I have a lot of respect for Jan Heine, I really like his evidence based approach to solving problems and demystifying lay beliefs.

Apologies for an old article butbit is new to me. I am super keen to run all my bikes tubeless, which include a road bike a track bike and a commuter. I would love to run them at high pressures!! 😉

What do people think?

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/05/29/the-trouble-with-road-tubeless/

I’ve been using tubeless tyres on my commuter at ~70psi for 18 months with no problems.

Often run my road tubeless at 100 psi+. No issues.

If you read the article, Jan Heine says don’t run Compass tyres tubeless at more than 60psi.

Compass’s narrowest tubeless compatible tyre is 35c, so it’s a bit of a non-issue.

Edit: Ahem. I stopped reading too early. Sorry!

Based on this experience, we recommend: Do not exceed 60 psi (4 bar) when running Compass tires tubeless. If you need higher pressures, please use tubes. Since the problems with running tubeless tires at high pressures are not limited to Compass tires, I’d recommend this for all tubeless tires – and especially for high-performance tires that are relatively supple.

>If you read the article, Jan Heine says don’t run Compass tyres tubeless at more than 60psi.

I did read it, hence:

>Since the problems with running tubeless tires at high pressures are not limited to Compass tires, I’d recommend this for all tubeless tires 

I can confirm that WTB Vigilantes explode off a WTB i23 rim at a little over 80 psi with an ear drum shattering bang.
#stupidboy #paymoreattentiontowhatyouaredoing #whyingodsnamedidiinflateitthatmuch

Shermer, edited mine before I saw yours. one thousand apologies!

What do people think?

I run G-ones at 80 PSI and S-Ones at 100Psi (2 sets of Mavic wheels on my Tripster).

Couple of punctures fixed by the sealant. Not a problem in my experience.

Article should be “You can’t run some tubeless tyres above 60psi on some rims”.

Also

“100 psi was fine. 105 psi, no problem. A few more pump strokes, about 108 psi, and – bam! The tire blew off the rim. I was wearing ear protection, and there was no sealant inside the tire”

Well put some bloody sealant in then you twerp – it sticks the tyre to the rim! Duh.

(Just seen he has 131 comments on his overly long article, some saying just that)

Article should be “You can’t run some tubeless tyres about 60psi on some rims”.

^ that is the crux of it.

You can run tubeless tyres at high pressures IF the tyres and rim are a good match, if they’re not it can be problematic to say the least. I think the article is erring a bit too much on the side of caution, or could at least do with some more clarity.

or could at least do with some more clarity

If he hasn’t managed to get clarity in that many words, I doubt he ever will..! 😉

>Shermer, edited mine before I saw yours. one thousand apologies!

Haha no worries! 🙂

Pro One 25c and now Hutchinson Sector 28c on Stans Grail rims, both run at 80 psi for over 2 years with no problems. Only time they didn’t self seal was because the sealant had dried out – self sealed as soon as I topped it up.

> If he hasn’t managed to get clarity in that many words, I doubt he ever will..!

Yep, I don’t think he’ll be winning any awards for concise writing lol

>Article should be “You can’t run some tubeless tyres about 60psi on some rims”.

^ that is the crux of it.

You can run tubeless tyres at high pressures IF the tyres and rim are a good match,

I completely agree. So, I guess the million dollar question is which rims have a large enough bead seat diameter to safely run tubeless tyres at high pressure?Are there rims that are reliably exacting in their BSD or will there always be variations in the tolerance? And if there is, how do we know which ones?!?

I suppose the counterpoint to that is which tyres have a small enough bead diameter, but I change my tyres far more often than my rims, plus the bead will stretch a little!

Yep, 60psi is about when Stans reckon MTB rims will begin failing, but now that road tubeless is hitting the mainstream it’s reasonable to expect development of bead and rim technology to accommodate road usage and customary pressures.

Given the risk averse nature of the industry where wheel faults are concerned I’d be shocked if road tubeless was being pushed but incapable of running at normal pressures.

I run G-ones at 80 PSI

Why?

Also worth considering there is more to it than BSD.  There are whole areas of development in bead shape that will affect the suitability of a pairing.  WTB have adopted the square UST bead for their tyres and rims  which is a different shape to the bead Stans design their rims for. Stans don’t recommend WTB tyres as a result although many are happy to fit them…

There’s so much variation, between models from the same manufacturer, between production runs of the same model, between models of different ages, and also more to it that ‘just’ BSD; well ad seat profile, lips, ridges, and sidewall heights and profiles also can sway things one way or the other, so basically I think the only thing you can say with any certainty is:

“be careful”

And Jan has decided to put a number on how careful, a specific number on compass tyres, and rightly or wrongly, a general number extrapolated to others.

The danger, even on threads like this is when you start to list combinations that work, either anecdotally or properly tested, is that it only takes a small change in the spec or a normal variation to render the examples incorrect, and the person reading this thread in 3 month, 6 months or a years time may be getting bad advice, delivered with the best of intentions.

