the whalers have notched it up a level to even things up.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Why shouldn’t we eat whales? If it can be demonstrated that the stocks can be fished sustainably, then I don’t see a problem. The issue is demonstrating sustainability, but as we harvest plenty other vertebrates without understanding their population dynamics fully, its hard to make a special case for whales.

    higgo
    Member

    So just run that by me again – who’s doing the piracy?

    One ship chugged out of port intent on getting in another ship’s way.
    Which one?

    zokes
    Member

    Why shouldn’t we eat whales? If it can be demonstrated that the stocks can be fished sustainably

    It can’t, mainly because they were decimated by everyone cashing in a few decades ago.

    Then there would be the method of their despatch – fancy an explosive harpoon to the back of your neck, but with the knowledge that it will take a few minutes for you to die?

    Nope, thought not.

    higgo
    Member

    Why shouldn’t we eat whales? If it can be demonstrated that the stocks can be fished sustainably, then I don’t see a problem.

    We eat mammals. We eat things from the sea.
    As long as we’re not eating too many of them, I don’t see anything wrong with eating mammals from the sea.

    zokes
    Member

    One ship chugged out of port intent on getting in another ship’s way.

    That would be the Sea Shepherd Ships. Now then, correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that getting in another ship’s way, especially when you’re a fraction of its size, is hardly an act of piracy.

    Especially if that ship is Australian flagged, and in Australian territorial waters, and the ship doing the ramming has been ordered to leave by the Australian Government.

    zokes
    Member

    As long as we’re not eating too many of them,

    And that would be the problem. That, and as I said, the method of their despatch.

    Oh, and the fact that commercial whaling is illegal.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Then there would be the method of their despatch – fancy an explosive harpoon to the back of your neck, but with the knowledge that it will take a few minutes for you to die?

    Nope, thought not.

    Do you drink milk?

    higgo
    Member

    I would suggest it is the Australian govt’s job to police its own seas if it has the balls to take on the Japanese.

    Why are they hiding behind the Sea Shepherd?

    CountZero
    Member

    Funny, where are Greenpeace these days? I guess waffling on about windfarms is less dangerous than directly confronting aggressive whalers… 🙄

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    zokes – Member
    As long as we’re not eating too many of them,
    And that would be the problem. That, and as I said, the method of their despatch.

    Oh, and the fact that commercial whaling is illegal.

    We don’y know what a sustainable catch is, but I’d be surprised if Japan was taking more than what is sustainable.

    Oh, and the fact that commercial whaling is illegal.

    I think you’ll find that’s covered (for right or wrong) under the for scientific use clause.

    TBH, it’s time the debate moved on – I guess the WDC are at least raising awareness. They just need to be careful how that awareness raising pans out.

    zokes
    Member

    Do you drink milk?

    Yes, usually from a small organic farm purchased at the local farmer’s market. Are they harpooning male dairy calfs now?

    I would suggest it is the Australian govt’s job to police its own seas if it has the balls to take on the Japanese.

    Why are they hiding behind the Sea Shepherd?

    That is a question that is being asked quite a lot here. Something to do with apparent issues of having a naval presence in the antarctic treaty area (but there’s already an armed Japanese vessel there), there being a court case due in the international courts some time next millennium, and the risk of it causing a ‘diplomatic incident’, I think.

    FuzzyWuzzy
    Member

    Whilst I’m anti-whaling and largely support most of the Sea Shepard stuff I don’t really agree it’s ramming if you you park you boat right in front of another thats going slowly and expect them just to stop and wait. OK it might be illegal under maritime law but I can see why the whalers kept going (it looks more like the ships kissed than rammed to…) and SS can’t be especially surprised by it. The times in the past where the whalers have deliberately altered course and rammed/attempted to ram are different and should have had consequences.
    It’s most the Australian government need to grow some balls and board, seize and impound the whaling ships when they break the terms of their licences. But ofc money talks and the Aussies aren’t going to risk upsetting the Japs.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Yes, usually from a small organic farm purchased at the local farmer’s market. Are they harpooning male dairy calfs now?