<div class=”bbcode-quote”>

I run G-ones at 80 PSI

</div>

> Why?

Just to prove Jan wrong.

Actually it’s “One”s I run at 100. And G-One Speed at 80 – on the road. 50-60 if offroad, like last weekend.
It’s, quite literally, how I roll.

Amedias +1

> It’s, quite literally, how I roll.

This is, quite literally, really funny lol

I think from what I’ve read about road tubeless…

1) It can wait until some standard is reached.

2) If I was to use it, I would make sure that tyres and rims were preferably from the same manufacturer, or at least UST.

Without checking, I’d guess UST’s Achilles heel of weight is going to be an even bigger issue for Road than it was for MTB. Mavic’s silly narrow rims and the overall system price probably aren’t as problematic.  By comparison, pretty much everything else is a bodge of greater or lesser degree.

With facetious mode firmly engaged, I’m just waiting for claims that an exploding tubeless tyre in a peloton pileup has taken someone’s face off …

of greater or lesser degree.

With facetious mode firmly engaged, I’m just waiting for claims that an exploding tubeless tyre in a peloton pileup has taken someone’s face off …

Taking your facetiousness too seriously, do any of the pros run anything but tubulars?

How does the sealant hold a puncture at high pressure on the road? Sort of surprised that works tbh on any thing bigger than a pinprick – I commute on tufo tubulars which are somewhat analogous (the inner tube is annealed to the tyre on tufos so it’s just like a rubber tube) with sealant in them. On occasion I’ve punctured, which has sealed, but won’t then take pressure greater than about 40 psi and the tyre is done.

Just about to run some pro ones on grails for the first time so I’ll guess I’ll see what it’s all about.

I think he is talking bollocks here:

If you are riding on gravel or rough stuff, tubeless eliminates pinch flats

Stick with tyres/rims that were designed to work together – such as Bontrager Affinity Comp rims and R2 TLR 22mm tyres. These are rated at 85-110 psi, and have never given me any problems.

Ive been running 100-110 in my Giant Gavias for a few thousand kms now. Both Giant and I would therefore agree that a 60 limit is balls.

How does the sealant hold a puncture at high pressure on the road?

Really well ime. I’ve had a fairly decent sized hole plugged by the Mavic sealant – it took a few rotations, while I got ahem, sprayed in the face with sealant, but only lost about 15-20 psi.

28mm Schwalbe One Evos at 90psi on ZTR Grails, no problems whatsoever.

Have run Schwalbe Ones and G One speeds on three different rims none of which were officially tubeless compatible. All run at 70 front and 80 rear no issues.

Also have Schwalbe Pro ones running 80 front and 90 rear and not died yet. That is on Chinese carbon rims.

Did change to Orange sealant as Stans struggled to seal above 40 psi.

As with previous posters, run my roaad tyres at about 80psi. Just commuted on the G One Speeds to remind me just how nice they are. And they are very nice indeed. I’ve also run regular ones and, of course Corsa Speeds.

I’d be wary of running track tyres tubeless though. Pressures are far away from the original technology, and I’d certainly only use tubeless rims AND tyres. Vittoria Corsa Speeds at 100 psi would be OK, but I run latex tubes and tyres at 120-140 psi on the track. And think of the sidewall loads.

If you read the article, Jan Heine says don’t run <strong class=”bbcode-strong”>Compass tyres tubeless at more than 60psi.

Compass’s narrowest tubeless compatible tyre is 35c, so it’s a bit of a non-issue.

The other point everybody including Jan seems to be missing here is that the hoop stress in a pressure vessel is directly proportional to the diameter. So everything else being equal a 25mm tyre at 84psi or a 20mm tyre at 105psi would be no more likely to fail than the 35mm tyre at 60psi (in fact those pressures for narrower tyres should be even higher than that as whilst the force pulling the tyre off is the same, the higher pressure results in the force locking the bead in place being higher).

Hence he’s wrong to suggest that the 60psi limit for Compass tyres necessarily applies to all other tyres, even if it might be valid for all other 35mm tyres.

I can confirm that non-tubeless 33.3 Jack Brown blue tyres will blow off an xm421 rim at 75psi. Inside my car.

I try these things so you don’t have to.

I’d be wary of running track tyres tubeless though. Pressures are far away from the original technology, and I’d certainly only use tubeless rims AND tyres. Vittoria Corsa Speeds at 100 psi would be OK, but I run latex tubes and tyres at 120-140 psi on the track. And think of the sidewall loads.

I’d also be wary of the possibility of spraying sealant everywhere, would dread to think of the commisaire’s reaction to that. I think track is one of the few places tubs are indisputably better as you can run higher pressures (180psi +) -and the surface is smooth enough that this really isn’t a disadvantage.

Can’t afford tubs though!