    Not the last time I looked, but you could argue that as an industry dairy is crueller than whaling.
    Personally, I’d take a few minutes of pain at the end of a free life versus being milked to within an inch of my life every day for a few years.

    YMMV

    Edit: removed the confrontational remark at the end for fear of ferrousness

    zokes
    Member

    It’s most the Australian government need to grow some balls and board, seize and impound the whaling ships when they break the terms of their licences. But ofc money talks and the Aussies aren’t going to risk upsetting the Japs.

    They certainly seem happy enough seizing illegal fishing boats and burning them. Not to mention illegal immigrants. Perhaps Sea Shepherd’s best hope is to plant some refugees on board one of the ‘research’ vessels. The Navy would be on to it in minutes in that case.

    YMMV, but don’t get upset when folk don’t automatically agree with your stance.

    I’m not. But as I said, I make decisions on the purchase of my food based on animal welfare and sustainability, so the milk thing is a bit of a straw man.

    Edit: removed the confrontational remark at the end for fear of ferrousness

    Edit: you didn’t remove it quick enough. Though I suspect I’m more carbonaceous than ferrous.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Subscriber

    We don’t know what a sustainable catch is, but I’d be surprised if Japan was taking more than what is sustainable.

    To me, the very idea that we, the Human race are deciding what is ‘sustainable’, in other words, how much we can plunder other species without letting them die out and therefore become useless to us, is what I find really, really abhorrent. We are a parasite…

    joao3v16
    Member

    Anyone know why the Japanese are being so arsey about the international whaling ban thingy and carrying on regardless?

    I could understand if whales were the only food available to you, but there always seems to be excellent choice in Japanese restaurants and hotels. I assume the locals also have massive supermarkets brimming with an unimaginable variety of stuff.

    zokes
    Member

    Anyone know why the Japanese are being so arsey about the international whaling ban thingy and carrying on regardless?

    Because they can, it seems.

    Oh, and there’s lots of money in it too…

    uwe-r
    Member

    I wonder what a Narwhal tastes like, got to be the closest thing to a unicorn you are going to get I would imagine?

    Premier Icon vinnyeh
    Subscriber

    Anyone know why the Japanese are being so arsey about the international whaling ban thingy and carrying on regardless?

    They’re not though, the catch is for scientific purposes, so they take only the 500 or so that they need for research each year, then onsell the meat rather than wasting it.

    The only countries now that defy the ban on commercial whaling are Iceland and Norway.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    I could understand if whales were the only food available to you, but there always seems to be excellent choice in Japanese restaurants and hotels. I assume the locals also have massive supermarkets brimming with an unimaginable variety of stuff.

    There’s plenty of evidence to suggest that demand is pretty low, with younger Japanese not very keen at all.
    It’s a cultural thing though innit.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    vinnyeh – Member

    Looks like the whalers have notched it up a level to even things up.

    That happened a while back tbh, there was lots of speculation that the Shonan Maru 2 had been refit purely as an escort boat (it didn’t have a harpoon mount). Don’t think there was ever any concensus on the sinking of the Ady Gill but the video did seem to show them turning into it immediately before the collision, and there was no question that they failed to offer assistance afterwards- in fact they were still spraying the boat with water cannons after the collision.

    The heavy fuel thing is interesting, there at least the whalers do seem to be totally in defiance of the rules of the area. I think most people accept that the “research” is bogus- they’re just researching how many whales you can eat.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    uwe-r – Member
    I wonder what a Narwhal tastes like, got to be the closest thing to a unicorn you are going to get I would imagine?
    POSTED 2 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

    I’d heard that findus lasagne was the nearest to unicorn actually.

    uwe-r
    Member

    I think most people accept that the “research” is bogus- they’re just researching how many whales you can eat.

    Man v’s Food, Christmas special?

    alex222
    Member

    Do you drink milk?

    Cows are bred by human for the sole purpose of providing us with food and milk. If we had not bred them that way the cow as we know it would not exist. Yes the milking regime may be considered cruel for the cow but the fact remains that is what they are bred for.

    Whales are not bred for human consumption. Some whales are endangered. Though it is not lear whether any of those whales that are endangered are currently being hunted.

    brakes
    Member

    I wonder what a Narwhal tastes like

    I find it tastes a bit like Kraken.

    uwe-r
    Member

    I’d quite like to try Kraken but it seems you can only get it through, the somewhat questionable, Eastern European suppliers. That and I have my doubts over sustainable fishing.

    Premier Icon Rusty Spanner
    Subscriber

    We don’y know what a sustainable catch is, but I’d be surprised if Japan was taking more than what is sustainable.

    Well, as a species we’ve not managed to achieve sustainability in any other field.

    I very much doubt we’re about to start now.

    zokes
    Member

    They’re not though, the catch is for scientific purposes, so they take only the 500 or so that they need for research each year, then onsell the meat rather than wasting it.

    I have actually found a paper by a Japanese research institute that obtained its samples from the Nisshin Maru:

    Habitat and prey selection of common minke, sei, and Bryde’s whales in mesoscale during summer in the subarctic and transition regions of the western North Pacific

    Their methods section is a bit vague though:

    We conducted surveys of oceanographic observations and whale prey species from on board the R/V Shunyo Maru (887 GT, National Research Institute of Far Seas Fisheries) in the western North Pacific from 21–25 July 2008 and 10–22 July 2009 (Fig. 1). These surveys were conducted concurrently with whale sighting and sampling surveys as part of JARPN II by researchers on the Nisshin Maru (7575 GT, Kyodo-Senpaku Co., Ltd.) and two sighting/sampling vessels (Yushin Maru No. 2 and No. 3, 742–743 GT, Kyodo-Senpaku Co., Ltd.) on the same survey track lines during daylight periods from 1 h after sunrise to 1 h before sunset. In 2008, we conducted a survey of Bryde’s whales within a survey area bounded by 35–39°30?N and 146–148°E, where the SST ranged from 17.5–27.6°C (Fig. 1). In 2009, surveys of common minke and sei whales were conducted within an area bounded by 43–45°N and 154°30?–157°30?E (SST 10.2–14.7°C), and 39–41°N and 156–160°E (SST 14.9–18.8°C), respectively (Fig. 1; Table 1). According to previous reports [1, 11, 12], these areas covered the southern part of the main distribution area of common minke and sei whales, as well as the main distribution area of Bryde’s whales, in terms of both latitudinal and SST ranges.

    It’s OK – they’re just “surveying” the whales, just like ornithologists survey birds with a shotgun prior to roasting them 😕

    IHN
    Member

    versus being milked to within an inch of my life every day for a few years.

    Having worked on a dairy farm, this is nonsense.

    edlong
    Member

    To me, the very idea that we, the Human race are deciding what is ‘sustainable’, in other words, how much we can plunder other species without letting them die out and therefore become useless to us, is what I find really, really abhorrent. We are a parasite…

    .. in which case, carry on, you’re only doing what comes naturally, surely?

    fourbanger
    Member

    Before we all sharpen our pitchforks and get all het up, has anyone here tasted whale? Tasty stuff. Can’t really fault them for hunting it.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    While we’re on the cows argument, If they want to eat Whales – and they clearly do – could they not farm them like we do Salmon. I mean, I know they’re pretty big and everything, but how many could you fit in that Olympic swimming pool in London? Quite a few, I’d imagine. Once you’ve kicked Tom Daley and Jo Brand out.

    Its a win/win when you think about it. just think of the difference to the trade deficit of flogging tinned Whale with ‘Made in Britain’ and a little union jack logo on the side. Also it’d save all this nonsense with harpoons and ramming each others boats, and stuff. You’d just be able to stand by the pool and shoot it through the head. Humanely of course.

    And we could put the mechanically recovered stuff into burgers and Lasagna, an save a few horses too. That’ll cheer up the tree-huggers as well, I’d have thought

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 100 total)

The topic ‘Japanese whaling’ is closed to new replies.